Lotus Advanced Performance - new division announced focusing on bespoke vehicles and customer experiences

andrew6382 · Feb 9, 2022

TomE said:
I’ve just had a quick look and both Porsche and Jaguar are offering deals at 5.9%, the same as Lotus. I’m sure there are some differences around the edges. And of course you can get a better deal if you try elsewhere. Could Lotus make the process easier? Probably. whilst they acknowledged they could have done things differently, they were not going to change the approach.

OK.. I was offered a dealer contrubtion on the F Type.... with my 15K which yes 5.9% today but better deal, but resale not so good down the line

Porsche at dealer cheaper.....

But what does also help getting a better deal is not having to bundle up zero value items in with your finance

Could not change the deposit , but you can see the dealer contribution

Tom is any of what I have said un-true.....

TomE · Feb 9, 2022

andrew6382 said:
Tom I understand you are perhaps our best ally.... But what does worry me is that yes you have expressed many of our views to senior lotus folks..... as you have said " whilst they acknowledged they could have done things differently, they were not going to change the approach " basicly they well xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I will let others fill in the gaps.

With this kind of hubris I feel many of use are floging a dead horse if we are expecting change, most of it must be lip service.... to placate use ?

As the days pass since I visited Hethel and was told improvements would be made, I see no evidence of any significant changes. Things I was told were already in the pipeline have happened, but they were already planned. None of the things I was told would be looked into have materialised ... yet. Mis-communication and lack of clarification has continued - US V6 FE situation, EU delivery dates, no contact with UK deposit holders who were told last year "we'll contact you in January". They seem intent on not listening, hiding behind the dealers in US/ROW and saying almost nothing proactively in the UK.

Their plan includes press reviews and more info on i4/base in March. Anything more than that will be an unexpected surprise.

TomE · Feb 9, 2022

andrew6382 said:
OK.. I was offered a dealer contrubtion on the F Type.... with my 15K which yes 5.9% today but better deal, but resale not so good down the line

Porsche at dealer cheaper.....

But what does also help getting a better deal is not having to bundle up zero value items in with your finance

Could not change the deposit , but you can see the dealer contribution

Tom is any of what I have said un-true.....

View attachment 2993

This is a pointless debate. You started this tangent saying Lotus weren't giving finance options, only illustrations, and there were better options on finance deals elsewhere. Most people looking at finance know this.

Then you said Lotus needed to be more flexible and other manufacturers were offering better deals. I've looked at headline rates and they appear the same.

You say if you speak to Porsche dealers you can get a better deal - great but not published by them. You've found a manufacturer who will include a dealer contribution (so basically a discount off the list price) - great - but you've said their residuals are worse. Both companies have published headline finance rates that are identical to the Lotus one. You say a BMW dealer can offer other lenders - great but Lotus and many others don't.

There is a whole thread about alternative UK finance options, which you started, where this discussion would be better suited: https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/olternative-finance-options.778/

Can we get back to the original topic of this thread - the announcement about the new Advanced Performance Division?

EM33RA · Feb 9, 2022

TomE said:
As the days pass since I visited Hethel and was told improvements would be made, I see no evidence of any significant changes. Things I was told were already in the pipeline have happened, but they were already planned. None of the things I was told would be looked into have materialised ... yet. Mis-communication and lack of clarification has continued - US V6 FE situation, EU delivery dates, no contact with UK deposit holders who were told last year "we'll contact you in January". They seem intent on not listening, hiding behind the dealers in US/ROW and saying almost nothing proactively in the UK.

Their plan includes press reviews and more info on i4/base in March. Anything more than that will be an unexpected surprise.

They simply don’t get it mate. You can invest all you want and puff your chest out by using key statements as we want to be a global business with major brand awareness blah blah blah… Yet carry on business without any changes from previous… I genuinely worry about the build quality of the Emira but I’m more than happy to be proven totally wrong…

Ignorance is not bliss per say for Lotus….

TXEMIRA · Feb 9, 2022

85% of me feels cheated.

