KEF System Casual Analysis

[TomAce]

@Nova: I'm impressed by your skills!

And I look forward to seeing more brilliant content in this thread.

I also think that the KEF audio system has an excellent sound in the mids and highs. At home I have some good old Elac FS 209 Anniversary edition loudspeakers which sound phenomenally with their AMTs and are linear, so almost no sounding, very neutral.

With this "sound memory" of my home audio I found the KEF system to be rather predominant in the higher frequencies.

I set the equalizer like you to -2 treble, but also mids to -1 mids and 0 bass.

I would like to raise the bass, but I already have some resonances /vibrations in the cabin, especially of course with bassy songs. This is my only concern with the sound system. I hope to get this resolved one day.

But I really like to listen to this KEF system when I sit in in the car in my garage, engine off. It's almost a pity you have so much NVH in the car when driving, but at least at standstill I can fully enjoy it.

 

[virtualmacho]

Assuming this is the way all Emiras are made, would the quick and dirty fix be to set the equalizer settings in the app used (Spotify, Amazon Music, etc.) and increase the 200Hz range by about 6-8 dB to compensate?

 

[Nova]

Excellent effort, and perfectly acceptable considering the environment you're testing. That dramatic drop at 150-250 hz is very unusual. I can't imagine they saw that when setting up the system and just decided to ignore it.

I don't recall if you said what type of interior you have. Is it leather or Alcantara?

Right, I can't imagine that either since the rest of the system shows that someone was looking at measurements.

I have leather seats, which is definitely more reflective than Alcantara but I feel that this would only have marginal effects since Alcantara is also non-porous. The main way that furniture can help damp sound waves in a cabin is by absorption: sound waves travel through the furniture covering, encounter foam or fibers, slows down, and dissipates energy. There is less of that happening with a non-porous covering like leather and alcantara.

 

[Nova]

Assuming this is the way all Emiras are made, would the quick and dirty fix be to set the equalizer settings in the app used (Spotify, Amazon Music, etc.) and increase the 200Hz range by about 6-8 dB to compensate?

That depends on how the NULL got there. If it was due to cabin modes or drivers being out of phase, then no amount of EQ adjustment will correct it. If it was due to natural driver characteristics, you could correct it with EQ but the boost would likely cause distortion since the driver is being forced to produce sound that it is naturally inefficient at producing (hence the null).

There is an edge case where the crossover settings in the sound system left this gap as a setting error, in which case boosting via EQ simply restores the power output in this region, and it would indeed correct the issue. However, in that case, the 8dB boost may run into the input limiter, because most digital input limiter settings leave a 3-6dB headroom before kicking in. The ultimate effect of this would be that the max volume of the system would be decreased.

As a general rule, EQs should mostly cut peaks. Filling in valleys should be limited to mild adjustments of 3dB or less.

 

[lynchy73]

I’d be very curious to measure the bass response and harmonic distortion with windows closed and also open. Measured at relatively high sound levels. If it were possible, it would be very interesting to see distortion levels with windows open whilst driving as that is when bass goes from being quite reasonable (windows closed) to horrible with even a slightly open window.

I now just leave the bass quite low to mask the distortion.

 

[Eagle7]

I finally got a chance to just sit in the car and set up the audio settings. I pressed the Reset the Audio button, then started setting this up. Based on all that I had read in here about how weak the bass was, I was not expecting what my system put out for bass. I have a LOT of bass. I checked the EQ and they're all at 0. I started by just choosing a local digital FM station that has news and talk radio. I was very surprised at the amount of bass I was getting. I thought maybe it was just that broadcast, so I started scanning through the stations and they all sound pretty good.

All this is while I'm sitting in the car in my garage, engine off and windows up. Good clarity in the mid to highs, and plenty of lows. Maybe I got lucky, I don't know, but my system actually sounds pretty good. I can hear that the sound is tight, doesn't have the warmth yet that a system that's been broken in will have, but so far so good. I'm going to load some music onto a thumb drive and see what that sounds like. I'll try using it out on the road too, but just sitting in the car I was impressed. Better than what I was expecting from reading all the reports from others.

 

[Nova]

I finally got a chance to just sit in the car and set up the audio settings. I pressed the Reset the Audio button, then started setting this up. Based on all that I had read in here about how weak the bass was, I was not expecting what my system put out for bass. I have a LOT of bass. I checked the EQ and they're all at 0. I started by just choosing a local digital FM station that has news and talk radio. I was very surprised at the amount of bass I was getting. I thought maybe it was just that broadcast, so I started scanning through the stations and they all sound pretty good.

