I don't get the I4 - what is the target audience?

[EmirOfDenmark]

Firstly, apologies for the I4 passionate owners, I am sure you will enjoy your cars. However, I am confused why this car was made by Lotus. Namely:
With the V6, manual, Lotus hit the soft spot of "the drivers". For us, that care about the driving experience above all, they made a new, great looking car, that sounds great, has an amazing chassis, drives beautifully, hydraulic steering and has a manual transmission. That's bull's eye.
The I4, while I am sure that engine is great, does not produce the same engaging sound (from what I read in the reviews), has a automatic transmission, and the hydraulic steering is softened. What is the target audience here? Because if you are looking for a good looking car with DCT, and soft steering, there are other options that are perhaps better. With the V6 manual, that is THE car to get if you are into manual gear engaging cars. Can you help me understand?

 

[meccanisti]

Emissions. V6 has huge luxury tax in some markets.

 

[simonb]

If you wanted the joys of a manual, why would you choose a cable operated remote controlled box in a mid engined car
If you want a pure engine, then go high tuned normally aspirated
The i4 should have been the zenith of what ICE has become, but as neither engine nor box seem as good as those same items in an A45AMG I do wonder what is achieved

 

[EmirOfDenmark]

If you wanted the joys of a manual, why would you choose a cable operated remote controlled box in a mid engined car
If you want a pure engine, then go high tuned normally aspirated
The i4 should have been the zenith of what ICE has become, but as neither engine nor box seem as good as those same items in an A45AMG I do wonder what is achieved

To your first question - because it is fun. A lot of fun for me. And I drove a lot of other cars to compare. This one was the most fun. Don't care if it is cable operated or not. Makes me laugh out loud when I drive it. That's the ultimate argument. For me. On the second point, even if they nailed the execution of it, there is nothing special about it IMO. It feels like a "us too" from Lotus. So, I am struggling to understand the reason to build that car. I think the previous emissions argument makes sense, commercially.

 

[Tokion]

Kjære EmirOfDenmark

It should be very clear from the Harry & Charlie review what usage, and what type of user, fits for each version of the car. Personally I live in a large, congested metropolitan city, and my age is close to 70, so my choice is the I4 and I am sure that I will enjoy it.

As far as Lotus is concerned; the Toyota 3.5 liter 2GR-FE engine is nearly out of production, and it will not be able to clear upcoming emission regulations. The AMG M139 will last a few years longer, and can also be developed a bit more over time. Just look at what the Brabus B45 can do ;-)

When the Emira V6 was first delivered, there was also many “issues” that needed to be fixed (still going on). There is no reason why the I4 also will have to go through a period of “issues”; many that can be taken care of in software updates. There is no reason to only focus on the negative comments in the reviews. I am confident that the i4 will be fine after a couple of updates.

It is totally fine that you, and many others in your situation prefer the V6 cars. You seem to already have one and that you enjoy it.

I had many manual transmission cars, including sports cars in my lifetime, and if I lived in a more rural or less populated area, I may also have chosen the manual V6. (I personally have two straight-six, twin turbo cars at the moment.)

The next sportscar from Lotus after Emira will be “Type 135” which will be fully electric. I have personally driven the Lotus-based Tesla Roadster S which was one of my first electric car experiences. I also drove the Opel Speedster with 4-cylinder normal aspiration engine and manual transmission (which to me was the most enjoyable “Elise” experience, and one of the best car experiences ever, despite of the small horsepower and limited engine sound; but definitely number one in “lightweight”), as well as the regular Elise with Toyota 2ZZ Turbo which was also fine.

Each version has its merits. To me the Emira V6 is a bit too loud, and I don’t want to sit in Metropolitan congestion clutching thousands of times getting nowhere.

I hope this helps?

By the way:

What is the total cost, including taxes, in Euro currency for the Emira V6 FE, and also the Emira I4 FE, in Denmark I think you have one of the highest car taxes in the world, so I am curious about the price difference between the two versions.

Med vennlig hilsen.