1. Poor timing for this announcement as anyone with the brand in mind is trying to buy an Emira. This just adds more questions to a long list of unanswered questions.

2. Hiring someone with this talent means a team will follow. A team means for costs. That investment, if channeled into Emira communication first, would bring a greater return.

3. Why announce with zero specificity? It’s as early as a thought…

The other 15% of me is excited that maybe I don’t get a V6 FE allocation and timing works out that I can get a Bespoke version. A V6 BE…

#ForTheWondering

DF_Toronto · Feb 9, 2022

TXEMIRA said:
85% of me feels cheated.

1. Poor timing for this announcement as anyone with the brand in mind is trying to buy an Emira. This just adds more questions to a long list of unanswered questions.

2. Hiring someone with this talent means a team will follow. A team means for costs. That investment, if channeled into Emira communication first, would bring a greater return.

3. Why announce with zero specificity? It’s as early as a thought…

The other 15% of me is excited that maybe I don’t get a V6 FE allocation and timing works out that I can get a Bespoke version. A V6 BE…

#ForTheWondering

I just created a poll here to try and use the community to get an answer that hasn't been given from Lotus. I don't see it in the main page so I'm not sure how to get it there. Here's the link.

POLL: Deposit day for those either offered a V6 FE or placed their V6 FE order

TomE · Feb 9, 2022

EM33RA said:
They simply don’t get it mate. You can invest all you want and puff your chest out by using key statements as we want to be a global business with major brand awareness blah blah blah… Yet carry on business without any changes from previous… I genuinely worry about the build quality of the Emira but I’m more than happy to be proven totally wrong…

Ignorance is not bliss per say for Lotus….

I've seen the change in production capability from old factory to new factory, part built cars, painted body panels, interiors, mechanical and electrical components. I know the people they've hired from Toyota, Nissan, Bentley etc to work on design-for-quality, production engineering, procurement, QA. I think they have a very good chance of achieving a major step up in quality. Whether they can add a whole new second shift of newly-hired people later this year and still sustain that, I don't know.

Sadly I can't see any improvement in customer experience or dealer involvement (or consistency or standards) in the UK, US or any other country. It's actually got worse in the UK with the shift to a direct model. And the recent emergence of markups in the US from long-standing dealers is a customer and PR disaster. I also see no evidence of anything improving yet in terms of aftersales capability - spares provision or dealer servicing.

So it's great we can look forward to a bespoke paint scheme on an Emira for another £8,000, the Driving Academy (which already existed) and the possibility of some tailored Emira luggage at probably £500 an item. But get the basic customer buying and ownership experience right first.

TomE · Feb 9, 2022

DF_Toronto said:
I just created a poll here to try and use the community to get an answer that hasn't been given from Lotus. I don't see it in the main page so I'm not sure how to get it there. Here's the link.

POLL: Deposit day for those either offered a V6 FE or placed their V6 FE order

I can see it fine on the main page

Eagle7 · Feb 9, 2022

I know we'd all like to have the teething problems over, and a mature new Lotus to deal with, but we don't, and we're not there yet.

My take on it is after experiencing the panic of seeing the tsunami of interest the Emira rollout generated, and realizing they weren't at all ready for it, they don't want to be in that position again. The way to solve that is to not talk about what to do, just do it. They seem to be taking the tact of discretion is the better part of valor, and while we'd all like more communication, there's always an aura of liability that goes along with that. We're now living in a world where you can be attacked and canceled just for saying something 10 years ago that somebody today doesn't like. You can't be sued for something you said if you haven't said anything.

Though I haven't met any of them, I don't get the impression that any of the top people at Lotus are narcissists who want to be in front of the camera all the time like an Elon Musk, or others. However their top execs DID go to the U.S. and go around on the tour with the gray car, to talk to people and get their feedback, so that doesn't give me the impression of hubris or that they don't care.

After experiencing showing and talking at Goodwood but not having anything to back it up yet, they seem to now want to do the opposite. Look at the configurator. That took a lot of work and they'd been working on it for awhile, but nobody outside of the team working on it knew that. They didn't tell us how great it was going to be, and talk it up ahead of time.

