Jethro addresses 'the review'

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere. Just catching up with my EVO reading and saw Jethro addresses the claims of Porsche bias and corruption!
I think he just called YOU a nutter

 

[kitkat]

Yes, in that it wasn't a review at all. Top Gear's entire "review" last for a bit more than 7 minutes and mostly consisted of Chris sliding the car around a wet rainy track and giggling. Yes, it was good "Top Gear entertainment", and yes he said positive things, but you could hardly call it a proper review of the Emira.

I had the exact same thought, Topgear video review was only worth some wet drift video clips and zero other substance. Additionally, every single review video or magazine who compared the Emira to any other Porsche — in the end picked the Porsche.

Apparently to some people here — it’s all a big marketing dollars lie — Porsche makes terrible cars with huge sales figures solely based based on magazine reviews?

 

[kitkat]

I told you some guy had called Lotus a cult

Sometime this place is worse than Tesla forums.

 

[kitkat]

The correct Emira to compare with a Cayman GT4 is the Emira GT4.

Jethro took a pear and compared it to an apple. And got called out for doing so.

The correct comparison to a road legal sports car is a track only race car?

That’s certainly high praise for the Porsche.

Did you mean the Porsche GT4 Clubsport MR instead?

 

[Mctaff]

This VAG preference seems demonstrably false by looking at evo group tests.

Of course magazines get a decent whack of income through advertising… but don’t you think that Toyota and the other big players spend similar amounts to VAG?

 

[jmn444]

It's funny to me to see the exact type of people he's talking about in that article post in this thread... His review was fine, you just didn't like it. Get over it. Makes you look like an idiot.

I mean seriously, reviews are inherently opinion pieces. None of what he said was false. It's powertrain tech that is old and is constantly being complained about on these very pages for being LESS powerful than the outgoing model, yet somehow you people think he should be all excited about it and that his "so frustrating" comments aren't valid???

Move on and believe whichever review you want, it's silly to complain about someone else's opinion... although I guess that's exactly what I just did lol.

 

[kitkat]

I mean I understand the fans in here, many are financially and emotionally invested. They’re also traumatized by the lack of details from Lotus and they need to know they’ve placed their money on the right horse.

Just take a step back and realize the Emira will still be great for you, also realize that not every reviewer places value on a car the same way you might.

Now take a huge step back and realize — you haven’t even driven the car — the closest the entire forum has is TomE who has had a ride along

 

[xen]

It's funny to me to see the exact type of people he's talking about in that article post in this thread... His review was fine, you just didn't like it. Get over it. Makes you look like an idiot.

Pretty much covers it.

A more ‘rounded’ take from Chris here;

 

[NicolasB]

This VAG preference seems demonstrably false by looking at evo group tests.

I have a VAG preference, but not sure what it has to do with cars? Maybe it's why I don't own a Boxster?

 

[TomE]

I had the exact same thought, Topgear video review was only worth some wet drift video clips and zero other substance. Additionally, every single review video or magazine who compared the Emira to any other Porsche — in the end picked the Porsche.

Apparently to some people here — it’s all a big marketing dollars lie — Porsche makes terrible cars with huge sales figures solely based based on magazine reviews?

The detailed reviews and correct comparisons are in the print magazines of both Evo and Top Gear. TG has done an in-depth video review as well as the TV show, Evo’s online review is just the Jethro one.

I note Evo are still not owning up to misleading Lotus and their viewers/readers about the circumstances of the test. That’s what makes them look shady, more so than what they said about the Emira.

 

[Leonard]

Pretty much covers it.

A more ‘rounded’ take from Chris here;

And there you have it. No more arguing please
Do I actually want the i4 now and my very first auto

 

[Leonard]

The detailed reviews and correct comparisons are in the print magazines of both Evo and Top Gear. TG has done an in-depth video review as well as the TV show, Evo’s online review is just the Jethro one.

I note Evo are still not owning up to misleading Lotus and their viewers/readers about the circumstances of the test. That’s what makes them look shady, more so than what they said about the Emira.

I still don't really know why it's much of an issue. Other mags have taken non Sports suspension, non Cup 2 tyred cars to the track???
I agree it was too early for a back to back comparison with the GT4. But as Jethro said if you had one there for another test would you not reference it? Other mags are comparing the Emira to GTS and Alpine so why not the GT4
Without having driven the Emira my assessment is that Lotus have dialed in too much under steer for 'safety' and its been found wanting by those journalists that like to drive a car above 8 tenths. The Cup 2s would have helped but the issue would still be there. Unless speccing Sports suspension and Cup 2 tyres means Lotus radically alter the geometry for the better, in which case I feel like I have been mislead

 

[TomE]

I still don't really know why it's much of an issue. Other mags have taken non Sports suspension, non Cup 2 tyred cars to the track???
I agree it was too early for a back to back comparison with the GT4. But as Jethro said if you had one there for another test would you not reference it? Other mags are comparing the Emira to GTS and Alpine so why not the GT4
Without having driven the Emira my assessment is that Lotus have dialed in too much under steer for 'safety' and its been found wanting by those journalists that like to drive a car above 8 tenths. The Cup 2s would have helped but the issue would still be there. Unless speccing Sports suspension and Cup 2 tyres means Lotus radically alter the geometry for the better, in which case I feel like I have been mislead

Usually the arrangement when there are different variants of a car is the press reviewers say what test they’re doing and the manufacturer supplies the relevant car. Evo asked for a car to take down to Monaco with Sports suspension and Lotus, knowing it was likely to rain, fitted Goodyears.

