If the 400bhp V6 is not enough, which engine would be a good replacement?

[richbrown]

Christ... I wish I was well-off enough to complain for days on end about how underwhelming the Emira is, but insist on buying one anyway / go back to driving my Ferrari.

I can imagine it’s a hard life. If it’s that flawed and underwhelming by a mass produced BMW or Porsche! We are Lotus fans on this forum not detractors

 

[PaulP]

I’m a fan of many things but never a fan boi.

Used apple computers for 30 years but still diss them when they do something stupid like deleting magsafe or the headphone jack.

Buy BMW but hate the new front End, looks like shit

PLanning a lotus and am a fan, but Emira is underpowered - who releases an updated car with less horsepower than the old version? No car manufacturer I’ve ever seen (not porsche, not BMW, not mercedes….)

Truth is truth. Don’t label those who don’t drink the coolaid as “detractors” - those kinda forums suck.

 

[Pegasi]

PLanning a lotus and am a fan, but Emira is underpowered - who releases an updated car with less horsepower than the old version? No car manufacturer I’ve ever seen (not porsche, not BMW, not mercedes….)

During this debate I keep asking myself the same question, is an Emira an updated Evora? I didn't think it was. My understanding was that the Emira is a car with less compromises and can be daily driven. I didn't think it was an updated Evora, Elise, Exige. When the 718 came out it didn't have more HP than a 911 but isn't it lighter and more hard core? I thought it was supposed to be a small more comprised sports car than a 911. Lotus has gone in the other direction, they have gone bigger, heavier, and more luxurious.

I thought Lotus has been very clear that the vision for this car was worldwide and more mass appeal than other previous sports cars they built, not an evolution of speed and power. Am I wrong here?

 

[TXEMIRA]

Emira Horsepower for $500.

None of this.

What is what matters?

999/1,000* people on this very forum couldn’t tell, without a dyno, the difference between 400 and 430 horse.

Then, even if it was 400 or 430, which of the 999 will stick the tape to the window to prove it?

Let’s say it’s more or less horsepower or more or less fuel efficient or more or less (insert stat here), none of it matters as long as it’s close enough that we can’t really tell the diffs.

#ForTheDifference

*no offense and if it’s 990/1,000 the main point stands

 

[xen]

Emira Horsepower for $500.

None of this.

What is what matters?

999/1,000* people on this very forum couldn’t tell, without a dyno, the difference between 400 and 430 horse.

Then, even if it was 400 or 430, which of the 999 will stick the tape to the window to prove it?

Let’s say it’s more or less horsepower or more or less fuel efficient or more or less (insert stat here), none of it matters as long as it’s close enough that we can’t really tell the diffs.

#ForTheDifference

*no offense and if it’s 990/1,000 the main point stands

Slippery slope here. By the same token ‘we’ couldn’t tell the difference between 400 and 370bhp…

Anyway, it’s not just the power figure though, it’s the combination of power and weight. I can certainly feel an extra 50 - 100Kg in a car.

Ultimately yes, 400bhp is ‘fine’ for the road and enough to give a good sports car experience. Thing is Lotus left so much on the table with what this could have been, it is their last ICE after all, it should be absolutely fantastic. The car is beautiful, the chassis (bound to be) amazing, steering hydraulic…why use 15 year old parts.

I expect they will address this further down the line. A stripped out i4 pushing out circa 500bhp as the real last ICE car is what I’m hoping for and what, in my opinion at least, the Emira deserves to be.

Also for context, once again for those saying any more than 400bhp is silly…this same company makes a 2,000bhp car…for the road.

 

[daveparky84]

400 is enough for me personally but I'm sure Komo-tec or someone will be offering chips and engine upgrades for those who want 450-500. I actually like driving more of a "medium-fast" on weekends through the hills.. I rarely hammer it 100% for longer than a handful of corners anyway.

 

[Eagle7]

I'm guessing the reason why they stayed with the V6 is they wanted a setup with a manual trans, and that was the only way they could reasonably get it. As much as anything else, the Emira is an homage to ICE era sports cars. The i4 shows they were already thinking in terms of lighter with more horsepower though. That's most likely the one that will be the S or GT or whatever the final version is. The V6 only has 4 years left, then it's gone.

As far as why would 'they' come out with a new car that's 'slower' than the last final edition GT, it's because the Emira is the FIRST edition, not the final edition. To be fair, compare it to the first edition Evora. The Final Edition Emira will be the one all you "needs more power" guys will want; you'll just have to wait for it, and it's going to be more expensive.

