If you sold your EMIRA what’s next?

[hellasf1]

Just for fun. If you sold your EMIRA and bought another vehicle what would it be? (Around the same price or less than the EMIRA)

 

[Blackthought_]

There's also this thing called gearing differences.

Also, don't forget power curves, or power under the curve.

Just because you have the same power to weight ratio doesn't mean you will accelerate the same way, not at all.

Emiras and fast 0-60 times don't go together. Transmission shifting is way too slow to be a contender.

Agreed. 0-60 times are def not what lotus is about. Never has, never will be. If you’re looking for straight line speed, this ain’t it. You’d be better getting something electric that launches like a rocket. We need to stop talking about the 0-60 and more of what the Emira does really well…. Like cornering, balance, chassis, etc.

 

[EspritGuy]

A hearse to carry me to the graveyard. Put me in the ground if I have to sell my Emira!

This is why ground clearance matters....

 

[benjh1028]

1. “No Stuttgart sports car is going to outdo the little(ish) Lotus in the visual drama stakes”
2. “The 992 just isn’t anywhere near as arresting”
3. “The bare-knuckle feedback that defines the Emira experience from the first wheel revolution isn’t present in anything like the same quantity”
4. “Additionally, that easygoing nature and intangible flow to the Lotus experience - still a marker of the low-weight ethos - is not replicated in the 911.”
5. “The steering (with optional RWS) is super responsive by comparison and arguably better weighted, though it lacks the accuracy and the animation of the Emira.”
6. “Despite the missing rear seats, lightweight glass and driver-focused spec, the T is initially more distant than the Lotus. By a margin. “
7. “Even with the adaptive exhaust in its correct setting, the flat-six sound is not quite as stirring and the clutch bite vaguer.
8. “The sound is reasonably exciting, if nothing on the shrieking rasp of the V6. Every time the Emira’s heftier gearbox and clutch felt like the better option (certainly its ratios are preferable)”
9. “In the 911 there’s more angst about whether the auto-blip should be on, whether the damping control should be stricter and so on. It can be left well alone and still deliver convincingly, of course - agile, disciplined, tireless - yet it is harder to establish a rhythm with. The T feels like it wants maximum attack to show off its best, while the Lotus is as easy as a Sunday morning.”
10. Even scratching the surface of its ability, the Emira enthralls. The Porsche isn’t so immediately charming”
11. “This time, though, with the emphasis on driving pleasure, the Lotus must take the spoils. It’s a more demanding car to pedal, requiring more thought about weight distribution, entry speed and so on, yet because it is such a treat to engage with, that additional effort never seems like a chore.”

Decisive victory from my standpoint.

Okay so a bit childish as your initial response to me saying a 911T would be intriguing is that the Lotus “slaughters” the Porsche. And you back up your opinion with an article of someone else’s opinion. I bet I can find many articles that favor the Porsche. Didn’t need you to tell me I was wrong that I have thought of a 911T as a solid option. Also, as an Emira owner (because I do really like the car), and many times over Porsche owner and PCA racer, I find you telling me I’m wrong for considering a Porsche is a bit unqualified. Also, the Porsche models you referenced that do give you the same feeling as the Lotus (GT3, GT2, GT3RS and others) - I seriously doubt you have driven all of these as they have become rare beasts that no dealer will give the keys to unless you are the buyer. So, your opinion is “fact” because of a magazine article?

But I’ll play along. Here are other quotes from the same article that provide support for the Porsche being a capable and comparable machine.

“It’s worth pointing out that the outgoing derivative of 911 remains a handsome beast, cool and clean cut in time-honoured Porsche tradition. It doesn’t need scoops and slats in the bodywork because it doesn’t need to try that hard.”

“It operates with all the precision and slickness that characterises the rest of the 911 experience.”