After the Monaco trip, before Evo returned the car to Lotus, they took it to Anglesey (not exactly on the way back to Hethel). Where they happened to have a GT4 on loan from Porsche UK.

Evo didn’t tell Lotus beforehand they were going to Anglesey and didn’t tell them when they returned the car.

Evo wrote that Lotus had not been able to support them at Anglesey (for example to provide Cup2s), implying Lotus decided not to attend. They weren’t asked.

Afterwards Lotus offered to provide a car on Cup2s for a further test. Evo went ahead with publication before doing that test. Evo also broke the embargo and published before other reviews.

They’re entitled to their opinions on the car, that’s fine. I just think they should have given Lotus a fair chance and published the circumstances.

The geometry setup is different with the Cup2s.

 

[Leonard]

Usually the arrangement when there are different variants of a car is the press reviewers say what test they’re doing and the manufacturer supplies the relevant car. Evo asked for a car to take down to Monaco with Sports suspension and Lotus, knowing it was likely to rain, fitted Goodyears.

After the Monaco trip, before Evo returned the car to Lotus, they took it to Anglesey (not exactly on the way back to Hethel). Where they happened to have a GT4 on loan from Porsche UK.

Evo didn’t tell Lotus beforehand they were going to Anglesey and didn’t tell them when they returned the car.

Evo wrote that Lotus had not been able to support them at Anglesey (for example to provide Cup2s), implying Lotus decided not to attend. They weren’t asked.

Afterwards Lotus offered to provide a car on Cup2s for a further test. Evo went ahead with publication before doing that test. Evo also broke the embargo and published before other reviews.

They’re entitled to their opinions on the car, that’s fine. I just think they should have given Lotus a fair chance and published the circumstances.

The geometry setup is different with the Cup2s.

Yes I get that. But i very much doubt that it would have changed the tone of the review.
IF the Sports geometry means a positive change to the driving dynamic, then I think that really should have been mentioned in the specification and is in itself misleading simply saying its a firmer damper. I don't know why cars with the drivers pack wouldn't have the keenest geometry set up also.

 

[Eagle7]

I think because of the way the Emira looks, people want it to perform like the cars its looks compete with. It doesn't, and that's where the disappointment comes in. It performs quite well within its price point, which is something that I don't believe is emphasized enough in some reviews. Jethro demonstrates that he knows he wasn't exactly fair, by doing the standard way-over-the-top dramatic examples that nobody said to try and make his performance appear as not a big deal. The fact that he got the reaction he did was because it was a big deal, and it wasn't done quite honorably, which is a shame because it could have been. What really soured a lot of people was the comparison to a more expensive track focused Porsche set up for a track test that the Emira was not set up for. Blind-siding Lotus like that was not cool, and he knows it. I don't think it was deliberate, but he has enough experience to know better, and is feeling the sting of that.

His comment about Henry's observation is the first I've seen of Henry's thoughts. Has that been published anywhere? It just strikes me as odd that both he and Henry are saying the Emira steering didn't feel right, yet Chris Harris who certainly has the experience to know, has high praise for the steering. Two different pre-production cars with two completely different reactions to the steering from reviewers. Harry is shocked at how different the Sport chassis setup feels on the road than the Touring setup does, and changes his order as a result. Chris is driving a Touring setup and just loves how good it is on British roads, and although it's raining, he does his usual sliding around on the track. On the track he talks about how "sublime" the steering is. These contradictory reviews are what's causing some of the reactions.

These 'reviews' are all on pre-production cars which is probably the reason behind the contradictions, since no two cars are exactly the same. To me this is the real issue, and that's on Lotus. They should have picked one car with Touring, and one with Sport, set them up appropriately, and given those same cars to each preview/review group to drive. I believe that would have given a more consistent result in the impressions and reviews. This is what would happen if actual production cars were given for review; they'd all be built to the exact same settings, specs, tuning, software, etc. The hodge-podge of the pre-production thing has added to some of the confusion in my opinion, and should have at the very least been rigorously emphasized as previews; not reviews.

To be fair, I think the reality that the Emira is designed to be a £59,995 car at its base point, is where the comparisons should be made. It wasn't designed to be an FE; that model just happens to include pretty much all the options for the base model as a special deal, to help get the car off the ground sales-wise. They didn't realize they weren't going to need it; the looks alone is largely the reason behind it's pre-production sales. The fact that it's being considered as a possible alternative to a Cayman (or any Porsche for that matter) says more about the expectations its looks have created, than anything else.