 

[EmirOfDenmark]

Kjære EmirOfDenmark

It should be very clear from the Harry & Charlie review what usage, and what type of user, fits for each version of the car. Personally I live in a large, congested metropolitan city, and my age is close to 70, so my choice is the I4 and I am sure that I will enjoy it.

As far as Lotus is concerned; the Toyota 3.5 liter 2GR-FE is nearly out of production, and it will not be able to clear upcoming emission regulations. The AMG M139 will last a few years longer, and can also be developed a bit more over time. Just look at what the Brabus B45 can do ;-)

When the Emira V6 was first delivered, there was also many “issues” that needed to be fixed (still going on). There is no reason why the I4 also will have to go through a period of “issues”; many that can be taken care of in software updates. There is no reason to only focus on the negative comments in the reviews. I am confident that the i4 will be fine after a couple of updates.

It is totally fine that you, and many others in your situation prefer the V6 cars. You seem to already have one and that you enjoy it.

I had many manual transmission cars, including sports cars in my lifetime, and if I lived in a more rural or less populated area, I may also have chosen the manual V6. (I personally have two straight-six, twin turbo cars at the moment.)

But this is not true for everyone.

The next sportscar from Lotus after Emira will be “Type 135” which will be fully electric. I have personally driven the Lotus-based Tesla Roadster S which was one of my first electric car experiences. I also drove the Opel Speedster with 4-cylinder normal aspiration engine and manual transmission (which to me was the most enjoyable “Elise” experience, and one of the best car experiences ever, despite of the small horsepower and limited engine sound; but definitely number one in “lightweight”), as well as the regular Elise with Toyota 2ZZ Turbo which was also fine.

Each car had its merit. To me the Emira V6 is a bit too loud, and I don’t want to sit in Metropolitan congestion clutching thousands of time getting nowhere.

I hope this helps?

By the way:

What is the total cost, including taxes, in Euro currency for the Emira V6 FE, and also the Emira I4 FE, in Denmark I think you have one of the highest car taxes in the world, so I am curious about the price difference between the two versions.

Med vennlig hilsen.

Hi Tokion,

Thank you for a very clear and thoughtful reply. I understand your reasoning. At some point, you just want a great looking car, with the convenience of daily driving, in metro areas, and a more modern engine that is built on modern day standards. To have that, you are willing to give up the louder engine and more engaged manual. Makes sense.

To be clear, I was asking a generic, product placement and differentiation question. If you are in the spirited driving, 3rd car weekender category, the V6 manual stands tall if not well above those crouds. If you're looking for livable daily driver sports cars, the differentiator between the I4 and the competition is less. All of a sudden, many options open up. I guess it is a concern of dilution of brand. Eletre - fastest all electric SUV, Evija - fastest all electric production super car, Emira V6 - the other direction, not the fastest, but for the classic drivers. Wow, that's a line up. That's a Lotus to fall in love with. Then Emira I4 - for everyone else. That's the part where I think Lotus can come across as non differentiated.

But - take no judgement from this, I am sure the I4 is great, and that people that get it will love it just the same. And, I am not claiming "V6 is better", that is a personal subjective point. The objective question is "who does Lotus see as the target market, and why do they see they have the right to win that market with the I4?", which I am a bit clearer from your response. thank you.

As for car prices in Denmark, we don't talk about that. 150% registration fee plus 25% moms (VAT). Let's say, we appreciate our cars a bit more .

 

[Tokion]

To be clear, I was asking a generic, product placement and differentiation question. If you are in the spirited driving, 3rd car weekender category, the V6 manual stands tall if not well above those crouds. If you're looking for livable daily driver sports cars, the differentiator between the I4 and the competition is less. All of a sudden, many options open up. I guess it is a concern of dilution of brand. Eletre - fastest all electric SUV, Evija - fastest all electric production super car, Emira V6 - the other direction, not the fastest, but for the classic drivers. Wow, that's a line up. That's a Lotus to fall in love with. Then Emira I4 - for everyone else. That's the part where I think Lotus can come across as non differentiated.

