is Emira a SuperCar?

[MYFASTEFE]

It's just not that expensive to people who would be buying supercars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. I agree it's an expensive car for the general population, but those people are not buying supercars. I see some notes here and there about people stretching to afford an Emira, or needing to borrow money to make their finances work. It's not my place to talk about these specific cases, but my general contention is that for people that can responsibly afford a $200k-$300k car, a $100k car is just not that expensive.

I know i know lol

 

[MYFASTEFE]

It's just not that expensive to people who would be buying supercars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. I agree it's an expensive car for the general population, but those people are not buying supercars. I see some notes here and there about people stretching to afford an Emira, or needing to borrow money to make their finances work. It's not my place to talk about these specific cases, but my general contention is that for people that can responsibly afford a $200k-$300k car, a $100k car is just not that expensive.

Funny thing, now that you say that..... I am in insurance, i can tell you that most people, and i mean the great majority of people that buy a 200k plus car, cannot afford it. Most of them sell before the year, Why? Because maintenance is due, and tires are due, this expense and that one.

 

[Nova]

Funny thing, now that you say that..... I am in insurance, i can tell you that most people, and i mean the great majority of people that buy a 200k plus car, cannot afford it. Most of them sell before the year, Why? Because maintenance is due, and tires are due, this expense and that one.

Curious, how do you know what their income is? I don't think *any* of the financial and insurance relationships I have knows what our income is. If there's a need to provide income information to qualify for something, we provide just enough to qualify.

I can appreciate that there is a lot of selling/trading of high end cars because these cars tend to satisfy some temporary fancy before the owner moves on to the next fling. These owners are not necessarily selling out of financial hardship.

I guess you could lookup the owner's address to see what their primary residence is worth and extrapolate from that...

 

[MYFASTEFE]

Curious, how do you know what their income is? I don't think *any* of the financial and insurance relationships I have knows what our income is. If there's a need to provide income information to qualify for something, we provide just enough to qualify.

I can appreciate that there is a lot of selling/trading of high end cars because these cars tend to satisfy some temporary fancy before the owner moves on to the next fling. These owners are not necessarily selling out of financial hardship.

I guess you could lookup the owner's address to see what their primary residence is worth and extrapolate from that...

People like to talk, LOL it is always the same story. Let's just say they tell me. The amount of fraud, claim frequency and severity is another. Numbers don't lie.

I was just trying to point out, just because people have something... Doesn't mean they can afford it.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I was just trying to point out, just because people have something... Doesn't mean they can afford it.

It's true. I'm married and can't afford it

 

[Porter]

It's just not that expensive to people who would be buying supercars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. I agree it's an expensive car for the general population, but those people are not buying supercars. I see some notes here and there about people stretching to afford an Emira, or needing to borrow money to make their finances work. It's not my place to talk about these specific cases, but my general contention is that for people that can responsibly afford a $200k-$300k car, a $100k car is just not that expensive.

Come on man. By that standard, the average 50-millionaire isn't Rich, because billionaires exist. What is relatively or comparatively affordable for people who are already in a pretty rarefied wealth class isn't really relevant to the topic.

What is relevant is how normal people in the general public perceive this stuff. And by that standard, something like an Emira is absolutely an exceptional and unusual performance vehicle that would easily go on a poster on a kid's wall. That, for me, is the difference between a regular car and a supercar.

"Sports car" vs "supercar" vs "hypercar" is all pretty irrelevant. Those are all terms that were made up in the last 10 years or 15 years or so to justify stratification among products in an ultra elite class of ultra expensive, insanely engineered luxury products.

To the average person, there's simply no meaningful difference between a Lamborghini and a Koenigsegg. They are both absurd, extravagant, desirable, and financially unattainable.

The Emira is far less expensive than either of those, but $100K is still an absolutely incredible amount of money for the average person in the United States. Definitely not within the realm of reasonable or rational cost when you're talking about something that only has utility as transportation for two adults.

So is it a supercar? It's in the eye of the beholder. But I think to the average person, it qualifies.

 

[seriously]

Come on man. By that standard, the average 50-millionaire isn't Rich, because billionaires exist. What is relatively or comparatively affordable for people who are already in a pretty rarefied wealth class isn't really relevant to the topic.

What is relevant is how normal people in the general public perceive this stuff. And by that standard, something like an Emira is absolutely an exceptional and unusual performance vehicle that would easily go on a poster on a kid's wall. That, for me, is the difference between a regular car and a supercar.

"Sports car" vs "supercar" vs "hypercar" is all pretty irrelevant. Those are all terms that were made up in the last 10 years or 15 years or so to justify stratification among products in an ultra elite class of ultra expensive, insanely engineered luxury products.

