KEF System Casual Analysis

[KJWEmira]

Can I inquire as to what you replaced everything with? Do you have pics? I am very interested in potentially changing out the audio, but waiting to hear and see others installs and what they did. I would LOVE to not lose any space anywhere and I was looking at the powered 8" from JL but that takes up the back bench and not sure I want to do that as I feel it would overwhelm the rest of the audio if I didn't change everything.. If I am going to change the other speakers to match that JL sub/amp combo, I might as well change out everything.

So what did you install and where? I would love to hear / see your install.

Thanks
Ryan G

Hi Ryan

Have a read through this thread (link Below) - It has all the information to answer your questions. However, should you have additional questions, or require more pictures of where everything was installed then please feel free to post again and I'll do my best.

I am based in Southeast UK. I've had so many requests from people to hear and see the car. I have met with many people either at shows / events or arranged mutual meeting points to demo everything prior to purchasing the Mounts - I see you're USA based though?

KEF Audio Upgrade Parts - Now Available!

As promised, here are the final 3D printed versions of the front and rear speaker mounts, & Amp Mount, allowing you to upgrade your KEF audio to a far superior system. The front mounts allow you to transform from a 3" speaker to any 6.5" speaker, and the rear mounts allow you to install any far...

www.emiraforum.com

 

[Mino]

It's not that hard... in the sense that the subwoofer is right back there along with the amp (and there fore all the necessary power connections). Personally, I would go with something like this:

ACP108LG-W3v3

Amplified Subwoofer System with Single 8W3v3-0.40 Subwoofer, Built-In 250W Class D Amplifier, Black Carpet - Ported Enclosure

 With MicroSub+™ systems, the power is built right into the subwoofer system. Housing a proprietary Class D amplifier, this incredible subwoofer system utilizes our...

www.jlaudio.com

This one is the next larger model, with a 10 inch driver:

ACP110LG-TW1

Amplified Subwoofer System with Single 10TW1-0.25 Subwoofer, Built-In 400W Class D Amplifier, Black Carpet - Ported Enclosure With MicroSub+™ systems, the power is built right into the subwoofer system. Housing a proprietary Class D amplifier, this incredible subwoofer system utilizes our...

www.jlaudio.com

Great thread Nava , thanks for that ! if my problem is primarly with the Bass , can I just add this Subwoofer book behind my car seat without the need to change anything else in the sound system ? will this require any other adjustments beside unplugging the OEM sub ? I honestly dont want to go through the process of replacing the whole sound system when my need is mainly just a little more clean bass ...what do you think ? would this solve my need ?

 

[Nova]

Great thread Nava , thanks for that ! if my problem is primarly with the Bass , can I just add this Subwoofer book behind my car seat without the need to change anything else in the sound system ? will this require any other adjustments beside unplugging the OEM sub ? I honestly dont want to go through the process of replacing the whole sound system when my need is mainly just a little more clean bass ...what do you think ? would this solve my need ?

Yea, I would think so. The OEM subwoofer is a dual voice coil design, and the installer would just need to tap one set of the wires to get the signal to an aftermarket subwoofer. They would then need to set the phase, crossover frequency, and level of the aftermarket subwoofer to get it dialed in. Nothing else would need to be replaced in this scenario.

 

[Nova]

Is there an easy way to get line level signal to an external sub? or getting high level power from the current sub location is the only option without tearing into the whole audio system?

Unfortunately, there isn't any way to get line level signal out of the system because the entire signal chain uses a A2B digital data bus. Your only option is to tap the high level signals from the subwoofer amplifier output.

 

[Eagle7]

Having spent some time listening to my system while the car was sitting in the garage, I was surprised at how rich the sound was. Out on the road? That quality isn't there. I suspect road noise (which is more than I would like) is generating frequencies that are effectively canceling those frequencies from the sound system.

I'm going to try sound dampening material on the backsides of the wheel well liners first, and see what that does. After that, I may try putting some sound deadener on the firewall behind the seats. I'd like to knock down the noise level by at least 3db, and also see what a difference it makes in the quality of the sound from the sound system.

 

[scc.131.fe]

So 600 miles in and I've done several "resets" on the audio settings and played with the Emira EQ, but it doesn't even sound like I have a subwoofer in the car. But this has all been with Spotify via wireless Android Auto.

I was just cruising youtube and found a video (link below) in which the good gentleman shows how to adjust audio quality settings in the Spotify App. No surprise, mine were set to medium for cellular and wifi. Attempting to select "Very High" on all quality settings I realized that I can't unless I subscribe to Spotify Premium. I can only select High.

I also realized there is a separate EQ within the Spotify app. So I hope to take a drive tonight and see if there is a difference already (meduim to high quality) via wifi, and then will also test with a USB connection for Spotify, and then will play with the Spotify EQ. Will report back but wanted to share this asap and see if anyone else has noticed a big difference with Spotify settings. Especially anyone with a Premium account that can attest to whether "Very High" is worth the price of admission.