They've gotten the feedback; they know about it. I simply don't believe they've decided to just ignore it. I expect they have and are discussing all of it, and making decisions of what to do about it. They're not going to talk about it until it's ready to be talked about; they've learned from Goodwood. If what they've decided to do is as nice as the new configurator, it should be pretty good.

VL3X · Feb 9, 2022

I think we all need to step away from the forums and social media for a bit and just focus on other hobbies.. We're all a little stir crazy still from covid and itching for a new toy and excited for the future, but arguing points here isn't going to get us cars any faster.

Let's just keep the peace and stay positive... Hope the Emira is reviewed well and production speeds up and the final cars are fantastic. Within a month or two, we'll be watching Emira review videos. Within 3 a lot of us will have officially placed an order and within 6 months to a year, most of us will have our dream car! Everything is gonna be OK guys.

DF_Toronto · Feb 9, 2022

Eagle7 said:
I know we'd all like to have the teething problems over, and a mature new Lotus to deal with, but we don't, and we're not there yet.

My take on it is after experiencing the panic of seeing the tsunami of interest the Emira rollout generated, and realizing they weren't at all ready for it, they don't want to be in that position again. The way to solve that is to not talk about what to do, just do it. They seem to be taking the tact of discretion is the better part of valor, and while we'd all like more communication, there's always an aura of liability that goes along with that. We're now living in a world where you can be attacked and canceled just for saying something 10 years ago that somebody today doesn't like. You can't be sued for something you said if you haven't said anything.

Though I haven't met any of them, I don't get the impression that any of the top people at Lotus are narcissists who want to be in front of the camera all the time like an Elon Musk, or others. However their top execs DID go to the U.S. and go around on the tour with the gray car, to talk to people and get their feedback, so that doesn't give me the impression of hubris or that they don't care.

After experiencing showing and talking at Goodwood but not having anything to back it up yet, they seem to now want to do the opposite. Look at the configurator. That took a lot of work and they'd been working on it for awhile, but nobody outside of the team working on it knew that. They didn't tell us how great it was going to be, and talk it up ahead of time.

They've gotten the feedback; they know about it. I simply don't believe they've decided to just ignore it. I expect they have and are discussing all of it, and making decisions of what to do about it. They're not going to talk about it until it's ready to be talked about; they've learned from Goodwood. If what they've decided to do is as nice as the new configurator, it should be pretty good.

I for one am all for delays if needed for Q control and to get the car right. I’m really not too sure what liability they would be concerned about, that customers don’t get their car by an expected date? There needs to be some transparency and assurance that customers who’ve put their deposit down 7 months ago will eventually get what they put their deposit down for at some point in time as long as it’s within Lotus’ control. Ie. supply chain to get chips for ADAS not being there for cars shipped initially is understandable. Somebody just wrote that according to their dealer in the US 2 of the FE colours will be axed beyond the first 700 cars shipped to NA with I think 5000 deposits placed if I’m correct?

So 33% of 86% of depositors put money down and tied it up to 7+ months to buy something that will no longer be made available. And, Lotus decided to make this decision without telling anyone all this time that they could have gotten on a wait list for another car they want instead that’s another 12 month wait in the current supply chain world? Pardon my French but what in the world are they smoking? If the majority of North American depositors have been mislead about something well within their control (also about unlimited FE spec) then it’s somebody’s head on the chopping block!

Eagle7 · Feb 9, 2022

DF_Toronto said:
I for one am all for delays if needed for Q control and to get the car right. I’m really not too sure what liability they would be concerned about, that customers don’t get their car by an expected date? There needs to be some transparency and assurance that customers who’ve put their deposit down 7 months ago will eventually get what they put their deposit down for at some point in time as long as it’s within Lotus’ control. Ie. supply chain to get chips for ADAS not being there for cars shipped initially is understandable. Somebody just wrote that according to their dealer in the US 2 of the FE colours will be axed beyond the first 700 cars shipped to NA with I think 5000 deposits placed if I’m correct?

