Is This For Real? BMW Charging to use heated seats?

[xen]

This is not true in the US. First Sale Doctrine is long established, essentially bedrock law here. Once you own a physical asset like a car, you can do absolutely anything to it that you want and the IP inherent in it doesn't matter at all. That includes software, as long as you aren't copying and reselling it.

The restrictions on modification to ECU code etc are 100% related to emissions controls and enforced by the EPA, nothing to do with IP protection. And it remains to be seen whether emissions enforcement of that type will stand now that the US Supreme Court ruled against the EPA regarding their rulemaking authority in the WV vs EPA case last month.

There's a long tradition of extreme vehicle modification being legal in the US. You can chop the roof off, change the number of seats, exit the exhaust to the side, double or triple the horsepower, and convert it to a three wheeler if you want. The only meaningful restrictions are applied at the state level based on their safety inspection policies.

We don’t disagree. You can do anything you want to the car yes but the IP does matter. The manufacturer can for example lock / hardcode the ECU / software to the car and if you sell that component it’ll be inoperable in another car. This is my point - not your ability to modify the car which you can do anywhere.

 

[Porter]

Then the solution to this is to wire in a physical switch to turn on the seat heaters manually. Eliminate the software control. $20-$50 in parts for a dash button and relay, and you have a permanent solution.

 

[Leonard]

Then the solution to this is to wire in a physical switch to turn on the seat heaters manually. Eliminate the software control. $20-$50 in parts for a dash button and relay, and you have a permanent solution.

Yup folk will always do work arounds to buck the system. As you say your car so do what you want. Or just pay the 50 dollars for the 3 months you need them during your 18 month ownership and save yourself the bother.
Its all just another step to a one product business model. Hell bmw even have that electro changing paint now don't they, so put an ev engine in the car with a motor on each wheel and no physical buttons inside and you have a car that can be any colour, any bhp, any drive rwd, fwd or awd and all options configured from the main touch screen. Final physical parts like alloy wheels and tyres could be swapped out on subscription to larger size, all road, winter etc through your dealer. Could even swap out interior parts to change up the look etc etc

 

[Leonard]

This is not true in the US. First Sale Doctrine is long established, essentially bedrock law here. Once you own a physical asset like a car, you can do absolutely anything to it that you want and the IP inherent in it doesn't matter at all. That includes software, as long as you aren't copying and reselling it.

No plans to introduce to the USA

BMW criticised for putting heated seats behind a paywall

The hardware for the features advertised on BMW's ConnectedDrive store must already be installed in the vehicles during production - but drivers have to pay extra to turn them on.

news.sky.com

 

[Porter]

No plans to introduce to the USA

 

[Leonard]

View attachment 7399

They just don't want their cars setting on fire and employees being shot at #freedom

 

[Porter]

They just don't want their cars setting on fire and employees being shot at #freedom

Or people freezing to death in Nome, Alaska when the heater core busts from overnight lows of -40C (that's real), and the seat heaters are present but locked behind software. Imagine the lawsuits.

 

[Mctaff]

.If you still don't see a problem with that, then maybe I could put it this way: Have you paid your refrigerator subscription fee this month? How about your dishwasher subscription fee?

it’s different: you can buy a lifetime subscription upfront - which is just another way of describing our existing pay for the hardware option approach -if you want to for 415. So I would assume you’d only subscribe shorter term if it was financially sensible.

In the uk I’ll need the heated seats 3 months per year at 18pm, 3 years, total 162; if I go unlimited / pay for a heated seat option they will charge me 415. If I finance on pcp ( most uk consumers use this model) with a 50% future value, I’ll pay roughly 255 inc interest @7%

Clearly subscription is much better value for me…. It would cost me over 50% more to buy the option/unlimited

 

[Leonard]

it’s different: you can buy a lifetime subscription upfront - which is just another way of describing our existing pay for the hardware option approach -if you want to for 415. So I would assume you’d only subscribe shorter term if it was financially sensible.