“Inside, though as a lesson in cabin quality, logic and cohesion the 992 remains very hard to fault. You sense it’ll feel just as sturdy and look almost as smart in another 100,000 miles”

“The Emira doesn't impart the same sense of impervious solidity, though it remains a vast improvement on the recent past”

“You can eventually find a comfy enough position in the Lotus; the 911 fits like it’s tailored-made”

“The T’s twin-turbo flat-six remains a very good Porsche engine. It revs with greater enthusiasm than the Lotus, rushing to beyond 7,000 where the V6 abruptly calls time at 6,800rpm”

“There’s also precious little lag to the flat-six, so it never feels at a disadvantage compared to the supercharged Lotus”

“Every time the Emira’s heftier gearbox and clutch felt like the better option (certainly its ratios are preferable), the Porsche’s shorter throw, better placed pedals and better-defined gate snuck it ahead again”

“The Porsche impresses with its huge depth of ability, seemingly never happier than demonstrating just how well it can stop, how keenly it can steer and authoritatively it can ride. Nothing fazes it, and confidence builds quickly because of just how good the brake pedal is, and how assured its enormous reserves of grip always seem to be. For what is essentially an added-value, entry-level 911, it’s very hard to fault, the consummate Porsche two-door with quality coursing through every inch. And to be frank, it’s quite nice that a manual, two-seat, two-wheel drive, sub-400hp 911 can remain part of the range at vaguely realistic money”

“The satisfaction of seeing a 911 parked outside, or using an interior that requires no qualification or explanation, shouldn’t be underestimated either. Nor the dependability that typically comes with a Porsche purchase.”

I have also read some of your other posts, and the common thread is you find the Emira to be one of the best sports cars ever made. I applaud your enthusiasm and share in much of it. But I also think there are some other great options out there and appreciate each one for what they bring to the table.

I’m on my 3rd Lotus so clearly I do like what the brand offers. I absolutely love the steering feel of the Emira. But don’t question me for appreciating variety and the uniqueness others may offer.

 

[Tomwa]

I basically don't count any of the Hennessey or Lingenfelter cars.

Which leaves you with all the exo-cars that weigh under 2k lbs. The Aston Vulcan (24 made), One Egg. Pagani, and other small production hyper cars like the SSC, or track specials like Ultima.

It ultimately doesn't matter if any of these cars have sequential gear levers because they are all only doing 1 gear change.

Though, honestly with the really high HP cars. You might do the test starting in 2nd to avoid the gear change. You have enough TQ like the Viper and the Lingenfelter you don't need 1st. Or 1st is already geared so long you can get to 60+ mph without shifting.


The Vulcan actually likely is the best proof of point. The curb weight is 2976 lbs. Has 830hp, nearly 600lbft tq, has magnesium bits and a carbon fiber drive shaft. Carbon ceramics. Car cost 2.3 Million. No expense spared.

Result. 2.9 second 0-60

 

[morphious]

 

[Tomwa]

No Lotus badge. No deal.

Actually...I feel like you could make a Europa herse. Just gotta stretch it out some more.

 

[benjh1028]

When seeking to improved performance, most people think of adding horsepower which is the obvious choice. It's the quickest way, but as you know when you do that, you have to beef up other areas. That's basically the brute force method for increasing performance in a straight line.

The real focus shouldn't just be horsepower; it should be the weight to horsepower ratio. What most people don't think of, and it's certainly not intentional, is when they start having to beef up other parts of the car to cope with the power increase, they're subtly working against that ratio by adding weight against their power increase.

Colin Chapman's philosophy of adding lightness to achieve performance isn't as dramatic or glamorous, and it has to be done in many small steps, so you don't get that big jump in performance all at once like you do with a big power upgrade. Visually and audibly it tends to be in the sleeper category because it's not immediately obvious.

To improve the weight to power ratio (W/P) there's 2 types of weight you can focus on. The obvious one is just static weight, and you have to remove a lot of it to make small differences. The second type which is by far the most beneficial is rotating weight, with unsprung rotating weight being the most beneficial of all.

There are many different claims about the benefit ratio, with anywhere from 4-to-1 to 20-to-1 of the amount of static weight you'd have to remove to equal the benefit of unsprung rotating weight, but going with the most conservative of 4-to-1, after I upgrade the brakes to CCB, I'll have removed a total of 53 lbs of unsprung rotating weight from the wheels. That would be the equivalent of 212 lbs of static weight removed. I'll also have an additional 60 lbs of straight static weight removed, so the total benefit would put me at about 2,995 lbs of performance weight for the car.