So 33% of 86% of depositors put money down and tied it up to 7+ months to buy something that will no longer be made available. And, Lotus decided to make this decision without telling anyone all this time that they could have gotten on a wait list for another car they want instead that’s another 12 month wait in the current supply chain world? Pardon my French but what in the world are they smoking? If the majority of North American depositors have been mislead about something well within their control (also about unlimited FE spec) then it’s somebody’s head on the chopping block!

I've addressed the concerns and sent them to Matt, along with a proposal for what could be done about it. I'll just have to wait now and see if he responds.

Where did you see someone saying 2 of the FE colors will be axed?

DF_Toronto · Feb 9, 2022

Great!

Here it is:

Post in thread 'U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date'
https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/u-s-update-allocation-order-date.712/post-15300

Making the FE in limited numbers or making certain colours “limited edition” is a great idea. But you need to advertise or disclose that from the start. Whoever is making or approving these decisions (if they are in fact true) is frankly unfit to make those decisions and clearly doesn’t understand “cost benefit” analysis when you’ve communicated otherwise to people who’ve made an outstanding commitment 7+ months ago. The car looks phenomenal and I have no doubt they’re doing an incredible job in most aspects. But they are likely wearing too many hats for something of this scale and need to get some folks on the team delegated or hired towards a few things they may be unable to do themselves. For example they should have an official account to post information when they have it on the forums or to dispel any misinformation.

If I heard correct that there are 5000 NA orders that’s over 1/4 of depositors who won’t get the COLOUR they are expecting. There is no mention anywhere in any fine print or indication that the 6 colours are limited, and I was specifically told by Lotus USA they they won’t be back in the summer since I want 1 specific colour and wasn’t sure if it might be limited edition for 1st allocations. I was told that no colours are LE.

The 5000 sounds right though based on my dealer having 100 deposits and apparently 10-15 initial allocation from someone who posted after speaking to them. I’m around 30 having put my deposit in the week after Goodwood (They told me they had about 25 that came in on the 6th)! So half the customers who paid a deposit on announcement day won’t have a choice of 1/3 the advertised colours after being told otherwise for over 7 months. Just mind boggling and concerning what other bad decisions they might be making!

Eagle7 said:
I've addressed the concerns and sent them to Matt, along with a proposal for what could be done about it. I'll just have to wait now and see if he responds.

Where did you see someone saying 2 of the FE colors will be axed?

andrew6382 · Feb 10, 2022

TomE said:
This is a pointless debate. You started this tangent saying Lotus weren't giving finance options, only illustrations, and there were better options on finance deals elsewhere. Most people looking at finance know this.

Then you said Lotus needed to be more flexible and other manufacturers were offering better deals. I've looked at headline rates and they appear the same.

You say if you speak to Porsche dealers you can get a better deal - great but not published by them. You've found a manufacturer who will include a dealer contribution (so basically a discount off the list price) - great - but you've said their residuals are worse. Both companies have published headline finance rates that are identical to the Lotus one. You say a BMW dealer can offer other lenders - great but Lotus and many others don't.

There is a whole thread about alternative UK finance options, which you started, where this discussion would be better suited: https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/olternative-finance-options.778/

Can we get back to the original topic of this thread - the announcement about the new Advanced Performance Division

My points
I. Is it right that lotus force you to bundle zero value items in the finance

2 We don’t know what the rates are going to be its not an example it’s an illustration, and from what I have seen the residuals are not that good. Do they have the T&C of the finance deal to check?

3 The base rate of a finance deal is not always what makes it go or bad. If you look back, you will see I brought this point up

Yes, they are being indexable, your own comment supports that “whilst they acknowledged they could have done things differently, they were not going to change the approach “

I said my point and view, and you countered…. Am I not entitled to reply?

eclat2emira · Feb 10, 2022

andrew6382 said:
My points
I. Is it right that lotus force you to bundle zero value items in the finance

2 We don’t know what the rates are going to be its not an example it’s an illustration, and from what I have seen the residuals are not that good. Do they have the T&C of the finance deal to check?