In the uk I’ll need the heated seats 3 months per year at 18pm, 3 years, total 162; if I go unlimited / pay for a heated seat option they will charge me 415. If I finance on pcp ( most uk consumers use this model) with a 50% future value, I’ll pay roughly 255 inc interest @7%

Clearly subscription is much better value for me…. It would cost me over 50% more to buy the option/unlimited

Yup great point. Leasing is same or maybe even worse. You are paying for all of the expensive options at RRP on top of the base price and never see that money back as the car is never yours.

 

[kratedisease]

Indeed. I'm sure everyone would be immediately on-board if they start offering manufacturer approved ECU power upgrades rather than you having to go to Revo/Superchips and the like.

Wrong,

What kinda goof is going to pay a monthly "rent" to get more performance ?

miss a month of "rent" and you car goes back to being slug ?

I think most would rather pay for a chip swap out.

you own the car, you own the title, and the company is holding you hostage on the hardware features ?

If you lease the car then these subscription services MIGHT make some sense.

 

[Leonard]

Wrong,

What kinda goof is going to pay a monthly "rent" to get more performance ?

miss a month of "rent" and you car goes back to being slug ?

I think most would rather pay for a chip swap out.

you own the car, you own the title, and the company is holding you hostage on the hardware features ?

If you lease the car then these subscription services MIGHT make some sense.

Because its covered under manufacturer warranty?
Because over 2 years it costs the same as a remap?
Because when you sell it there arent any issues with it having been modified and you don't have to reflash the ECU?
It happens already with EVs and that's where all cars are currently heading. They do make sense. More I think about it the less issues I see. Really don't get why folk have issue other than "I paid for this car and these heated seats!" Well no you didn't actually did you... you didn't tick the 400 pound heated seats option box... But don't worry if you are now regretting it you can pay it now

 

[kratedisease]

it’s different: you can buy a lifetime subscription upfront - which is just another way of describing our existing pay for the hardware option approach -if you want to for 415. So I would assume you’d only subscribe shorter term if it was financially sensible.

In the uk I’ll need the heated seats 3 months per year at 18pm, 3 years, total 162; if I go unlimited / pay for a heated seat option they will charge me 415. If I finance on pcp ( most uk consumers use this model) with a 50% future value, I’ll pay roughly 255 inc interest @7%

Clearly subscription is much better value for me…. It would cost me over 50% more to buy the option/unlimited

Clueless, .......you already paid for the heated seats because the price of the car included the price that BMW had to pay to the supplier to have the hardware installed in the seat at the time of manufacture. BMW already paid for the materials inside the seat to heat it up. That is built into the price you paid.

YOU ALREADY PAID FOR THE HEATED SEAT HARDWARE.

And now you are cluelessly happy that you are only paying a bit more monthly to use those materials ?

Next BMW will sell you a car and then charge you to rent the tires or they will deflate.

clueless.

I have some rocks for sale, let me know if you are interested.

I am also selling some air.

 

[Leonard]

Clueless, .......you already paid for the heated seats because the price of the car included the price that BMW had to pay to the supplier to have the hardware installed in the seat

YOU ALREADY PAID FOR THE HEATED SEAT HARDWARE.

And now you are cluelessly happy that you are only paying a bit more monthly to use those materials ?

Next BMW will sell you a car and then charge you to rent the tires or they will deflate.

clueless.

I have some rocks for sale, let me know if you are interested.

I am also selling some air.

Sorry you are wrong
The economies of scale and smaller production lines will mean that its cheaper to build ALL cars with heated seats than a mix of both and fitting as and when ordered as an option.
And folk buy expensive rocks all the time and then fit them to even more expensive 'prescious' metals. Biggest scam going. Folk be much better off paying for useful stuff like heated seats

 

[kratedisease]

" Well no you didn't actually did you... you didn't tick the 400 pound heated seats option box... But don't worry if you are now regretting it you can pay it now

I am in utter shock you are defending this....

every BMW will have the heated seat mechanism installed no matter what. BMW has to pay for that upgrade in the seats to be able to "rent" it out.