To the average person, there's simply no meaningful difference between a Lamborghini and a Koenigsegg. They are both absurd, extravagant, desirable, and financially unattainable.

The Emira is far less expensive than either of those, but $100K is still an absolutely incredible amount of money for the average person in the United States. Definitely not within the realm of reasonable or rational cost when you're talking about something that only has utility as transportation for two adults.

So is it a supercar? It's in the eye of the beholder. But I think to the average person, it qualifies.

I think $100k used to be a price level associated with super car, but it's just not anymore. Not that it matters that anyone is right... but the price of trucks and sedans and even sporty cars are out of control. Porsche's start in the $100k range, so price inflation has kind of reset what we think of as a reasonable car vs. an extravagant car. Top line BMW, Mercedes and Audis are in the $100k range. So that doesn't feel like super car territory. I'm not suggesting that $100k is at all affordable, but that's the new norm for top of the line regular car.

 

[Nova]

Come on man. By that standard, the average 50-millionaire isn't Rich, because billionaires exist. What is relatively or comparatively affordable for people who are already in a pretty rarefied wealth class isn't really relevant to the topic.

What is relevant is how normal people in the general public perceive this stuff. And by that standard, something like an Emira is absolutely an exceptional and unusual performance vehicle that would easily go on a poster on a kid's wall. That, for me, is the difference between a regular car and a supercar.

"Sports car" vs "supercar" vs "hypercar" is all pretty irrelevant. Those are all terms that were made up in the last 10 years or 15 years or so to justify stratification among products in an ultra elite class of ultra expensive, insanely engineered luxury products.

To the average person, there's simply no meaningful difference between a Lamborghini and a Koenigsegg. They are both absurd, extravagant, desirable, and financially unattainable.

The Emira is far less expensive than either of those, but $100K is still an absolutely incredible amount of money for the average person in the United States. Definitely not within the realm of reasonable or rational cost when you're talking about something that only has utility as transportation for two adults.

So is it a supercar? It's in the eye of the beholder. But I think to the average person, it qualifies.

Yea, there is a pitfall of always comparing up or down indefinitely, but in our present context we have somewhat of a fixed absolute objective standard. We know that your average Ferrari, McLaren, Lamborghini definitely qualifies as a supercar, so this is somewhat fixed.

At the end of the day, the Emira is about 2x what the average new car price is in the US. To someone making 2x the US median income, this is at the *same scale* in terms of expense to gross income ratio. A household making $150k-200K is pretty solidly middle class and "average" in and around any of the major or secondary metropolitan areas.

In my experience, when comparing relative lifestyles, the log scale is a lot more useful than a linear scale. To meaningfully be living a different lifestyle than someone at the 50% percentile, you need to be at the 5% percentile. And to meaningfully be different from that, you need to be at the 0.5% percentile. In this perspective, a supercar like a Ferrari and Lambo is solidly an order of magnitude more expensive than the average new car, whereas the Emira is merely 2x.

I'll say this, most people will probably assume that the Emira is far more expensive than it really is, so in their eyes, it's right in the same league as supercars.

 

[TheMotizzle]

I always said it wasn’t and a friend of mine put it in the best frame I think:

It’s a brand new 20 year old Super Car. It’s a new and maintenance friendly Ferrari 360. 400 HP, lower torque. Mid-engine.

View attachment 37713

Exactly this. I was planning on buying a used 360 and then the Emira came along, made way too much sense, and looks incredible.

 

[xen]

A lot of (understandable) Kook aid in this thread....

The Emira is obviously not a supercar. Hard to argue with the people who actually make, market, sell and know more than anyone else about the car but it won't stop people trying.

 

[Porter]

A lot of (understandable) Kook aid in this thread....

The Emira is obviously not a supercar. Hard to argue with the people who actually make, market, sell and know more than anyone else about the car but it won't stop people trying.

So what you're saying is essentially that the Ferrari 288 and 328 were supercars, but the 308 was not? Because Ferrari marketed it to be more accessible?

 

[lynchy73]

If a non car guy thinks its a Ferrari/Lambo/Mclaren, then they think it’s a supercar. If kids stop what they are doing and stare, they think its a supercar. If people REALLY look when you pull up to the lights, they think it’s a supercar. They might not use the word supercar but it seems to get the same sort of attention as a proper supercar would.

We can categorise the Emira as we wish, but from my experience, the general public think an Emira is pretty special.

 

[xen]

So what you're saying is essentially that the Ferrari 288 and 328 were supercars, but the 308 was not? Because Ferrari marketed it to be more accessible?

What I'm saying, which is pretty clear in my message, is that Lotus who know more about the car, it's positioning and it's target market than you do classify it as a sports car.