 

[seriously]

Having spent some time listening to my system while the car was sitting in the garage, I was surprised at how rich the sound was. Out on the road? That quality isn't there. I suspect road noise (which is more than I would like) is generating frequencies that are effectively canceling those frequencies from the sound system.

I'm going to try sound dampening material on the backsides of the wheel well liners first, and see what that does. After that, I may try putting some sound deadener on the firewall behind the seats. I'd like to knock down the noise level by at least 3db, and also see what a difference it makes in the quality of the sound from the sound system.

You might be onto something. This kind of observation reminds me that this is the first time KEF has designed audio for a car. That novelty combined with lotus’ approach to road testing doesn’t surprise me that this is a use case that was not thoroughly vetted. As in- KEF probably knows a lot about a static highly controlled environment. The context of a car cockpit, road noise, etc- probably not something KEF understands well. Kind of annoying as basic car audio would seem so easy now only separated by fidelity. However, this KEF system is the opposite of idiot proof and doesn’t do some basic things well even if it works sometimes under some conditions.

 

[Rapture]

Having spent some time listening to my system while the car was sitting in the garage, I was surprised at how rich the sound was. Out on the road? That quality isn't there. I suspect road noise (which is more than I would like) is generating frequencies that are effectively canceling those frequencies from the sound system.

I'm going to try sound dampening material on the backsides of the wheel well liners first, and see what that does. After that, I may try putting some sound deadener on the firewall behind the seats. I'd like to knock down the noise level by at least 3db, and also see what a difference it makes in the quality of the sound from the sound system.

I'd like to add some sound dampening material also, probably over the winter (Wisconsin) mostly just behind the seats, and below the rear shelf. I would think this would also help with gearbox noise. Let us know what product you are thinking of using, etc.

 

[Eagle7]

I'd like to add some sound dampening material also, probably over the winter (Wisconsin) mostly just behind the seats, and below the rear shelf. I would think this would also help with gearbox noise. Let us know what product you are thinking of using, etc.

I use Damplifier Pro from secondskinaudio. It's not asphalt based so it doesn't smell, it's lightweight, easy to apply and works well. It's a sound dampener, which is different from a sound deadener or sound block. A dampener stops a body panel or part from vibrating. Road noise generates frequencies, that depending on the part, can cause what's known as 'sympathetic vibration' where a certain frequency causes a part to resonate and start vibrating at that same frequency. If you've ever stood next to a piano that has the top up, and simply yell, you'll note how several of the strings are now vibrating in response. It's that effect.

Large panels tend to be the most susceptible, so areas like door panels, wheel well liners, etc. are the first I look at. What I do is listen to the frequencies I hear the most or the loudest while driving, then when I have the car home, I take a rubber mallet or screwdriver with a wooden handle (depending on the size of the part and where it is), and start tapping around on various areas, listening to see if they respond at around the same frequencies I hear in the car when driving. If they're close, I apply a piece of damplifier, usually in the middle, and tap on it again. With a dampener, you don't need to cover the whole piece or area, you just need enough to change the frequency at which the part resonates. It's like putting your hand on the piano strings to stop them from vibrating.

Once I've done that, then I go out for a test drive and see how effective it was. Sometimes I have to add more elsewhere, but if you're patient and thorough, you'll get it under control.

A sound deadener is thicker and heavier, and designed to literally absorb and block sound. Typically a one foot square piece will weigh a pound, while a piece of Damplifier twice the size weighs ounces. To completely deaden the firewall and shelf behind the sheets, will probably take around 10+ sq feet I'm guessing, which is adding at least 10 lbs. If I have to go that route, I'll do the rubber mallet test to see what sounds that area makes. If it's resonating, some Damplifier may do the trick. If that doesn't do it enough, I can still put deadener on top of it, although I probably wouldn't need as much as a straight cover-all.

I'll get both products from secondskinaudio. Their website has a lot of good info and products for sound control, not only in a car, but in rooms as well.

 

[seriously]

Natural frequencies and resonance are fascinating natural phenomena. I wonder why we don’t have more advanced tech built on these principles.

 

[Porter]

Natural frequencies and resonance are fascinating natural phenomena. I wonder why we don’t have more advanced tech built on these principles.

We do.

 

[seriously]

We do.

What’s a good example?

 

[Porter]

What’s a good example?

I don't want to derail the thread with off topic stuff, so I'll just say that the field of sonic weapons has exploded in the last 1 to 2 decades. Look up LRADs.