 

[FederGigant]

I think @Eagle7 is right. The first Evora was 280 hp, the first Emira has 400. That's quite a jump (which is of course reasonable considering that the first Evora came out 13 years ago). Comparing it to Porsche, the last iteration of the 991.2 had 700 hp (GT 2 RS) and the first 992 had only 385 hp. Does that mean that they also brought out a new product that is WAY slower than the old one?

 

[Lots_Of_Trouble]

I think @Eagle7 is right. The first Evora was 280 hp, the first Emira has 400. That's quite a jump (which is of course reasonable considering that the first Evora came out 13 years ago. Comparing it to Porsche, the last iteration of the 991.2 had 700 hp (GT 2 RS) and the first 992 had only 385 hp. Does that mean that they also brought out a new product that is WAY slower than the old one?

Spot on

 

[freefall_junkie]

The most direct competitor for the Emira is the Cayman GTS 4.0 which has 395bhp, and pretty much the same power to weight. I have read loads of gushing reviews about the Cayman and not one of them has complained of it lacking performance. For me 400 is plenty for road use, and in any case steering feel, handling and driver involvement have always been more important in the Lotus DNA rather than pure straight line grunt.

For a bit of context I am old enough to remember when every schoolboy had a poster of one of these on their wall. In the fastest QV 5000 form the Countach managed 0-60 in 4.5 seconds (that is with a 5.2 litre, 48 valve V12). The Emira will be as quick if not quicker 0-60. Think about that. Modern performance expectations really have gone a bit mad

 

[xen]

I think @Eagle7 is right. The first Evora was 280 hp, the first Emira has 400. That's quite a jump (which is of course reasonable considering that the first Evora came out 13 years ago). Comparing it to Porsche, the last iteration of the 991.2 had 700 hp (GT 2 RS) and the first 992 had only 385 hp. Does that mean that they also brought out a new product that is WAY slower than the old one?

Come on...that's just false equivalence and an extremely contrived comparison. The new GT3 is quicker than the previous GT3 RS, the new 911 base is quicker than the previous S, same for GTS, same for the Turbo's. Newer models are quicker that the previous year's uprated versions.

The Emira is the direct replacement for the Evora, they share the exact same powertrain. You're really trying to equate this to the 911.2 base Carrera being a replacement for the 991.2 GT2 RS?? Geez...

 

[Leonard]

Come on...that's just false equivalence and an extremely contrived comparison. The new GT3 is faster than the previous GT3 RS, the new 911 base is quicker than the previous S, same for GTS, same for the Turbo's.

The Emira is the direct replacement for the Evora. You're really trying to equate this to the 911.2 base Carrera being a replacement for the 991.2 GT2 RS?? Geez...

No. But the outgoing 430 Sport was the Sport. Hopefully the Emira will have 416 and then it's a noticeable step up from the base 400 Evora and all will be well in the world

 

[4GIV8M3]

@xen dont waste your time. There is literally nothing that you can say that will change a fan boys mind.

 

[Pegasi]

The Emira is the direct replacement for the Evora.

I honestly ask this question again. Who has stated this is a direct replacement to an Evora?

 

[xen]

I honestly ask this question again. Who has stated this is a direct replacement to an Evora?

https://www.goodwood.com/grr/road/n...emira-replaces-elise-exige-and-evora[/COLOR]/

2022 Lotus Emira: Hethel’s Last Internal Combustion Sports Car

Lotus bills the all-new Emira as the world’s last internal-combustion sports car, but updates at Hethel suggest it’s the beginning of a new era entirely.

www.forbes.com

Next year, Lotus will replace the long-tenured Evora GT with the all-new Emira, which will go down in history as the iconic English automaker’s final internal combustion sports car. Arguably, the Emira may well be the last truly analog sports car available from any manufacturer, thanks to its focused refinement of everything that made the Evora so unique for so long

Here's Why The Lotus Emira Costs Less Than The Evora

You can thank Geely.

carbuzz.com

The next generation of lightweight Lotus sports cars is about to begin, starting with the Emira. Replacing the Evora, the Emira will be the brand's first all-new sports car in over a decade as well as the last combustion-powered Lotus

New Lotus Emira: First Edition pricing revealed

What could be a worthy climax to 60 years of petrol sports cars? That’ll be the Cayman-rivalling Emira

www.carmagazine.co.uk

Effectively a replacement for the 11-year-old Evora (now an £86k car) the two-seat Emira will also fill the gap vacated by the Elise and Exige, partly explaining why it's being offered with both the familiar supercharged Toyota V6 and a turbo four-cylinder supplied by Mercedes-AMG. Helping bolster the business plan, its platform will also be offered to other manufacturers.