All this is while I'm sitting in the car in my garage, engine off and windows up. Good clarity in the mid to highs, and plenty of lows. Maybe I got lucky, I don't know, but my system actually sounds pretty good. I can hear that the sound is tight, doesn't have the warmth yet that a system that's been broken in will have, but so far so good. I'm going to load some music onto a thumb drive and see what that sounds like. I'll try using it out on the road too, but just sitting in the car I was impressed. Better than what I was expecting from reading all the reports from others.

Yes, your impression of the bass matches mine. It's *a lot* of bass, just not good extension. It definitely sounds excessive in the bass just parked. Once you start the car and drive it, the bass will seem more balanced.

Resetting the Audio Settings should be something new owners do by default.

 

[lynchy73]

I finally got a chance to just sit in the car and set up the audio settings. I pressed the Reset the Audio button, then started setting this up. Based on all that I had read in here about how weak the bass was, I was not expecting what my system put out for bass. I have a LOT of bass. I checked the EQ and they're all at 0. I started by just choosing a local digital FM station that has news and talk radio. I was very surprised at the amount of bass I was getting. I thought maybe it was just that broadcast, so I started scanning through the stations and they all sound pretty good.

All this is while I'm sitting in the car in my garage, engine off and windows up. Good clarity in the mid to highs, and plenty of lows. Maybe I got lucky, I don't know, but my system actually sounds pretty good. I can hear that the sound is tight, doesn't have the warmth yet that a system that's been broken in will have, but so far so good. I'm going to load some music onto a thumb drive and see what that sounds like. I'll try using it out on the road too, but just sitting in the car I was impressed. Better than what I was expecting from reading all the reports from others.

Nothing wrong with the audio when parked, with engine off. Yes, there is plenty of bass as well. Problems start when driving and windows are open. Bass goes from being quite clean and powerful to a distorting mess once a window is opened at any sort of speed.

Doesn’t bother me too much as I now keep the bass low, mids/highs boosted a little to mask it and this is not the car where I need an amazing audio system. However, I’m a bit of a problem solver and I like to understand and fix stuff, so I would like to improve that shortfall, without ripping the car to bits and installing a crazy audio system. For me personally, making the best of what is already installed is far more interesting than going crazy with top of the line speakers, amps and audio treatments.

 

[Nova]

I have been driving around with the windows open but not listening to the radio. I need to try that one of these days.

When I open the window, it's typically to experience the sound of the car, so I don't usually have the radio on.

 

[Davebeats]

I'm wondering now how hard it would be to wire up an external subwoofer and ditch the factory one. Possibly one of these

Kicker 11HS8

Hideaway™ compact powered subwoofer with 8" sub and 150- watt amp

www.crutchfield.com

 

[Eagle7]

Anybody try playing with the Vehicle Speed Compensation settings, low, medium, high?

 

[Nova]

Anybody try playing with the Vehicle Speed Compensation settings, low, medium, high?

I generally turn these types of features off because it's impossible to tell what they are doing. Some just increase the volume, but others apply an EQ curve to them and it's an unknown what the EQ curve is. So in general, I turn it off and see if I can live with it. If it truly bothers me, I would turn it on the lowest setting and see.

 

[Nova]

I'm wondering now how hard it would be to wire up an external subwoofer and ditch the factory one. Possibly one of these

Kicker 11HS8

Hideaway™ compact powered subwoofer with 8" sub and 150- watt amp

www.crutchfield.com

It's not that hard... in the sense that the subwoofer is right back there along with the amp (and there fore all the necessary power connections). Personally, I would go with something like this:

ACP108LG-W3v3

Amplified Subwoofer System with Single 8W3v3-0.40 Subwoofer, Built-In 250W Class D Amplifier, Black Carpet - Ported Enclosure

 With MicroSub+™ systems, the power is built right into the subwoofer system. Housing a proprietary Class D amplifier, this incredible subwoofer system utilizes our...

www.jlaudio.com

This one is the next larger model, with a 10 inch driver:

ACP110LG-TW1

Amplified Subwoofer System with Single 10TW1-0.25 Subwoofer, Built-In 400W Class D Amplifier, Black Carpet - Ported Enclosure With MicroSub+™ systems, the power is built right into the subwoofer system. Housing a proprietary Class D amplifier, this incredible subwoofer system utilizes our...

www.jlaudio.com

 

[KJWEmira]

I was reading this thread and thought I would shed some light on the OEM subwoofer we all have installed.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....I'll try my best to be polite / PC:-

Take a look at the pictures attached. This is my sub that had to be removed due to all the same reasons you are all describing - sorry, but I found the KEF audio poor & not up to standard....it certainly does not match the looks of the car.

