Now that reviews are out is anyone having 2nd thoughts about Emira ?

[Evotion]

As soon as I see Evora mentioned on this forum I switch off.
Some people will never be convinced it not an Evora with a new body.

 

[CoryC]

If I want to buy the obvious choice I'd buy a porsche, which is the de facto benchmark of this segment. On same principle my neighbor bought one and my city is absolutly flooded with porsches. It's just like Rolexs, I know they are great watches and precise and holds their value very well etc, yet I wear an speedmaster.

We all need some courage to not want the obvious choice and be the same as everyone else, or the world would become a super boring place.

This is exactly how I feel... and also wore a Planet Ocean for a bit, then switched to Ball; All for the same reasons!!! I can't wait for this car. It's the last analog sports car with this layout, that looks amazing and has three pedals. It will no doubt be amazing, incredibly fun to drive as ALL the reviewers have mentioned, and be a practical every day car... a first for Lotus and rare in this segment. I'm all in!! LFG!!! USA rollout can't come fast enough.

 

[petermal57]

Ich vermute mal. Ich habe bereits einen Evora.

i also

 

[LotusB]

Do average people buy 10k watches? ;-) I don't but do love the Grand Seiko's.

Aside from that it comes down to your reason to purchase anything. Do you want the thing for what it is or what you can get back out of it. I buy very few cars and hang on to them for 7/8 years typically so I don't really care too much about retaining value - I mean I do a bit but accept depreciation as part of the cost. I have friends who are serial car flippers, buy the latest toy, drive for 6 months and use the proceeds to buy the next toy and sometimes make money as well, they are super focussed on the value retention and only pick top brands or cars that seem likely to have huge waiting lists.

Actually, value retention/flipping is exactly the reason "average people buy 10k watches." In the past buying a Rolex or buying a 911 was considered a luxury for the few that could afford it. Now? When buying a new watch or car at MSRP means you can instantly flip it for 50% more on the open market, all the sudden average people are very interested in both. If you look at both markets, they're now considered a store of value.... so you get your cake and eat it too. You get to show off/own a luxury good and it costs less than owning a Civic (or Seiko) - with opportunity for upside.

Don't get me wrong, I think eventually both markets will return back to earth with a loud thud... but who knows? And in that context, buying an Emira carries great financial risk for many "average people" you wouldn't otherwise have thought are interested in this car. Because what they want is the investment grade bond of Porsche with the exclusivity and looks of... well... not Porsche

Even for the not-so-average, who can afford the depreciation... who wants to lose money?

And therein lies the rub, in my opinion. I think it ultimately all boils down to dollars and cents. If the Emira isn't a press darling like Porsche (especially with Lotus saying they'll pump out as many cars as they can), then there's a serious threat that what happened with Evora will happen with Emira. The secondary market will now compete with the dealers for the same buyers and the prices will inevitably slide.

It may not seem fair, but that's how consumers work.... as soon as someone raises the bar, our expectations change. Before Amazon, how often did you expect shipping of something to your house to happen overnight or within 2-days?

Porsche took out of the Ferrari playbook and it's paying huge dividends. According to https://blog.cheapism.com/cars-that-hold-their-value/#slide=8

Average 5-year depreciation: 12.8%
This flashy, pricey Porsche — the 2022 model starts at $101,000 — keeps its value precisely because the automaker keeps production numbers low, Brauer says. “Along with the 911’s timeless design and reputation for reliability, Porsche sells few 911s relative to market demand, so there aren’t many 911s in the used-car marketplace.”

So that's what Lotus has to compete with and unfortunately they aren't helping with their communication on the supply side... so consumers are hoping the demand side can stay much higher. This may be hard to accomplish with less-than-stellar reviews.

Wow, sorry that's a very long-winded way of explaining why 'average people' buy $10k watches... and... care about reviews so much

 

[BeHappy]

Matt Watson’s 5.3 second 0-60 is very concerning. I know everyone will find a reason to say it isn’t real or it doesn’t matter but… 4.3 was already slow, 5.3 in a car that looks like that is downright embarassing. I sure hope more data on this will be forthcoming and improved

Please tell me this is NOT true it can’t be surely a Nisan Micra would achieve that lol I tried to time it and looked over the 4.3 I just assumed I’d mis timed the actual Go point

 

[Eagle7]

There's a big difference between owning/buying a watch and a car. A watch is a luxury now, while a car still isn't, although that can change in the future.

We have these new generations that don't even own a watch; they use their phone for telling time. They buy an Apple Watch as the closest thing to a traditional watch. I find it fascinating how they decide value too. They'll drop hundreds of dollars every 2-3 years for a new Apple Watch, but balk at the perceived value of even a $300 actual watch which could last a lifetime. They do the same thing with headphones. You talk about a decent pair of headphones at $500 and they look at you like you're crazy, yet they won't hesitate to spend $250 every 2-3 years for Airpod Pros, and think that's a good value and they're getting high quality sound.