EmirOfDenmsrk

You seem to put Eletre, Evija, and Emira V6 in your category “Lotus to fall in love with” and the Emira i4 in a separate category “For everyone else”. I simply need to make clear that I do not agree with this, and that I actually anticipate that I both will “fall in love with”, and truly enjoy, my Emira i4 both when I drive it through the city, on country roads, and on a track (which I intend to do as well.）From the way I interpret the reviews, I think it will be (to me) an exciting and thrilling car

I have chosen the sports suspension, but the Goodyear Eagle F1 tires (since we have a fair bit of rain with slippery roads).

Thanks for the reply regarding car taxes in Denmark. I grew up next to you (towards the north). I was mostly interested in whether the 2 liter 360 hp car with less emissions would be taxed differently from the 3.5 liter 400 Hp car with more emissions? Luckily where I am (Japan) we have very low car taxes.

 

[EmirOfDenmark]

EmirOfDenmsrk

You seem to put Eletre, Evija, and Emira V6 in your category “Lotus to fall in love with” and the Emira i4 in a separate category “For everyone else”. I simply need to make clear that I do not agree with this, and that I actually anticipate that I both will “fall in love with”, and truly enjoy, my Emira i4 both when I drive it through the city, on country roads, and on a track (which I intend to do as well.）From the way I interpret the reviews, I think it will be (to me) an exciting a thrilling car

I have chosen the sports suspension, but the Goodyear Eagle F1 tires (since we have a fair bit of rain with slippery roads).

Thanks for the reply regarding car taxes in Denmark. I grew up next to you (towards the north). I was mostly interested in whether the 2 liter 360 hp car with less emissions would be taxed differently from the 3.5 liter 400 Hp car with more emissions? Luckily where I am (Japan) we have very low car taxes.

You are right to correct me. That is a subjective statement what one loves. You should look forward to the I4 - I am sure it will be amazing for you and that you will love it dearly.

 

[TomE]

The i4 on the road cost is 20-40k cheaper in several key markets due to emissions taxes.

Lotus judged that meant the i4 would be more competitive in those markets. The looks, ride and handling and interior are basically the same as the V6. It’s only the sound and shifting that are different (and fuel consumption and emissions) and for a lot of people that’s not an issue.

Also, as others have noted, the V6 wouldn’t meet the EU emissions changes that were expected to come in 2025-26 when the Emira was launched.

 

[kitkat]

Once upon a time long long ago (when the Emira was first announced) I had visions of owning an engaging, affordable and beautiful sports car. Something I could drive on a daily basis.

I was sold on the m139 because it was the latest and greatest from AMG at the time. It could also be easily tuned with some software and a couple videos existed of 500hp wagons.

I was told Lotus had a new factory with genuine craftsmen, magic paint booths, and the purse of a giant to help them deliver all of this in a timely manner with the reliability of a born again sports manufacturer making their last hurrah to gasoline.

The AMG powered Emira made a whole lot of sense from this naive perspective. But it quickly started to become obvious that the new Lotus was basically just the same as the old Lotus. The car would constantly have some issues and I wasn’t confident electronics and programming were Lotus’ forte. This meant that tuning the Emira was out of the question unless I wanted to void the warranty.

This was all pretty obvious really early on and I managed to switch to the v6 manual camp just as early. Multiple delays, price hikes increases, and thousands of posts later I’m still clinging on — and I honestly can’t blame anyone for still clinging onto the dream of the AMG Emira.

 

[Eagle7]

When Lotus first announced the Emira 2 years ago, Matt said the reason for the i4 was because at that time they were only going to be able to use the V6 for 5 years due to upcoming regulations, and they wanted to keep producing the Emira until 2030 I believe it was. Those regulation deadlines have changed since then (pushed back), and Toyota has also announced since then that they're not switching everything over to electric. They're going to continue to make ICE cars (and engines).