2022 Lotus Emira First Look: A Few Minutes With The Sports Car

The 2022 Lotus Emira is the automaker’s new, mid-engined sports car, replacing the Evora and representing the swan song of internal combustion for the brand.

www.motor1.com

2022 Lotus Emira First Look: A Few Minutes With The Sports Car​

We spend some time with the Evora GT replacement.​

 

[FederGigant]

Come on...that's just false equivalence and an extremely contrived comparison. The new GT3 is quicker than the previous GT3 RS, the new 911 base is quicker than the previous S, same for GTS, same for the Turbo's. Newer models are quicker that the previous year's uprated versions.

The Emira is the direct replacement for the Evora, they share the exact same powertrain. You're really trying to equate this to the 911.2 base Carrera being a replacement for the 991.2 GT2 RS?? Geez...

As said, the 430 GT and such are no base models, equivalent to the GT2 RS, so they are no comparison. You state that the 992 Carrera is quicker than the previous S, the 992 GT3 is quicker than the previous GT3 RS, and yet they have less hp (992 C 385, 991.2 CS 420, 992 GT3 500, 991.2 GT3 RS 510). You just confirmed what I stated before. Who told you that the Emira isn‘t quicker than the 430 Sport?
And if your next idea is to go one step further and say that 992s have more hp than their direct predecessors, than you are right, but I can also think of some examples where the new car has the same hp than the old one. One would be the Audi RS4 and RS5, another one the RS3. The direct predecessor to the Emira would be the Evora 400.

 

[ADC]

This thread has gotten weird. I get sad when I see terms "fan boy" and "kool aid" getting thrown around, regardless of the topic. Seeing as I'm avoiding doing some real work for a few minutes, I'll see if I can further stir people up with a lengthy waffle about how things sit in my head

I think there are a confluence of factors that have resulted in what I'm going to call a slightly disappointing (but clearly not deal-breaking) performance rating for the First Edition of the Emira.
- the V6 is a known quantity to Lotus, and lets them get to market quicker
- the V6 is a giant pain in their ass with regard to current and upcoming emissions targets being difficult to meet if it is tuned hard, and also with regard to what can be coaxed out of the engine and gearbox while still keeping pricing within the market bracket they are trying to hit
- the i4 is known to be a performance hero, and also meets emissions targets nicely
- however, Lotus are reluctant to let the i4 outshine the V6 (at least initially) because it would be confusing from a marketing perspective, so the i4 is (disappointingly IMO) hobbled.
- Lotus are also presumably still "getting to know" the i4 engine, so may have been fairly conservative with the tune so they do not run face first into a global reliability / overheating / fuel compatibility / whatever fiasco straight out of the gate.

I think the comparison to the trajectory from Evora "First Edition" to GT / Final Edition are somewhat apt, but needs to consider both drivetrains for the Emira. What is muddying the water here is that, yes, they are shipping ye olde V6 as that gets the car out the door sooner (and as a bit of fan service), but the real development and performance improvement is ironically going to be carried by the AMG drivetrain.

So, to recap: the Emira should probably have more power, especially from the i4, but Lotus have chosen to a) hit a price point, b) make sure they don't immediately get a bad reputation for reliability, c) let the V6 fans feel more smug than they deserve to be , and d) leave a significant amount of headroom for i4 power bumps over coming years (whether they just expect to get to know the i4 better, or whether they just cynically get to release new editions with a simple remap).
Does it suck? A bit. Are we all kinda stoked anyway? Yes. Am I inevitably going to want to tune the bollocks off my i4 at some point? Probably, once the aftermarket has matured for this model.

I'm not presuming to speak for anyone, but I don't think is too far from where xen / PaulP / 4GIV8M3 stand... we could probably do with skipping the polarising rhetoric though (in either direction).

 

[Leonard]

We just need Lotus to give us 416bhp on the dyno and we can all live happily ever after :group hug:

 

[ADC]

Also, to get back on topic, this is the kind of thing I was expecting to see fairly early on... Tesla motor ahoy! (love it or hate it... but I think I know where a lot of us stand on this )
Evora – Engine Swap Depot

 

[Leonard]

Also, to get back on topic, this is the kind of thing I was expecting to see fairly early on... Tesla motor ahoy! (love it or hate it... but I think I know where a lot of us stand on this )
Evora – Engine Swap Depot

I said to the Lotus team at the roadshow this car would be a game changer with a bespoke motor in it. I also said I would expect it to sell for £100k+ if it had one. They seemed quite suprised by that. Its too late now as we move into an EV world. But imagine if the Emira had come out 4 years ago with a Lotus/Cosworth developed compact V6 or even V8... Would indeed have been some motor with 500 bhp and everything upgraded to suit.