Every owner ALREADY did "tick" the heated seat box even if they live in Saudia Arabia where they would never want heated seats.

Any one renting out hardware features is holding you hostage.

and you defend this stupidity ?

 

[Mctaff]

Clueless, .......you already paid for the heated seats because the price of the car included the price that BMW had to pay to the supplier to have the hardware installed in the seat at the time of manufacture. BMW already paid for the materials inside the seat to heat it up. That is built into the price you paid.

YOU ALREADY PAID FOR THE HEATED SEAT HARDWARE.

And now you are cluelessly happy that you are only paying a bit more monthly to use those materials ?

Next BMW will sell you a car and then charge you to rent the tires or they will deflate.

clueless.

I have some rocks for sale, let me know if you are interested.

I am also selling some air.

I disagree… you haven’t already paid for the hardware. BMW have, and they are recovering their costs via a monthly payment rather than you paying for an option upfront

 

[Leonard]

I am in utter shock you are defending this....

every BMW will have the heated seat mechanism installed no matter what. BMW has to pay for that upgrade in the seats to be able to "rent" it out.

Every owner ALREADY did "tick" the heated seat box even if they live in Saudia Arabia where they would never want heated seats.

Any one renting out hardware features is holding you hostage.

and you defend this stupidity ?

Because there is no down side for the consumer lol.
Nobody complains that VW technically make 4 engines but have 30 different states of tune available THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR.
I guess I should still be pissed that my Emira isn't coming with 416bhp and a 7200 redline. Same hardware after all. Would I pay 20 a month to get it?
Possibly yes.
Nice that I get the choice and if I determine its not worth it to me its only cost me 20

 

[Mctaff]

Wrong,

What kinda goof is going to pay a monthly "rent" to get more performance ?

miss a month of "rent" and you car goes back to being slug ?

I think most would rather pay for a chip swap out.

you own the car, you own the title, and the company is holding you hostage on the hardware features ?

If you lease the car then these subscription services MIGHT make some sense.

If they offered a daily power subscription I’d take it. I don’t drive during the week and paying for Saturday alone should be significantly cheaper than paying upfront.

Monthly definitely wouldn’t make sense for me here though.

 

[kratedisease]

Sorry you are wrong
The economies of scale and smaller production lines will mean that its cheaper to build ALL cars with heated seats than a mix of both and fitting as and when ordered as an option.
And folk buy expensive rocks all the time and then fit them to even more expensive 'prescious' metals. Biggest scam going. Folk be much better off paying for useful stuff like heated seats

You are more than welcome to defend this stupidity. It is not my job to convince you otherwise.

You must be a big believer in Bitcoin also. god bless you.

BMW loves you

PM me if you are interested in some bottled air I have for sale.

The rocks I have for sale I found in my back yard. But the rock are only for rent while you hold them for me. The rocks are real nice, you would like them.

 

[Leonard]

You are more than welcome to defend this stupidity. It is not my job to convince you otherwise.

You must be a big believer in Bitcoin also. god bless you.

BMW loves you

PM me if you are interested in some bottled air I have for sale.

The rocks I have for sale I found in my back yard. But the rock are only for rent while you hold them for me. The rocks are real nice, you would like them.

Lol its all just another level of consumerism. From that perspective it's not stupid if it's costing the consumer the same or less than it currently does and also giving them more flexibility and choice.

 

[kratedisease]

Because there is no down side for the consumer lol.
Nobody complains that VW technically make 4 engines but have 30 different states of tune available THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR.
I guess I should still be pissed that my Emira isn't coming with 416bhp and a 7200 redline. Same hardware after all. Would I pay 20 a month to get it?
Possibly yes.
Nice that I get the choice and if I determine its not worth it to me its only cost me 20

let me guess.... you are 45yrs or younger..... and you own Bitcoin ?

This is the only way I can comprehend you defending this rental of features.