There may still be changes to the regulation deadlines as it becomes steadily clearer that the demands were too ambitious. Gordon Murray indicated in an interview that concessions have already been made for low-volume producers, and that may change enough to allow Lotus to keep using the V6 awhile longer, which they didn't know and couldn't have anticipated when they were first making their plans. Low volume I believe will be something around under 500 cars a year, which would work nicely for the V6.

All kinds of things seem to be changing the future Matt and his team thought they were going to be dealing with when they had to make their plans a few years ago. The i4 will help with their fleet average for emissions for the next few years until the Type 135 goes into production, then that may help extend the usability of the V6.

 

[EmirOfDenmark]

When Lotus first announced the Emira 2 years ago, Matt said the reason for the i4 was because at that time they were only going to be able to use the V6 for 5 years due to upcoming regulations, and they wanted to keep producing the Emira until 2030 I believe it was. Those regulation deadlines have changed since then (pushed back), and Toyota has also announced since then that they're not switching everything over to electric. They're going to continue to make ICE cars (and engines).

There may still be changes to the regulation deadlines as it becomes steadily clearer that the demands were too ambitious. Gordon Murray indicated in an interview that concessions have already been made for low-volume producers, and that may change enough to allow Lotus to keep using the V6 awhile longer, which they didn't know and couldn't have anticipated when they were first making their plans. Low volume I believe will be something around under 500 cars a year, which would work nicely for the V6.

All kinds of things seem to be changing the future Matt and his team thought they were going to be dealing with when they had to make their plans a few years ago. The i4 will help with their fleet average for emissions for the next few years until the Type 135 goes into production, then that may help extend the usability of the V6.

Aha! That makes good business sense. Got it. Thanks!

 

[EmirOfDenmark]

Once upon a time long long ago (when the Emira was first announced) I had visions of owning an engaging, affordable and beautiful sports car. Something I could drive on a daily basis.

I was sold on the m139 because it was the latest and greatest from AMG at the time. It could also be easily tuned with some software and a couple videos existed of 500hp wagons.

I was told Lotus had a new factory with genuine craftsmen, magic paint booths, and the purse of a giant to help them deliver all of this in a timely manner with the reliability of a born again sports manufacturer making their last hurrah to gasoline.

The AMG powered Emira made a whole lot of sense from this naive perspective. But it quickly started to become obvious that the new Lotus was basically just the same as the old Lotus. The car would constantly have some issues and I wasn’t confident electronics and programming were Lotus’ forte. This meant that tuning the Emira was out of the question unless I wanted to void the warranty.

This was all pretty obvious really early on and I managed to switch to the v6 manual camp just as early. Multiple delays, price hikes increases, and thousands of posts later I’m still clinging on — and I honestly can’t blame anyone for still clinging onto the dream of the AMG Emira.

When you get your V6, you’ll love it

 

[EyeFour Eemeerah!]

I know I for one do not need another car to have the engagement of manual. Part of our current line up consists of a manual 718 GT4, and a manual ND2 Miata. I would consider the Miata a more engaging and grin invoking car than the V6 Emira, for the low low price of 35K USD. Naturally aspirate, rear wheel drive, sexy sculpted good looks, go kart handling, kinematic posture control, LSD, 40 mpg…… coupled of course with the fact that it is retractable fastback, I think you would be hard pressed to find a naysayer.
I want a slick car with super car good looks, separate from the daily mundane of the BMWs, Audis and god awfully gaudy MBs, which all members of my family will be able to drive without fear of over revs, burnt clutches, etc. The fact that this was to be a collab with AMG, was exciting from the outset. We all get the tried (tired) and true Toyota engine is reliable and the safe bet, but once the bumps are worked out of this newlywed marriage, there will be only one standing. I look forward to daily driving the I4 Emira, and while it will NOT be convenient in terms of maintenance and dealer services visits, it’s something I accept and would need to accept even with the V6 iteration. I’ll be able to zip along unfettered and let the engine/tranny think for me, and won’t need to consider whether I’ll hit rush hour traffic, in my deliberation of whether to take one of the manual cars out. A seat for every a$$, and sometimes you just want the car to take care of you!!