 

[Johnson]

I use Damplifier Pro from secondskinaudio. It's not asphalt based so it doesn't smell, it's lightweight, easy to apply and works well. It's a sound dampener, which is different from a sound deadener or sound block. A dampener stops a body panel or part from vibrating. Road noise generates frequencies, that depending on the part, can cause what's known as 'sympathetic vibration' where a certain frequency causes a part to resonate and start vibrating at that same frequency. If you've ever stood next to a piano that has the top up, and simply yell, you'll note how several of the strings are now vibrating in response. It's that effect.

Large panels tend to be the most susceptible, so areas like door panels, wheel well liners, etc. are the first I look at. What I do is listen to the frequencies I hear the most or the loudest while driving, then when I have the car home, I take a rubber mallet or screwdriver with a wooden handle (depending on the size of the part and where it is), and start tapping around on various areas, listening to see if they respond at around the same frequencies I hear in the car when driving. If they're close, I apply a piece of damplifier, usually in the middle, and tap on it again. With a dampener, you don't need to cover the whole piece or area, you just need enough to change the frequency at which the part resonates. It's like putting your hand on the piano strings to stop them from vibrating.

Once I've done that, then I go out for a test drive and see how effective it was. Sometimes I have to add more elsewhere, but if you're patient and thorough, you'll get it under control.

A sound deadener is thicker and heavier, and designed to literally absorb and block sound. Typically a one foot square piece will weigh a pound, while a piece of Damplifier twice the size weighs ounces. To completely deaden the firewall and shelf behind the sheets, will probably take around 10+ sq feet I'm guessing, which is adding at least 10 lbs. If I have to go that route, I'll do the rubber mallet test to see what sounds that area makes. If it's resonating, some Damplifier may do the trick. If that doesn't do it enough, I can still put deadener on top of it, although I probably wouldn't need as much as a straight cover-all.

I'll get both products from secondskinaudio. Their website has a lot of good info and products for sound control, not only in a car, but in rooms as well.

I don’t think we have Damplifier in Australia. I lined the entire tub of my MX-5 with Dynamat… just because I was curious. Probably a bit silly to sound-deaden a convertible, but it did quite drastically change the sound dynamics of the car. No more road noise, easier to hear the stereo… but wind noise became a LOT more noticeable

 

[Rapture]

I use Damplifier Pro from secondskinaudio. It's not asphalt based so it doesn't smell, it's lightweight, easy to apply and works well. It's a sound dampener, which is different from a sound deadener or sound block. A dampener stops a body panel or part from vibrating. Road noise generates frequencies, that depending on the part, can cause what's known as 'sympathetic vibration' where a certain frequency causes a part to resonate and start vibrating at that same frequency. If you've ever stood next to a piano that has the top up, and simply yell, you'll note how several of the strings are now vibrating in response. It's that effect.

Large panels tend to be the most susceptible, so areas like door panels, wheel well liners, etc. are the first I look at. What I do is listen to the frequencies I hear the most or the loudest while driving, then when I have the car home, I take a rubber mallet or screwdriver with a wooden handle (depending on the size of the part and where it is), and start tapping around on various areas, listening to see if they respond at around the same frequencies I hear in the car when driving. If they're close, I apply a piece of damplifier, usually in the middle, and tap on it again. With a dampener, you don't need to cover the whole piece or area, you just need enough to change the frequency at which the part resonates. It's like putting your hand on the piano strings to stop them from vibrating.

Once I've done that, then I go out for a test drive and see how effective it was. Sometimes I have to add more elsewhere, but if you're patient and thorough, you'll get it under control.

A sound deadener is thicker and heavier, and designed to literally absorb and block sound. Typically a one foot square piece will weigh a pound, while a piece of Damplifier twice the size weighs ounces. To completely deaden the firewall and shelf behind the sheets, will probably take around 10+ sq feet I'm guessing, which is adding at least 10 lbs. If I have to go that route, I'll do the rubber mallet test to see what sounds that area makes. If it's resonating, some Damplifier may do the trick. If that doesn't do it enough, I can still put deadener on top of it, although I probably wouldn't need as much as a straight cover-all.

I'll get both products from secondskinaudio. Their website has a lot of good info and products for sound control, not only in a car, but in rooms as well.

Hey Eagle, thanks for all of that detail. Sounds like the same principal that is used when Kohler puts small pieces of material on their stainless-steel sinks to quiet them down. It would be nice to have a dedicated thread on this topic in the future once you have completed more of your investigation/install.

 

[Eagle7]

Hey Eagle, thanks for all of that detail. Sounds like the same principal that is used when Kohler puts small pieces of material on their stainless-steel sinks to quiet them down. It would be nice to have a dedicated thread on this topic in the future once you have completed more of your investigation/install.

I'm about to start a project journal thread. I have 72 miles left to reach the 1,000 mile mark, then I'm going to take the car to a dyno shop and get a dyno run to have a baseline of power to the rear wheels stock. I'm going to get it weighed, and I'll add back the 30 lbs removed when I replaced the factory battery with the Antigravity one, and that will give me a baseline weight for a factory stock FE V6 with manual trans, and leather interior.