My feelings are, that in a way, the inclusion of the V6 with manual was done somewhat as an homage to their past cars knowing that Lotus enthusiasts like manual transmissions. Many sports car enthusiasts do. The Emira IS the end of the ICE era for Lotus; their last ICE car, so there's somewhat of a tribute aspect to it. The V6 model is for those who just like to drive without necessarily being focused on 10/10 maximum performance. The i4 model is a nod to the current trends of power and DCT for those who want speed; the more the better, and the faster the better. That customer group will be different. It's good that the Emira is going to be sellable to both groups. I believe the backlog of orders for the V6 gives a hint at what the order book is going to look like for the i4.

Lotus has a hit on their hands, and it's due to looks that are better than most any other sports car currently being produced, and the incredible price point. The fact that the reviews say it's a great road car just ensures this will be a very successful model. Hopefully Lotus gets a reasonable dealer network in place to keep it all going.

 

[Nova]

This guy is a hack. Maybe he isn't always one, but this reaction of his shows him to be a hack in this instance. Here he is lumping all of the criticisms he received on his review into one indefensible caricature and proceeds to use that as his punching bag so that he can then celebrate a self-declared victory.

There was a lot of criticism of his review but very little of it was of the kind that would declare Lotus Emira as the ultimate best-car-ever. Justifiable questions were raised about the way his testing was carried out, the setup of the car, and his standard of comparison/analysis. Now he may not take well to this criticism, but that doesn't mean the criticism came from the same place as religious fanaticism. For him to characterize it this way is dishonest. The irony is that this guy says with a straight face that the Emira's engine isn't on the same planet as the Porsche engine - sure I can take that the Porsche engine is better, much better, even. But, not on the same planet? How's that for extreme fanatical absolutist language?

We all saw his review. It certainly did not communicate that there were "loads to like, tons of potential, some disappointments". Just listen to him groan at the 576-second mark of his review, he sounded like he had just come from a meeting hoping for a raise but instead was forced to smell sweaty Porsche executive socks for an hour.

 

[eriegz]

I have a VAG preference, but not sure what it has to do with cars? Maybe it's why I don't own a Boxster?

I'm glad somebody else on here is as childish as I am.

To me this thread just confirms what they always say about men: That all we ever talk about is cars and vag.

 

[Honeywell]

This VAG preference seems demonstrably false by looking at evo group tests.

Of course magazines get a decent whack of income through advertising… but don’t you think that Toyota and the other big players spend similar amounts to VAG?

NO. Vag spends 3 times more than Toyota on ads with Evo.

 

[xen]

Yes I get that. But i very much doubt that it would have changed the tone of the review.
IF the Sports geometry means a positive change to the driving dynamic, then I think that really should have been mentioned in the specification and is in itself misleading simply saying its a firmer damper. I don't know why cars with the drivers pack wouldn't have the keenest geometry set up also.

This is a point I don’t think is as discussed as it should. There appears to be significant differences between sports and touring setups - this is not the impression that was given.

 

[Honeywell]

It's funny to me to see the exact type of people he's talking about in that article post in this thread... His review was fine, you just didn't like it. Get over it. Makes you look like an idiot.

I mean seriously, reviews are inherently opinion pieces. None of what he said was false. It's powertrain tech that is old and is constantly being complained about on these very pages for being LESS powerful than the outgoing model, yet somehow you people think he should be all excited about it and that his "so frustrating" comments aren't valid???

Move on and believe whichever review you want, it's silly to complain about someone else's opinion... although I guess that's exactly what I just did lol.

Why is it silly to believe that a Journalist working for a magazine depending on advertising is influenced?

Audi, VW, Skoda, Seat, Porsche, Bentley, Lambourghini, - did I miss one? What's the combined ad spend and press officer junket budget?

Hethel has Sandra who handles PR and some biscuits.


The world is powered by money...

 

[Porter]

I agree it was too early for a back to back comparison with the GT4. But as Jethro said if you had one there for another test would you not reference it? Other mags are comparing the Emira to GTS and Alpine so why not the GT4

Because there's a massive delta in price. Massive. Emira V6 FE is at the very top of its options load to get to the price as tested. The GT4 is 12% higher than that with NO options. Adding similar options to the GT4, the price difference (at MSRP) is 24%. And that's without a shred of deviated stitching or other Porsche option madness.

And the GT4 can't be purchased anywhere that I am aware of for MSRP. With the dealer "extra cheese" of $30k-$50k ADM on top, a GT4 is likely 50% more expensive on the road compared to an Emira V6 FE.

THAT is why it isn't a fair test. It's all of this stuff taken together... it's not equivalent price class, and it isn't equivalent configured equipment. The class of tires wasn't fairly comparable. And to be honest the two cars don't even share equivalent development goals.

There is no way a reasonable person would look at the pricing and intent of the two products and conclude that one should be compared as a benchmark to the other. The GT products at Porsche are intended for a different audience and are more uncompromising as a result. A truly Emira-price-equivalent 718 Cayman wouldn't have fared well against that GT4 on the same track on the same day either. And EVO knew that. To pretend otherwise is just obnoxious.