Right now I have an estimated 418 bhp, which would give me a W/P of 2995 ÷ 418 = 7.16. A 2020 C8 Z51 stock has a W/P of 7.37 and a 0-60 time of 3.0 according to the factory stats. Even though my W/P will be slightly better, I don't have the 470 ft lbs. of torque the Z51 has which gives it a huge advantage off the line (as well as an automatic). The advantage I'll have is I'll be over 600 lbs lighter. I'm figuring I'll be somewhere in the mid 3's. A Komo tune taking into account the Eventuri, would hopefully put me close to 445-ish power-wise, and according to them another 22 ft lbs of torque. According to the dyno runs I had, I have 318 ft lbs of torque right now, so the Komo tune should put me somewhere around 340 ft lbs. That would drop my performance W/P to 6.73. That's significant.

Right now this is calculations and estimates, but once I get the Dragy and can do some measured runs, I'll have actual performance data to post.

If nothing else, this will be at least interesting.

HP required for sub 3-sec 0-60 time is a pretty basic calculation, but I’m too lazy to do it manually so went to this calculator: https://www.carspecs.us/calculator/0-60

Plugging in different horsepower’s at the flywheel (which can be derived by a P/W ratio) provides these results (3279-lb curb weight):

HP 0-60 (seconds)
400 - 4.05
420 - 3.90
440 - 3.77
500 - 3.43
550 - 3.19
600 - 2.99

Interestingly, if you drop 200-lbs from the car, it still requires 560-hp to get to a 3-second 0-60 time.

 

[Tomwa]

Those times are extremely optimistic if you are using Crank HP. Considering the car has 400hp and doesn't do 0-60 in 4.05 Stock. More like 4.3.

Which means you might get under 4 with 420hp, barely

 

[Lotus64]

@benjh1028

Car reviews should be taken with a grain of salt, as a data point that will have some amount of bias; however it's important to seperate the objective from the subjective and recognize the integrity of the judgment criteria and expectations.

The article was written in a fairly objective manner by a publication that has been overly critical of the emira in the past. They included logical, detailed reasoning and explanations to support their claims for choosing the Emira as the more pleasurable vehicle over the 911T with observations that mirror my experiences in both brands and the experiences many others have shared. They judged both vehicles based on their intended missions.

I wasn't saying the 911T isn't an intriguing or solid option. It's wonderful as the article states, just not as charming as the Emira. One can claim the 911T is comparable in the sense that its handsome, sturdy, precise and solid, as you detailed, but in the overwhelmingly most important category for a sports car, fun and driving pleasure, the 911T falls very short.

It's just not on our level in terms of engagement and drama and that's fact. It has more electronic aids and filters more information, which goes against the mission of a communicative sports car.

The GT models I have driven in and rode in do in fact feel closer to the lotus experience as you mentioned as well, proving the point that the non GT models, like the 911T, are not up to par with the the Emira due to lack of sporting nature and lack of GT motorsport involvement. So your defensivenes about me pointing that out is a little perplexing considering you acknowledged the same and speaks to your apprehension and unwillingness to hear anything critical about Porsche regardless of the facts.

 

[Tomwa]

I will say.

The Gap to GT cars for Porsche can be overcome surprisingly easy in the Turbo cars. While you might have some work to do with suspension, or they don't have the same sound.

I know someone with a street driven daily 770hp Carrera Cabrio... Because tuning those cars is very approachable.

 

[sonor8s]

I purposely left Porsche off my list of potential cars after the Emira due to its cost alone. Aside from the 4-cyl Cayman, the price gap is generally steep (30-50k+). These are, of course, spec'd dealer prices, as I realize the base MSRP of the Cayman GTS 4.0 is similar to the Emira. Then, there is the tall gearing, which is undesirable. I believe this can be rectified for 10-15k, but I do not generally perform such significant mechanical mods to my cars. I have always liked the GT3 Touring but again, I am unsure I could ever justify the price.
For me, the Emira was the perfect second car. It ticked all the boxes and I was able to spec it new and still justify the price.