They don't value cars or the driving experience the way we do. This is the Uber generation, the meet-my-need-for-the-moment generation. Honestly, I think a lot of them would be perfectly fine with having an auto-driving vehicle pull up at their location, they get in, tell it where they want to go, and then sit there staring at their phone the whole time while being taken there. They don't want to own a car, wash a car, wax a car, just sit and stare and admire a car. They don't really care about that the way we do. They want to continuously stare at TikTok, Snapchat, etc. To me it's very much like an addiction, and not a healthy one at that.

I believe the Emira is going to hold it's value in the long run, simply because of what it is and what it will represent. It will strongly tap into the desire for nostalgia that's going to happen in the future older generations, that will look back upon these times as their 'good old days'. They'll associate ICE cars with their parents, grand-parents who will be gone by then. In the meantime, we get to enjoy a good, all-round sports car with the sweet song of a supercharged ICE V6. Sometimes value isn't always measured in dollars and cents.

 

[CoryC]

Please tell me this is NOT true it can’t be surely a Nisan Micra would achieve that lol I tried to time it and looked over the 4.3 I just assumed I’d mis timed the actual Go point

Evora GT with same engine, trans and gear ratios had sub 4 second reviewed, documented 0-60 times. This car is heavier, yes... but beyond that, it's actual BEST capabilities assuming all things optimal, is just math. This is a manual transmission car; Proper launch, shift points and traction have a huge influence on these numbers. A driver, even a skilled one, within the first few moments of driving a manual transmission vehicle foreign to one they have prior experience with would not be able to lay down a competitive time. Such cars take a little getting used to in order to maximize their performance... that's why I believe so many people WANT them! Over time, you develop a proper relationship with the car and it's characteristics, that are unique to that machine... I feel that is lost a bit on the automatic, electric and even the ultra high tech DCT vehicles. Are they faster? Yes. But, do they give me the same driving experience and rely as heavily on what I as a driver bring to the table in meshing with the car (good AND bad) ...not by a long shot.

 

[kitkat]

Second thoughts are normal, the Emira could be better, but it still meets all my desires for the money.

Watching the CAR Magazine video intro to the Emira and the sounds put a smile on my face, it'll be a fun car.

 

[Krisjc21]

I think curious if they will put out an update to up the HP of the car when it's time to refresh it? since alot of people are wanting more power

 

[kitkat]

I think curious if they will put out an update to up the HP of the car when it's time to refresh it? since alot of people are wanting more power

Absolutely, we already know they can and they have in the past. All of this is a balance of extending sales throughout the lifetime of the car, emissions, product segmentation, and product markets.

There will absolutely forthcoming editions with carbon bits etc, and markets like China are getting the 400hp AMG M139 since they can't get the V6 variant there.

 

[Leonard]

Absolutely, we already know they can and they have in the past. All of this is a balance of extending sales throughout the lifetime of the car, emissions, product segmentation, and product markets.

There will absolutely forthcoming editions with carbon bits etc, and markets like China are getting the 400hp AMG M139 since they can't get the V6 variant there.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the Emira FE was specced to have 416 bhp and 7000rpm and it has purposely been dumbed down to allow and justify a more expensive 'upgraded' version very shortly to recoup some cash. Or maybe we will get told that we can unlock the extra horse for an additional sum of money... Great way to deal with inflation without upsetting too many people

 

[JKP]

According to this mornings news, its now 395hp. Reference: https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/2023-lotus-emira-review-lotus-grows-up-and-just-in-time

 

[Cutting42]

Actually, value retention/flipping is exactly the reason "average people buy 10k watches." In the past buying a Rolex or buying a 911 was considered a luxury for the few that could afford it. Now? When buying a new watch or car at MSRP means you can instantly flip it for 50% more on the open market, all the sudden average people are very interested in both. If you look at both markets, they're now considered a store of value.... so you get your cake and eat it too. You get to show off/own a luxury good and it costs less than owning a Civic (or Seiko) - with opportunity for upside.

Don't get me wrong, I think eventually both markets will return back to earth with a loud thud... but who knows? And in that context, buying an Emira carries great financial risk for many "average people" you wouldn't otherwise have thought are interested in this car. Because what they want is the investment grade bond of Porsche with the exclusivity and looks of... well... not Porsche

Even for the not-so-average, who can afford the depreciation... who wants to lose money?

And therein lies the rub, in my opinion. I think it ultimately all boils down to dollars and cents. If the Emira isn't a press darling like Porsche (especially with Lotus saying they'll pump out as many cars as they can), then there's a serious threat that what happened with Evora will happen with Emira. The secondary market will now compete with the dealers for the same buyers and the prices will inevitably slide.

