Carbuilder
Emira Fan
Not sure where you are getting this from. There are NO lemon laws in Canada.
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I’ve had enough, I’m selling it
- Thread starter koorby
- Start date
In the UK you could to use the distance selling regulations, as you bought online direct from Lotus. If the car then doesn’t meet what was advertised or isn’t of sufficient quality then you can reject for a full refund. From memory you’ve got 30 days after delivery.
California Lemon Law
The California Lemon Law (Civ. Code, § 1793.2 et seq.) protects you when your vehicle is defective and cannot be repaired after a “reasonable” number of attempts.
The Lemon Law applies to most new vehicles purchased or leased in California that are still under a manufacturer’s new-vehicle warranty. Full-time active-duty members of the Armed Forces stationed or residing in California at the time of purchase or lease are protected by the Lemon Law even if their vehicles were purchased or registered outside of California. The Lemon Law also applies to used vehicles when they are still under a manufacturer’s new car warranty. Any remaining time left on the warranty protects the car’s new owner.
Under the Lemon Law, the manufacturer may be required to buy back or replace your vehicle if, after a “reasonable” number of repair attempts, it cannot repair a problem that:
Is covered by the manufacturer’s new-vehicle warranty;
Substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle; and
Is not caused by unauthorized or unreasonable use of the vehicle after sale.
What is considered a “reasonable” number of repair attempts depends on many factors. While the following factors are not required, there is a rebuttable presumption that your vehicle is a lemon if:
The problem first occurred within 18 months of delivery or 18,000 miles (whichever comes first);
If required by the warranty or owner’s manual, you notified the manufacturer about the problem; and
You have taken the vehicle in for repair by the manufacturer or its agents:
Four or more times for the same problem and it still is not fixed, or
Two or more times for the same problem, if that problem is big enough to cause death or serious injury, and it still is not fixed, or
The vehicle has been out of service for repair for more than 30 days (the 30 days do not need to be in a row).
If your vehicle is a lemon, the manufacturer must promptly repurchase or replace it. You have the right to choose a refund instead of a replacement.
Lemon vehicles that are bought back by dealers and then resold must be identified as a “lemon law buyback” and have a “lemon” sticker on their door. When lemon buybacks are not properly disclosed and sold “as is,” the buyer may still have rights under the Lemon Law.
The California Lemon Law (Civ. Code, § 1793.2 et seq.) protects you when your vehicle is defective and cannot be repaired after a “reasonable” number of attempts.
The Lemon Law applies to most new vehicles purchased or leased in California that are still under a manufacturer’s new-vehicle warranty. Full-time active-duty members of the Armed Forces stationed or residing in California at the time of purchase or lease are protected by the Lemon Law even if their vehicles were purchased or registered outside of California. The Lemon Law also applies to used vehicles when they are still under a manufacturer’s new car warranty. Any remaining time left on the warranty protects the car’s new owner.
Under the Lemon Law, the manufacturer may be required to buy back or replace your vehicle if, after a “reasonable” number of repair attempts, it cannot repair a problem that:
Is covered by the manufacturer’s new-vehicle warranty;
Substantially impairs the use, value, or safety of the vehicle; and
Is not caused by unauthorized or unreasonable use of the vehicle after sale.
What is considered a “reasonable” number of repair attempts depends on many factors. While the following factors are not required, there is a rebuttable presumption that your vehicle is a lemon if:
The problem first occurred within 18 months of delivery or 18,000 miles (whichever comes first);
If required by the warranty or owner’s manual, you notified the manufacturer about the problem; and
You have taken the vehicle in for repair by the manufacturer or its agents:
Four or more times for the same problem and it still is not fixed, or
Two or more times for the same problem, if that problem is big enough to cause death or serious injury, and it still is not fixed, or
The vehicle has been out of service for repair for more than 30 days (the 30 days do not need to be in a row).
If your vehicle is a lemon, the manufacturer must promptly repurchase or replace it. You have the right to choose a refund instead of a replacement.