3 The base rate of a finance deal is not always what makes it go or bad. If you look back, you will see I brought this point up

Yes, they are being indexable, your own comment supports that “whilst they acknowledged they could have done things differently, they were not going to change the approach “

I said my point and view, and you countered…. Am I not entitled to reply?

None of this is going to change anything, so I don't see the point in taking up Tom's time in a debate over the semantics of finance when Lotus frankly do not need to offer bargain basement rates or lots of options.

Tom has so much useful insight to offer elsewhere and has already been so generous with his time that I strongly recommend we do not take up any more of his time on the topic of finance.

andrew6382 · Feb 10, 2022

eclat2emira said:
None of this is going to change anything, so I don't see the point in taking up Tom's time in a debate over the semantics of finance when Lotus frankly do not need to offer bargain basement rates or lots of options.

Tom has so much useful insight to offer elsewhere and has already been so generous with his time that I strongly recommend we do not take up any more of his time on the topic of finance.

True..... but it dont change that I think they Lotus, should do better.... I expressed my view. Tom countered it, should i just shut up and not reply

Is any of what I have said un-true, and the original point was, the Jan update was.... well not so much an update, more a plication.... Tom has himself said it was not all they said it would be

If being part of the Lotus family, means I should tow the line, shut up when I am told. Then clearly I am in the wrong place.

"None of this is going to change anything, so I don't see the point in taking up Tom's time in a debate over the semantics of finance when Lotus frankly do not need to offer bargain basement rates or lots of options."

when did i mention bargin basement rates... I did not say the should offer options.... but that they will only invoice you, and not your finance company.... less than helpful, not a big issue.... but something others do

So you happy adding 3K to your finace for zero value items

Lots_Of_Trouble · Feb 10, 2022

When I first saw this post I was looking forward to seeing discussions on interior personalisation etc,now I'm lost in finance package talks

What happened there??

Back on track,I presume we won't be seeing any option to personalise interior options (unique colour coding etc like on previous exiges etc) on those Emiras scheduled for June?

Shame if so,was quite looking forward to that,but understand it would be a far fetch to get this modification in after "lock-in"

DF_Toronto · Feb 10, 2022

Lots_Of_Trouble said:
When I first saw this post I was looking forward to seeing discussions on interior personalisation etc,now I'm lost in finance package talks

What happened there??

Back on track,I presume we won't be seeing any option to personalise interior options (unique colour coding etc like on previous exiges etc) on those Emiras scheduled for June?

Shame if so,was quite looking forward to that,but understand it would be a far fetch to get this modification in after "lock-in"

About a week ago someone posted that they were farther down the allocation list and the dealer offered a cancellation that already had a locked FE build in their exact desired spec apart from wheels. I wonder if we start to see lots of this if these options get advertised before some get their ”locked in” FE deliveries (or shortly after).

Tonyshepp · Feb 10, 2022

DF_Toronto said:
About a week ago someone posted that they were farther down the allocation list and the dealer offered a cancellation that already had a locked FE build in their exact desired spec apart from wheels. I wonder if we start to see lots of this if these options get advertised before some get their ”locked in” FE deliveries (or shortly after).

Most definitely. It will let us find out "how good value" the FE is - or how much to save by going base + options. Also be interesting to identify the price for optioning out as well, i.e. some aren't having privacy pack or sports suspension.
And the I4 pricing - not long to wait now...

Lots_Of_Trouble · Feb 10, 2022

Tonyshepp said:
Most definitely. It will let us find out "how good value" the FE is - or how much to save by going base + options. Also be interesting to identify the price for optioning out as well, i.e. some aren't having privacy pack or sports suspension.
And the I4 pricing - not long to wait now...

Do we know when these additional selections will be available on the configurator,yet?

Lotus Advanced Performance - new division announced focusing on bespoke vehicles and customer experiences

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