 

[Beachbum]

We are drastically derailing this thread, on its original purpose, of what other car would you consider. Maybe a seperate thread on how to get 0-60 times down below 3.0 secs would be appropriate?

Having said that and just my 2p's worth, I really dont understand the interest in 0-60 times. OK so getting them down to ~5.0 secs, I can see the point of, but after that, it seems to serve little purpose, just bragging rights.
If you can get me a car that can do 30-50, 40-60, 50-70 as quickly as possible, then I am interested. I refuse to enter into traffic light blasts, but being able to over take quickly an easily I will buy into every time.

 

[scc.131.fe]

View attachment 56462

I see what you did there...

 

[Eagle7]

We are drastically derailing this thread, on its original purpose, of what other car would you consider. Maybe a seperate thread on how to get 0-60 times down below 3.0 secs would be appropriate?

Having said that and just my 2p's worth, I really dont understand the interest in 0-60 times. OK so getting them down to ~5.0 secs, I can see the point of, but after that, it seems to serve little purpose, just bragging rights.
If you can get me a car that can do 30-50, 40-60, 50-70 as quickly as possible, then I am interested. I refuse to enter into traffic light blasts, but being able to over take quickly an easily I will buy into every time.

My apologies on the derailment. For me, it's not about bragging rights, as the Emira is never going to be a 1/4 mile car nor were they ever that type of car, which is why I haven't and don't talk about 1/4 mile. For me the 0-60 performance is about the car's ability to dig out of a corner, and the throttle response for being able to get into and maintain momentum through the curves. My focus is for the street, not the track.

When I have some street performance numbers to post, I'll put them in my project thread, and maybe also start a street performance thread for those that are interested. I've posted dyno results in my thread, and I'm getting a Dragy for Christmas so I'll be able to get some actual road performance data. Do any of the forum members have and use a Dragy?

 

[Blackthought_]

Yeah let’s get back on track with the thread. Anyone consider getting an m2? I’ve driven a newer m3 and wasn’t thrilled but I hear the newer m2 is pretty good.

 

[Steve24]

Yeah let’s get back on track with the thread. Anyone consider getting an m2? I’ve driven a newer m3 and wasn’t thrilled but I hear the newer m2 is pretty good.

No. M2 is as ugly as a hat full of arseholes.
And I’m a serial BMW lover.

Next.

 

[seriously]

BMW design has lost its way for sometime. I think the i4 and i5 look ok, but who wants ok for their expensive super saloon? M2 might be uglier than the M3.

I’m a BMW fan as well but BMW is no longer the design icon it used to be.

These days I prefer Audi design. All the RS designs are top notch.

 

[benjh1028]

If you don’t mind putting in some work (which to me is therapeutic), they claim this costs the same as an M4. Will be my retirement project in a few years.

Ultima Sports

British manufacturers of the sensational Le Mans inspired Ultima supercar, one of the quickest road going cars in the world.

www.ultimasports.co.uk

 

[Speedy Emira]

HP required for sub 3-sec 0-60 time is a pretty basic calculation, but I’m too lazy to do it manually so went to this calculator: https://www.carspecs.us/calculator/0-60

Plugging in different horsepower’s at the flywheel (which can be derived by a P/W ratio) provides these results (3279-lb curb weight):

HP 0-60 (seconds)
400 - 4.05
420 - 3.90
440 - 3.77
500 - 3.43
550 - 3.19
600 - 2.99

Interestingly, if you drop 200-lbs from the car, it still requires 560-hp to get to a 3-second 0-60 time.

Great calculator. The only think I could think that would make it better is manual or auto option because I still think 3.0 is a hard target without launch.

 

[Tomwa]

Ultimas are cool, but I think will pretty much always feel like kit car death traps.


For kit cars I've always wanted to build a Shelby Daytona with IRS. I also wanted to modernize it with a big diffuser out back and so forth.