Lemon vehicles that are bought back by dealers and then resold must be identified as a “lemon law buyback” and have a “lemon” sticker on their door. When lemon buybacks are not properly disclosed and sold “as is,” the buyer may still have rights under the Lemon Law.
EyeFour Eemeerah!
Emira Fan
Can’t believe we’ve gotten to the point of pointing out the requirements of the lemon law, for a car that hasn’t even landed on the U.S. yet!!! Curiously enough, the dealer called to finalize the build for the I4. “Has to be in by tomorrow.” I think the horses are out of the gate and Lotus fears a mass exodus after the reviews and repair returns.
LOL this is too funny. You are correct - why the hell are we discussing Lemon Laws in USA as no one in NA has a fricking car yet.
So when we eventually (soooon) take delivery of our cars in NA be sure to put in writing to the dealership.... that you have researched the Lemon Law in your state. And that if anything goes wrong 3 times you will be seeking a full refund.
Or even better yet, fill your car with Lemons and drop it off in the dealer show room.
Think i will send my dealership a note now on thismatter.
I'm no expert, but this may be the worst used car advertisement I've seen.
Kidding aside, I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with the car.
LOL this is too funny. You are correct - why the hell are we discussing Lemon Laws in USA as no one in NA has a fricking car yet.
So when we eventually (soooon) take delivery of our cars in NA be sure to put in writing to the dealership.... that you have researched the Lemon Law in your state. And that if anything goes wrong 3 times you will be seeking a full refund.
Or even better yet, fill your car with Lemons and drop it off in the dealer show room.
Think i will send my dealership a note now on thismatter.
Just the facts... I have been in since day 1. Maybe that is why mine is HY. I have not wavered since placing my deposit, but 30 days of non-use due to issues...possible lemon. I suppose we all have the right on how we burn our own $100+k.
Because it seems necessary to reinforce to Lotus, who do read this forum, that it won't be a smart or sustainable business decision to try to sell cars here that don't meet a specific minimum standard of functional reliability and prompt serviceability. We literally have a minimum standard for what counts as a saleable product here, and the Lemon Law forced buyback system is what defines the bright line.
I fully agree with what you are saying. So I very much hope they get their s$&t together before any cars get shipped. But getting the car to function correctly seems to be a problem that is taking way too long to correct.
I however still want my car and will deal with any problems - issues when and if they happen.
The dealer my Evora goes to have been great in taking care of it. So I’m very confident that any problems that may happen with the Emira they will do their best to keep all Lotus owners happy
Related but not related, I have a new 2023 Supra from a 21 due to the Lemon Law in my state. I paid nothing extra for this. Just had to wait for them to source me a new car.
kratedisease
Emira Fanatic
Yah , well , always good to get some facts about Lemon Law since many new car platforms from every manufacturer tend to have lots of bugs the first year.
Besides..... MOST IMPORTANTLY, knowledge of these Lemon Laws should ONLY give depositors of Emira much MORE CONFIDENCE in their purchase, knowing that they can get 100% refunded if their car is problematic.
your Emira is a unreliable mess ? NO worries, you get 100% back and your sales taxes paid refunded, even if the car has 10,000 miles on the odometer.
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I do think we should very carefully evaluate the text of the US market warranty from Lotus when it does arrive. With the strong consumer protections we have in the US, they might have made some revisions to reduce their exposure to certain kinds of Lemon Law claims.
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kratedisease
Emira Fanatic
Side note, manufacturers HATE lemon law'ing a car because they take a huge loss on each one.
They have to refund the full purchase price, not just the MSRP window sticker, but also refund any additional premiums that the dealer added to the total price. Price refunded is what is on the sales receipt , not window sticker. They then have to label the title as a Lemon and then auction off the car on the used market at a huge loss usually $10k below market price, add in $1000 attorney fees and these lemons can put a small manufacturer out of business.
The losses can easily add up to $10,000 loss on each Lemon.