Once I get the dyno run, I'll do an oil change which will include the engine and transmission.

I already ordered the Eventuri which just arrived, and I'll document the installation, weight of it compared to the factory airbox, and then back to the dyno shop for another run for a before/after comparison.

I also have a set of custom forged wheels coming from Aerie, so I'll get those weighed too and compare them to the factory wheels. At that time once I have the wheels off, I'll look at the wheel well liners to see if there's any dampening material on the backs; if not, I'll see about adding some.

It'll be a step-by-step project thread as I go along. It'll cover everything I do, rather than creating separate threads for each of them. I'll try and be as thorough as I can about what I do, what I use, where I got it, etc. I'm guessing sometime in the next two weeks I'll get it started, once I have the baseline numbers, charts and data to post.

 

[Eagle7]

I don’t think we have Damplifier in Australia. I lined the entire tub of my MX-5 with Dynamat… just because I was curious. Probably a bit silly to sound-deaden a convertible, but it did quite drastically change the sound dynamics of the car. No more road noise, easier to hear the stereo… but wind noise became a LOT more noticeable

They're in North Carolina. You could contact them and see if they ship to Australia.

Second Skin Audio - Contact Us

Get help with your project, place an order, or provide feedback. We are committed to providing the best customer service in the industry!

www.secondskinaudio.com

 

[seriously]

Spent an hour in traffic today toggling through different songs and EQ setups. My uninformed observations...

I'm getting more used to the front and center sound stage. That was bothering me before as I prefer "in ear" staging.

Somehow, this system seems to produce really clear and loud voices, but softer music. There is a kind of separation between the vocal track and music track that seems intention and part of the issue (for me). When you crank up the EQ on all three levels (bass, treble and mid), you can hear the music better, but the sound mix is very crowded and not right. Instead, reducing the EQ to normal and boosting only the Bass and then increasing the volume a lot more than I would normally, allowed the music to be heard in a more balanced fashion. I also found that this system doesn't do well with big boomy bass from older hip hop songs (not that I listen to too much of it).

This system is not terrible, but it's a funny thing. I'm totally unfamiliar with KEF, but it feels like they put a system optimized for classical or jazz music into a noisy car environment and didn't realize most people listen to pop music while cruising at 75 mph.

 

[KJWEmira]

Hey Eagle, thanks for all of that detail. Sounds like the same principal that is used when Kohler puts small pieces of material on their stainless-steel sinks to quiet them down. It would be nice to have a dedicated thread on this topic in the future once you have completed more of your investigation/install.

Hey Gents,

Should this information help - This is how my sound deadening project turned out. Ended up installing "Skinz" to both front doors and the whole of the rear compartment. I used a whole box, which adds approx. 14kgs, but it was worth the gain and here's why -
The difference it has made is unbelievable, even the sound the doors make when shutting is better and feel more solid. The only piece already in the car is stuck onto the bulkhead of the engine compartment - you have to reuse this due to how the interior bulkhead trim is manufactured.
I no longer get the noise of stones flicking up, not to mention slightly yelling at my passenger.....yet I can still hear the engine, supercharger & much-loved exhaust. Phone calls are also greatly improved!

 

[KJWEmira]

I'm about to start a project journal thread. I have 72 miles left to reach the 1,000 mile mark, then I'm going to take the car to a dyno shop and get a dyno run to have a baseline of power to the rear wheels stock. I'm going to get it weighed, and I'll add back the 30 lbs removed when I replaced the factory battery with the Antigravity one, and that will give me a baseline weight for a factory stock FE V6 with manual trans, and leather interior.

Once I get the dyno run, I'll do an oil change which will include the engine and transmission.

I already ordered the Eventuri which just arrived, and I'll document the installation, weight of it compared to the factory airbox, and then back to the dyno shop for another run for a before/after comparison.

I also have a set of custom forged wheels coming from Aerie, so I'll get those weighed too and compare them to the factory wheels. At that time once I have the wheels off, I'll look at the wheel well liners to see if there's any dampening material on the backs; if not, I'll see about adding some.

It'll be a step-by-step project thread as I go along. It'll cover everything I do, rather than creating separate threads for each of them. I'll try and be as thorough as I can about what I do, what I use, where I got it, etc. I'm guessing sometime in the next two weeks I'll get it started, once I have the baseline numbers, charts and data to post.

Hey Eagle7,

How does the Eventuri look in the flesh? This is my next purchase because it looks awesome, should give a little gain and better induction noise. Would you say it's worth the high price tag?
Installation looks straight forward - I took a wheel off + the arch liner and everything is within easy grasp.

Cheers.