 

[EmirOfDenmark]

I know I for one do not need another car to have the engagement of manual. Part of our current line up consists of a manual 718 GT4, and a manual ND2 Miata. I would consider the Miata a more engaging and grin invoking car than the V6 Emira, for the low low price of 35K USD. Naturally aspirate, rear wheel drive, sexy sculpted good looks, go kart handling, kinematic posture control, LSD, 40 mpg…… coupled of course with the fact that it is retractable fastback, I think you would be hard pressed to find a naysayer.
I want a slick car with super car good looks, separate from the daily mundane of the BMWs, Audis and god awfully gaudy MBs, which all members of my family will be able to drive without fear of over revs, burnt clutches, etc. The fact that this was to be a collab with AMG, was exciting from the outset. We all get the tried (tired) and true Toyota engine is reliable and the safe bet, but once the bumps are worked out of this newlywed marriage, there will be only one standing. I look forward to daily driving the I4 Emira, and while it will NOT be convenient in terms of maintenance and dealer services visits, it’s something I accept and would need to accept even with the V6 iteration. I’ll be able to zip along unfettered and let the engine/tranny think for me, and won’t need to consider whether I’ll hit rush hour traffic, in my deliberation of whether to take one of the manual cars out. A seat for every a$$, and sometimes you just want the car to take care of you!!

Got it. So, for you, it is the affordable super car looks to add to the stable in addition to the engaging manuals you already have.

 

[Porter]

Personally, if I wanted a daily driver sport coupe with a 4cyl engine and a great automatic gearbox, I would have bought a BMW 230i. Or with a civilized but rapid 6cyl, the M240i.

The daily driver thing takes Lotus completely out of consideration for me. I need my daily driver to be reliable. And I mean that in the sense that it shouldn't need a CTEK charger hooked up 24/7 just to be able to trust that it will start in the morning. Lotus simply hasn't delivered anything that can be trusted to work consistently for years on end without special accommodation by the owner. So for me it will always be a 3rd car, not a 1st car.

 

[lynchy73]

I live in China, the V6 MT was a 30% premium over the I4 (when it was offered for a short period of time). The I4 price stacks up very well here, the V6 is getting towards 992 money. You also were not able to spec the V6, just select 1 of 4 colours. The I4 in China is supposed to be 400bhp. That and my wife isn’t comfortable with a manual so I’m fine with the I4. For sure the V6 sounds great and all the rest of it, but the I4 looks just as amazing, will be as fast or likely faster than the V6 and apparently handles a bit sweeter too.

I have a Skyline GTR back in the UK, and wouldn’t mind a bit of turbo nutter action in my Emira. It’s definitely gonna sound better than my current Tesla Model 3 Performance

 

[GetawayDriving]

Frankly China (and other places with emissions standards that either tax or outright prohibit the v6) and women. Lotus has been pretty open about wanted to appeal more to women. You can also see it in their advertising campaign.

 

[Adam Brouillard]

For me, a manually operated clutch detracts from the driving experience. In my mind, the driving experience is about the analog control of the car through the steering, throttle and brakes. Not about having analog control of the connection between the engine and transmission. If I need a gear change, I want it to happen as quickly and smoothly as possible. A paddle shift DCT seems to be one of the best solutions for this and is why basically every modern racecar uses it. Plus you then can switch to automatic mode when you want.

In my opinion, the Emira doesn't have any real competitors because it looks better than anything less than 200k. Plus, it's a Lotus, which is cool.

 

[lynchy73]

Frankly China (and other places with emissions standards that either tax or outright prohibit the v6) and women. Lotus has been pretty open about wanted to appeal more to women. You can also see it in their advertising campaign.

In China it’s actually about the engine capacity more than emissions. There is additional import taxes the larger the capacity, they don’t care about NA, Turbo or the power level. I looked at the figures, the additional tax going from 2.0 to 3.5 is at least 20% or more of that 30% additional cost. There are new emissions standards coming in, but so far as I understand it, they are standards that must be met, rather than additional taxes you have to pay.