The sub measurements basically make it a 6X9 speaker which only produces bass. It weighs in at just 1.45kg or 3.2lbs....
For comparison, one of the 6.5" speakers I have now installed to my doors weighs the same.
I've personally not come across Its "free-to-air" design before, nor would I recommend one - this is why the sound / bass changes when you have a window open or closed.

If you hear a "thud" when you open the door in the mornings - its this sub doing that. I've not heard this sound after its removal.

Lastly, when I removed my sub it had water inside due to the free-to-air design. Pic 5 shows the drain hole which faces down when the sub is installed in the car - have you ever known a sub / speaker to require a drain hole??

 

[RyanGphoto]

I was reading this thread and thought I would shed some light on the OEM subwoofer we all have installed.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....I'll try my best to be polite / PC:-

Take a look at the pictures attached. This is my sub that had to be removed due to all the same reasons you are all describing - sorry, but I found the KEF audio poor & not up to standard....it certainly does not match the looks of the car.

The sub measurements basically make it a 6X9 speaker which only produces bass. It weighs in at just 1.45kg or 3.2lbs....
For comparison, one of the 6.5" speakers I have now installed to my doors weighs the same.
I've personally not come across Its "free-to-air" design before, nor would I recommend one - this is why the sound / bass changes when you have a window open or closed.

If you hear a "thud" when you open the door in the mornings - its this sub doing that. I've not heard this sound after its removal.

Lastly, when I removed my sub it had water inside due to the free-to-air design. Pic 5 shows the drain hole which faces down when the sub is installed in the car - have you ever known a sub / speaker to require a drain hole??

Can I inquire as to what you replaced everything with? Do you have pics? I am very interested in potentially changing out the audio, but waiting to hear and see others installs and what they did. I would LOVE to not lose any space anywhere and I was looking at the powered 8" from JL but that takes up the back bench and not sure I want to do that as I feel it would overwhelm the rest of the audio if I didn't change everything.. If I am going to change the other speakers to match that JL sub/amp combo, I might as well change out everything.

So what did you install and where? I would love to hear / see your install.

Thanks
Ryan G

 

[Wiz33]

I was reading this thread and thought I would shed some light on the OEM subwoofer we all have installed.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news....I'll try my best to be polite / PC:-

Take a look at the pictures attached. This is my sub that had to be removed due to all the same reasons you are all describing - sorry, but I found the KEF audio poor & not up to standard....it certainly does not match the looks of the car.

The sub measurements basically make it a 6X9 speaker which only produces bass. It weighs in at just 1.45kg or 3.2lbs....
For comparison, one of the 6.5" speakers I have now installed to my doors weighs the same.
I've personally not come across Its "free-to-air" design before, nor would I recommend one - this is why the sound / bass changes when you have a window open or closed.

If you hear a "thud" when you open the door in the mornings - its this sub doing that. I've not heard this sound after its removal.

Lastly, when I removed my sub it had water inside due to the free-to-air design. Pic 5 shows the drain hole which faces down when the sub is installed in the car - have you ever known a sub / speaker to require a drain hole??

open air sub is also known as ported sub which is very common. see all the sub box with an extra opening, it's the same principle. it's just this one have it in the back, which I have seen in some home units. but having the port exposed to the elements and having to provide a drain hole is a poor design decision. Luckily, I live in a low humidity area.

 

[dgrace]

open air sub is also known as ported sub which is very common. see all the sub box with an extra opening, it's the same principle. it's just this one have it in the back, which I have seen in some home units. but having the port exposed to the elements and having to provide a drain hole is a poor design decision. Luckily, I live in a low humidity area.

Yeah except those ported sub boxes don't have windows that roll down.

 

[Wiz33]

Yeah except those ported sub boxes don't have windows that roll down.

All the JL Audio sub box are ported design but there's some that uses infinity baffle but ported design tends to require less power, probably why they went with it.

 

[Wiz33]

Is there an easy way to get line level signal to an external sub? or getting high level power from the current sub location is the only option without tearing into the whole audio system?

 

[Johnson]

Lastly, when I removed my sub it had water inside due to the free-to-air design. Pic 5 shows the drain hole which faces down when the sub is installed in the car - have you ever known a sub / speaker to require a drain hole??

You had WATER in your sub?? Yikes.