They have to refund the full purchase price, not just the MSRP window sticker, but also refund any additional premiums that the dealer added to the total price. Price refunded is what is on the sales receipt , not window sticker. They then have to label the title as a Lemon and then auction off the car on the used market at a huge loss usually $10k below market price, add in $1000 attorney fees and these lemons can put a small manufacturer out of business.
The losses can easily add up to $10,000 loss on each Lemon.
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kratedisease
Emira Fanatic
They can NOT and NEVER wiggle out of any Lemon Law claims. It is the law of the land. The warranty MUST also comply with state law, that is why warranties have additional subtext( addendums) for each state to meet each state compliance.
Manufacturers do NOT just wave a white flag and lemon law a car unless it is irrefutable.
Borderline cases get rejected, ( like a radio that never works or a trunk that leaks water) and the its the manufacturer who determines if they will accept a claim under the Lemon law.
repairs that prevent you from using the car qualify. like ....windshield wipers, engine, transmission, steering, ABS, brakes, etc.
If the car is in the shop waiting for a part to fix the engine or transmission or even the wipers, that time it is in the shop simply waiting for the part to arrive qualifies for the 30 day rule. So if you are waiting for a wiper motor or wiper relay, MAKE SURE that you tell /FORCE the dealer to keep the car, tell them that you are too afraid to use the car until the part arrives....and tell them to keep it in their shop until repaired. This way you are accumulating days towards the 30 day repair rule to qualify, and the days parked in the dealer repair garage qualify while the dealer is waiting on a part to arrive. Those days waiting on a part are counted towards the 30 day rule and can not be refuted on a lemon law claim.
The key is to keep the car in the repair shop for as long as you can, even if that means repeatedly dropping off the car as much as possible to meet the 30 day "out of service" repair rule.
You will not get a lemon law approval for chronic issues like a radio or car play problem, or paint and/or fit and finish issue or something along those lines
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I guess my point is that lemon law is about compliance with the warranty, and there's no strict legal requirement that they apply a warranty at all except on emissions components. Which is why I said we should look at the US warranty very carefully when they do finally start deliveries. The UK warranty is quite generous with unlimited mileage, the US warranty was already restricted by mileage by comparison. Let's see what else might change.
[edit] How interesting, the warranty information is no longer on the US site. It does still appear on the UK site and references a US new car warranty of 3y / 36k mi, but the information no longer appears on the US website. I wonder
Lotus Cars Official Site
www.lotuscars.com
kratedisease
Emira Fanatic
Nope, it has really not much to do with or related to the warranty.
The failure of any part or component that prevents you from using the car for 30 days TOTAL due to the car being in the shop for that repair for a total of 30 days in total, or more than 3 attempts by the dealer to repair the same issue covered under the warranty qualifies as lemon law.
The lemon law is about you the owner being unable to use the car as intended because the manufacturer is either unable to or is having difficulty in repairing your car. If your dealer is waiting on a brake caliper from the UK and your car is at the dealer waiting for that part to arrive, and its been for 30 days and the part is still on back order.......you qualify and get 100% refund of price paid. Not disputable. REFUNDED.
Too bad LOTUS/Geely.
It s about loss of use of the car due to chronic or multiple repairs.
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I hear what you are saying, but it still hinges on the repair being a warranty-covered thing. If it's a customer pay repair and also off the road, they aren't liable.
Of course what I'm suggesting would require Lotus to utterly and willfully screw their US buyers on warranty terms compared to the rest of the world. But the way I look at it, they've openly and willfully lied to us for 2 straight years about when they were going to homologate the car for US sale and then start building and shipping them, so I've stopped assuming good intent. They ground away all the benefit of the doubt along the way.
Captain.Kirk
Emira Fanatic
In Canada they don’t call them Lemon Laws, it’s called CAMVAP (Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan).
Lotustoronto
Emira Addict
Which is paid for by automotive companies, and the company has to opt into it. Lotus is not apart of it and therefore wouldn't qualify. Unfortunately Canada does not have the strict lemon US laws. Wish we did.
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