It may not seem fair, but that's how consumers work.... as soon as someone raises the bar, our expectations change. Before Amazon, how often did you expect shipping of something to your house to happen overnight or within 2-days?

Porsche took out of the Ferrari playbook and it's paying huge dividends. According to https://blog.cheapism.com/cars-that-hold-their-value/#slide=8



So that's what Lotus has to compete with and unfortunately they aren't helping with their communication on the supply side... so consumers are hoping the demand side can stay much higher. This may be hard to accomplish with less-than-stellar reviews.

Wow, sorry that's a very long-winded way of explaining why 'average people' buy $10k watches... and... care about reviews so much

I agree with most of your post but we are not talking average. Average income in the UK last year was £38.5k. I have some friends and acquaintances in that earning range and there is no way they could get £10k together for a luxury item even if it was going to potentially make money for them. Also have you tried buying a £10k MSRP Rolex, it is essentially impossible unless you have a long history of buying multiple Rolexes over several years and can get on the "special" list - a bit like buying a GT4 at MSRP as well in fact.

 

[LotusB]

I agree with most of your post but we are not talking average. Average income in the UK last year was £38.5k. I have some friends and acquaintances in that earning range and there is no way they could get £10k together for a luxury item even if it was going to potentially make money for them. Also have you tried buying a £10k MSRP Rolex, it is essentially impossible unless you have a long history of buying multiple Rolexes over several years and can get on the "special" list - a bit like buying a GT4 at MSRP as well in fact.

You're right, maybe not average average, but certainly closer to average than before. The point is that the margin has shifted due to the valuation formula. And that's important because the "competition" is no longer other $100-200k cars, but potentially a $40-50k car with a 5-year depreciation of 50%. Obviously this is much more nuanced (cost of insurance, taxes, maintenance, etc), we're simplifying here, but the point still stands. Yes, I've recently bought Rolex's at MSRP - without any history, but that's a separate thread.

Honestly, I'm just happy to read your intelligent response. Certain responses make me question whether people even understand basic economic theory or any part of what I'm writing. So thanks for that

 

[~el~jefe~]

This is what concerns me. I've followed these car journalists all of my life. They DO get excited. 'Today' they didn't and that is a worry.
Will await a test drive, but i do value the opinion of those doing the reviews

the reviewers clearly were stunned and found it difficult to contain their shock at how humdrum their experience was. I actually think that the interior was awesome (aside from digital only gauges).
I also noticed the with the black pack accents on the bottom of the car, the car looks 20 feet into the air and very 90's sort of thing going on. The Boxster T i have on order will look a lot more hunkered down and mean, which is sad to say for a Boxster T.

they look like they are floating in air with the black part on the bottom and the general design. Might be great for snow though, which is fun. or it is an illusion, still meh

 

[~el~jefe~]

No second thoughts here. The reviews struck me as what was expected, and oddly reminiscent of the original Evora vs Cayman reviews, IIRC. Takeaways were that the Lotus was well damped and had more steering feel, but was not as impressive as the Cayman everywhere else. My car is (supposedly) slated for an October delivery, and I am still very much looking forward to experiencing it. I currently own a heavily modified 718 Spyder and do not plan to sell that car ever, so perhaps this makes me a little less invested in how the Lotus turns out.

718 spyder is the most ultimate, beautiful sports car made in the past 20 years. Lol NEVER SELL THAT if you spec'd it properly and with much care. Gorgeous x3000 and oh so everything. Classy AF

 

[Evotion]

718 spyder is the most ultimate, beautiful sports car made in the past 20 years.

Ah, didn't realise men bought them. '
I need a hair cut.

ON a serious note, this in your opinion which is fair enough and really glad you experience the joy. Rather you didn't try and poke fun at our prospective joy though.

 

[Green]

718 spyder is the most ultimate, beautiful sports car made in the past 20 years. Lol NEVER SELL THAT if you spec'd it properly and with much care. Gorgeous x3000 and oh so everything. Classy AF

I'm pretty sure there are many Porsche people that would agree with you on another forum. Personally the 718 is very boring to look at. No tingle! Hard pass.

 

[Tonyshepp]

I'm pretty sure there are many Porsche people that would agree with you on another forum. Personally the 718 is very boring to look at. No tingle! Hard pass.

Apart from Spyder (for me anyway) the 718 coxster doesn't have that sense of occasion that when you park it in the car park you look back at it and think "I love that car". I had a 2016 LandRover Defender 90, pig to drive, leaked water - but god i loved that car and it looked so cool in the car park next to BMW x5's Audi Q7's etc....

Who doesn't love an underdog..

 

[Evotion]

On top of the Cayman, or whatever it is now called, being ugly IMHO, I can also not shake away that 'poor man's Porsche' thought in my head. I'd always desire a 911, any 911, well over ANY Cayman.
That's just me. I understand that the Cayman in some forms is considered a real weapon.