Matt Windle interview with Car and Driver

Not a review - but very good read.

Matt Windle Is Bullish about Lotus's Future Prospects

The specialty carmaker has a new lease on life, and its managing director goes into detail with us about the present and near future.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[CDM1855]

My info came from a credible source.

What do they have to say about V6 Auto’s ?. It’s possible there is still no type approval in the UK

 

[Dommo]

What do they have to say about V6 Auto’s ?. It’s possible there is still no type approval in the UK

It was mentioned to me a few weeks back but I think the cooling issue was specific to the I4 but couldn't say for definite

 

[Grumpy]

Sadly I think they are in La La Land. They are already making very basic production errors and if they ramp it up to 7k pa that production line just won't cope unless it is run in a very un Lotus way - there is just too much manual work and therein lies the problem.

Looks aside It's a good car but not an amazing car. Looks will sell cars, but the shambolic scheduling and communications added to a dealer network that are at best left out in the cold and its not a recipe for smooth customer relations. The car is good but apart from the looks it isn't a wow. Lotuses have never ceased to impress me after driving and owning them but I didn't I step out of the Emira wowed by it, very sadly the opposite. The Emira has more grip, but the Evora was a much more engaging and special feeling car.

 

[dgrace]

I really dislike Windle’s casual misuse of deposit numbers to refer to “sold cars”. It makes me wonder what other liberties he takes when making promises about the company.

 

[SPoivre]

Agree on conflating “sold” with “ deposits”. I wouldn’t be surprised if 25% of those deposits vaporize when the rubber meets the road, delays, interest rates, weak economy, reviews…

My local dealer, where I am waiting patiently for my FE car, sent me an email a week ago saying something like . “ good news! we still have 4 allocations for the base. V6 for next year”, by which I think 2023 deliveries/MY24. My guy is a very small dealer. If he has 4 cars, I would think the bigger guys have many more. From everything I’ve seen and heard so far, my gut tells me going to a second shift would be complete folly. Better to maintain limited supply and let the ICE engine be a specialty car for a company going all electric soon ( or maybe I should say “ soon”, LOL). We’ll see…

 

[Nova]

Agree on conflating “sold” with “ deposits”. I wouldn’t be surprised if 25% of those deposits vaporize when the rubber meets the road, delays, interest rates, weak economy, reviews…

My local dealer, where I am waiting patiently for my FE car, sent me an email a week ago saying something like . “ good news! we still have 4 allocations for the base. V6 for next year”, by which I think 2023 deliveries/MY24. My guy is a very small dealer. If he has 4 cars, I would think the bigger guys have many more. From everything I’ve seen and heard so far, my gut tells me going to a second shift would be complete folly. Better to maintain limited supply and let the ICE engine be a specialty car for a company going all electric soon ( or maybe I should say “ sono”, LOl). We’ll see…

I don't believe the base allocation has been released for the US market yet. Any dealer promising base allocation is doing so on their own guesstimate.

By my gut feeling, about half of the original US deposits in 2021 have been or will be cancelled.

 

[Captain.Kirk]

Yep 3k cars in 2023 at best, that's 7k Emira customers without car in 2023 , so that's a good 2 years to clear the backlog and new deposits that will be placed in 2023. Don't be surprised to see the I4 and V6 auto pushed right back to end of 2023/early 2024

Hang on ain't we already been waiting 18 months.

Sadly, it’s almost too long to wait for my first Lotus. Maybe it’s just not meant to be? I’ve got the “I’m Out...” thread on speed dial as well as my dealer. I hope things improve overall and look positive by the end of 1st Q/2023.

 

[Ryder]

Dommo, your info maybe spot on but I doubt it. Do you think the Emira I 4 is similiar to the Tucker automobile ? In the software space, small companies promise the world in tech advances to sell you a product. What they show you still has components in development and may not yet be attainable. You buy into the product and the software company continues their R & D in the hope of one day soon having that complete package.. I believe the term is " Vaporware". So, I find it hard to believe Lotus would be playing this game.

 

[Dommo]

Dommo, your info maybe spot on but I doubt it. Do you think the Emira I 4 is similiar to the Tucker automobile ? In the software space, small companies promise the world in tech advances to sell you a product. What they show you still has components in development and may not yet be attainable. You buy into the product and the software company continues their R & D in the hope of one day soon having that complete package.. I believe the term is " Vaporware". So, I find it hard to believe Lotus would be playing this game.

I can't really comment specifically as I'm certainly not a Lotus 'insider'. I just know what I get told and who is reliable with their information. I don't have any reason to believe the I4 won't come to fruition but there are clearly some issue getting Type approval (amongst other things), otherwise we'd have seen the I4 by now....