Unless you believe you know better than them about their product?

 

[Speedy Emira]

What I'm saying, which is pretty clear in my message, is that Lotus who know more about the car, it's positioning and it's target market than you do classify it as a sports car.

Unless you believe you know better than them about their product?

If I was Lotus I wouldn’t describe it as a supercar even if I believed it was because any marketing director worth his wages would say it’s not worth the negative comments from all the so called supercar owners. It would just make it a witch hunt against Lotus. If you had just paid €400k for a Ferrari you would never watch to believe or admit any Lotus was a supercar so you could keep your superior status.

 

[KCMO68_510]

What I'm saying, which is pretty clear in my message, is that Lotus who know more about the car, it's positioning and it's target market than you do classify it as a sports car.

Unless you believe you know better than them about their product?

I was on that side of the fence as well, but my friends analogy is tough to explain then.

If I went and bought a Ferrari 360 right now, I don’t think anyone would object if I said I bought a supercar. Quick Google shows it referred as a supercar by many magazines.

What materially makes the Ferrari 360 a supercar and excludes the Emira?

It’s not power/performance.
It’s not handling.
It’s not exclusivity.
It’s not really looks.
It’s not drivetrain layout.
It’s not even that much different in MSRP. (Ok inflation makes this debatable)
You could argue V8 vs Supercharged V6.

The real answer is just the contemporaries of its era. Unquestionable Super Cars today are WAY wilder. But the Emira would have ticked all the supercar boxes of not too far off eras.

Maybe instead of “baby supercar” the correct term should be “retro supercar”

 

[Nova]

If a non car guy thinks its a Ferrari/Lambo/Mclaren, then they think it’s a supercar. If kids stop what they are doing and stare, they think its a supercar. If people REALLY look when you pull up to the lights, they think it’s a supercar. They might not use the word supercar but it seems to get the same sort of attention as a proper supercar would.

We can categorise the Emira as we wish, but from my experience, the general public think an Emira is pretty special.

People have the same reaction to kit cars. Looks is just one part of the equation and we all agree that the Emira has the looks.

 

[DPB]

It's been fun reading this thread and the lively debate and different viewpoints. It's a welcome distraction from hitting the refresh button on the USA/Canada Delivery Thread like a lab rat addicted to cocaine. I fall into the camp that the supercar designation is a matter of perspective and point in time. From a pure specification standpoint the Emira has comparable numbers to a Lamborghini Countach LP 500S - a car that pretty much defines the label "supercar". I recall it being described in it's day as the epitome of "wretched excess". However, the Lamborghini hit those specs 40 years ago! As noted by others, modern Lamborghinis (and other brands) leave the Countach in the dust. Forget modern hypercars, which are simply bonkers. It doesn't make it any less a supercar, though. The bottom line to me is the designation of "supercar" is in the eyes of the beholder.

From my perspective the Lotus Emira is simply one of the most beautiful, if not THE most beautiful, sports cars ever created. It is purpose built to be lived with, driven and cherished for years and is a fitting ICE swang song and tribute to the notion that getting there can be much more than half the fun. However, it's design language and rarity will make it an "exotic car" to 99.9% of onlookers. I applaud Lotus for making such a car accessible to a (somewhat) wider audience and consider myself very lucky to be picking mine up from the dealer "soon".

Lamborghini Countach LP 500S 370HP NA V12 3263 lb 0-60 MPH in 5.2 sec. 182 MPH top speed mid-engined 2-seater	Lotus Emira 400HP Supercharged V6 3097 lb 0-60 MPH in 4.3 sec. 180 MPH top speed mid-engined 2-seater

 

[Adam Brouillard]

What I'm saying, which is pretty clear in my message, is that Lotus who know more about the car, it's positioning and it's target market than you do classify it as a sports car.

Unless you believe you know better than them about their product?

Ferrari Range: All the Models on Sale - Ferrari.com

Discover the Ferrari range with all the models on sale: configure your car online and request all the information you need. Browse the pictures and technical data sheets with all the details of the design and performance of Ferrari models.

www.ferrari.com

Looks like Ferraris are sports cars too. Maybe I should just get a Subaru BRZ. Apparently it's the same as a Ferrari.

 

[iiNNeX]

For today's standards, no it's not a Super Car, far from it. Can't compare it to cars 20-30 years ago and say "well it's faster so its a supercar!"... No, it's not.

However, that doesn't matter as the car looks better than a lot of the supercars out there and fast enough to satisfy most owners.

 

[Biggles of Norwich]

Could I suggest this as an enlightening read: https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news...upercar-appeal-in-the-sports-car-segment.html