 

[DJS]

Sadly, it’s almost too long to wait for my my first Lotus. Maybe it’s just not meant to be? I’ve got the “I’m Out...” thread on speed dial as well as my dealer. I hope things improve overall and look positive by the end of 1st Q/2023.

We can only keep our fingers crossed and hope all the secondhand information we are getting is inaccurate and Lotus are ready for 2023. I myself would already be out of the Emira if I had found a suitable replacement. I’m still car shopping but refuse to pay the inflated prices that are still out there in the used car market. Towards the end of 2023 I will be in a position to take another car as have other deposits down elsewhere. I really do fear further delays and I’m not hopeful of my current May delivery, it will probably get to the point where I will have no choice but to pull out, let’s just hope that Lotus can pull it out of the bag.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Another issue that keeps popping up in my mind...

1. Lotus Hethel is limited to 7K annual production currently approx.
2. They have yet to introduce the i4 into production or even have it reviewed/marketed properly
3. 10K current deposit back log to work through; I assume 3/4 of this is V6. Which lets assume the i4 gets rave reviews and a better price point will only increase the number of orders
4. 2025 to introduce an all electric sports car to be built alongside the; Base V6 - Final Edition/GT/CUP V6 - Base i4 DCT - New electric sports car.
5. Opening more dealerships worldwide in 2023 will open Lotus to new people in those markets that never considered a Lotus before due to lack of a local dealer; this in itself will increase demand and deposits
6. Nothing stated in the article points to being able to increase capacity. Which means they expect demand to increase and capacity to stay the same and in fact decrease capacity for certain ICE models come 2025.

This looks like a very ambitious plan. The numbers just don't seem to add up to me. I am starting to think that they are trying to create a Porsche "GT" problem @ Hethel. Where the Emira/Type 135 will never actually catch up to demand. Drive people into the dealerships and sell them the lifestyle products to get them into the "proper" Lotus products. This may not work in the UK as much due to saturation, but everywhere else, there is no way they catch up to the demand in the US by 2024. In all honesty Lotus is still very much unknown in many parts of the world. I am starting to see this from a marketing perspective and not a business case at Hethel. In the interview they pretty much stated this with the Evija. They don't care if it makes any money. I think Geely is OK with using Lotus UK operating in the red, if it means huge sales for the lifestyle side of things coming out of china. Lotus Sports Cars will be a marketing write off for them in the end.

 

[Eagle7]

Matt said in a previous interview somewhere, that the current bottleneck is the chassis building facility. They've already recognized it needs its production capacity expanded, and they're working on that. That's the reason for the limit of 7k cars in a year. You can be sure Geely knows about that too now, so as soon as they get that increased, I can see Lotus reaching the 10k production numbers for the Emira, presuming they're able to get enough parts to build that many in a year.

 

[VL3X]

Finally kudos to C&D to ask some tougher questions, it wasn't a puff piece and hopefully Lotus start fixing some of their issues.

100% this! I was really impressed by the questions and how blunt they were. MW's answers appeared honest and positive. I especially liked hearing about their focus on the US dealer network and overall image as well as focus on quality and how the new automated systems are seeing ~97% accuracy compared to the 80-85% they saw previously (something like that). Good stuff!

 

[simonb]

Another issue that keeps popping up in my mind...

1. Lotus Hethel is limited to 7K annual production currently approx.
2. They have yet to introduce the i4 into production or even have it reviewed/marketed properly
3. 10K current deposit back log to work through; I assume 3/4 of this is V6. Which lets assume the i4 gets rave reviews and a better price point will only increase the number of orders
4. 2025 to introduce an all electric sports car to be built alongside the; Base V6 - Final Edition/GT/CUP V6 - Base i4 DCT - New electric sports car.
5. Opening more dealerships worldwide in 2023 will open Lotus to new people in those markets that never considered a Lotus before due to lack of a local dealer; this in itself will increase demand and deposits
6. Nothing stated in the article points to being able to increase capacity. Which means they expect demand to increase and capacity to stay the same and in fact decrease capacity for certain ICE models come 2025.

This looks like a very ambitious plan. The numbers just don't seem to add up to me. I am starting to think that they are trying to create a Porsche "GT" problem @ Hethel. Where the Emira/Type 133 will never actually catch up to demand. Drive people into the dealerships and sell them the lifestyle products to get them into the "proper" Lotus products. This may not work in the UK as much due to saturation, but everywhere else, there is no way they catch up to the demand in the US by 2024. In all honesty Lotus is still very much unknown in many parts of the world. I am starting to see this from a marketing perspective and not a business case at Hethel. In the interview they pretty much stated this with the Evija. They don't care if it makes any money. I think Geely is OK with using Lotus UK operating in the red, if it means huge sales for the lifestyle side of things coming out of china. Lotus Sports Cars will be a marketing write off for them in the end.

you are assuming that the electric sportscar (renault collaboration?) will be all hethel, rather than finished at hethel
Alpine demand seems to have flattened, and it could be in a couple of years that electric sportscars are THE thing, which kind of makes sense are there are masses of low mileage weekend toys, where small batteries and big motors would work

 

[First Lotus]

I really can't see the second shift thing actually happening. Maybe a kind of second shift on PDI and QC. But not full rpoduction. I just don't think that will allow them enough breathing space to solve any issues. And I can't see their type of production line (too much manual input) ever getting to a stage that works so smoothly and efficiently that they can hit the 7k a year.

 

[Lotustoronto]

you are assuming that the electric sportscar (renault collaboration?) will be all hethel, rather than finished at hethel
Alpine demand seems to have flattened, and it could be in a couple of years that electric sportscars are THE thing, which kind of makes sense are there are masses of low mileage weekend toys, where small batteries and big motors would work

I am not assuming anything.... Matt Windle stated that they will build the electric sport car at Hethel.

I am not disputing if going electric sports car is a good business case, I am sure it is. I just don't think they currently have the capacity or workforce to achieve these goals by 2025, or even possibly clear up the Emira order list by 2025.

 

[RevMonkey]

Lotus had honest intentions for their build programme but they have certainly been knocked back and strong, impactful business decision may have already been taken.

Whilst the Geely influence and most focus being on EV, we cannot say that Lotus is not trying everything to make the Emira/Eviya a success with the resources that they have.
It does look they will have to concede in some areas, and planned capacity and use of resources might well be one. Already, not their fault, but they must be 6 months to a year behind where they wanted to be so that has to have an impact.

It is a business and it has to put the business, and the loyal employees, first and we might not like what this means.

What would I do...?

Probably put an end to V6 production quicker than expected and move people to the i4 and perhaps look to run that shorter than they originally intended to and concentrate on the EV.

 

[Shahaf2911]

you are assuming that the electric sportscar (renault collaboration?) will be all hethel, rather than finished at hethel
Alpine demand seems to have flattened, and it could be in a couple of years that electric sportscars are THE thing, which kind of makes sense are there are masses of low mileage weekend toys, where small batteries and big motors would work

IMO small batteries are a big problem for sports cars (apart from weight), people take their weekend toys for long trips, track days, spirited driving and so on which they highly impacts the battery usage, it’s gonna be a nightmare the charging speed and infrastructures aren’t there yet, just imagine Harry’s video with a small battery or a full track day, he/you would have to recharge it so many times and waste a few hours in total, electric works quite well for big cars where weight isn’t such an issue.

 

[CDM1855]

Lotus had honest intentions for their build programme but they have certainly been knocked back and strong, impactful business decision may have already been taken.

Whilst the Geely influence and most focus being on EV, we cannot say that Lotus is not trying everything to make the Emira/Eviya a success with the resources that they have.
It does look they will have to concede in some areas, and planned capacity and use of resources might well be one. Already, not their fault, but they must be 6 months to a year behind where they wanted to be so that has to have an impact.

It is a business and it has to put the business, and the loyal employees, first and we might not like what this means.

What would I do...?

Probably put an end to V6 production quicker than expected and move people to the i4 and perhaps look to run that shorter than they originally intended to and concentrate on the EV.

I’m surprised that they’re still taking deposits on the V6. I don’t know how they can produce all of these ICE cars as well as a new line of electric sports cars. It wouldn’t surprise me if the electric sports car doesn’t look exactly the same as the Emira. Given that it wasn’t too complicated to convert the Elise into a Tesla roadster, they may have developed the chassis so that it can be converted to electric quite easily.

 

[Cachaco131]

Lotus had honest intentions for their build programme but they have certainly been knocked back and strong, impactful business decision may have already been taken.

Whilst the Geely influence and most focus being on EV, we cannot say that Lotus is not trying everything to make the Emira/Eviya a success with the resources that they have.
It does look they will have to concede in some areas, and planned capacity and use of resources might well be one. Already, not their fault, but they must be 6 months to a year behind where they wanted to be so that has to have an impact.

It is a business and it has to put the business, and the loyal employees, first and we might not like what this means.

What would I do...?

Probably put an end to V6 production quicker than expected and move people to the i4 and perhaps look to run that shorter than they originally intended to and concentrate on the EV.

But the I4 is nowhere to be seen? Much less certain.