Race to the first i4

[PsymonR]

Just out of curiosity.

If you've been given a vin, does it have a car behind it? I really hope it's true, at least that means they're making something.

The other option is that they won't start until summer at the earliest, and that in lotus language is more delays.

It's impossible to say really, I contacted Lotus CC to see if they could give any information as to what (if anything) the VIN against my order means, but they weren't able to give any information. Thought it was worth an ask, but wasn't surprised that it didn't get me anywhere!

That said there is an in-between option. They have shown with the NA V6s that they're prepared to build the cars prior to type approval being finalised. So even if they've not started building the UK/EU I4s yet there's probably still time for them to do something similar within a "by summer" target.

Rose tinted glasses on, I'm taking the event they're going to be organising in the summer at Hethel as a positive with respect to their current confidence in timescales. They won't want to invite a load of people to Hethel who would then be asking en masse "Where the F*** is my car?"... but of course they can always cancel/postpone the event.

LOL - glad it's not just me. Every time I tell my wife about another delay, she asks me if I'm ready to cancel it now. It's almost like she doesn't want me to have an expensive, impractical, (potentially) unreliable, showy sports car

My wife's on board and looking forward to the Emira as much as I am, which helps me keep some patience with the delays... that alongside mentally reducing the magnitude of the delay by ignoring the fact that the car was brought forward to Oct 23 from the originally given Q1 24.

 

[Tokion]

My wife just looks at me and says "it's never going to happen"

Faith, friends it’s all about deep faith (that shouldn’t be confused with “deep fake” when talking about the 4-cylinder - i4. It MAY actually be real

(You all know that I am also in line waiting together with you; and I haven’t considered cancelling YET )

 

[khiro]

信仰、友人たち それはすべて深い信仰についてです (4 気筒 - i4 について話すときに「ディープフェイク」と混同しないでください。実際は本物かもしれません)

(皆さんご存知の通り、私も一緒に並んで待っています。キャンセルはまだ考えていません )

So do I. We have to wait patiently. Never give up! The goal is gattig closer...may be...

 

[Zayex]

It's impossible to say really, I contacted Lotus CC to see if they could give any information as to what (if anything) the VIN against my order means, but they weren't able to give any information. Thought it was worth an ask, but wasn't surprised that it didn't get me anywhere!

That said there is an in-between option. They have shown with the NA V6s that they're prepared to build the cars prior to type approval being finalised. So even if they've not started building the UK/EU I4s yet there's probably still time for them to do something similar within a "by summer" target.

Rose tinted glasses on, I'm taking the event they're going to be organising in the summer at Hethel as a positive with respect to their current confidence in timescales. They won't want to invite a load of people to Hethel who would then be asking en masse "Where the F*** is my car?"... but of course they can always cancel/postpone the event.


My wife's on board and looking forward to the Emira as much as I am, which helps me keep some patience with the delays... that alongside mentally reducing the magnitude of the delay by ignoring the fact that the car was brought forward to Oct 23 from the originally given Q1 24.

Well, if you tell me that the assignment of a vin is useless and they cannot give details about it... it seems that they have broken the manufacturing/assignment process they had and no longer comply with their processes.

My hope is that someone gets their i4, with that we'll know it's going slow, but we're going somewhere.

In the NA thread they talk that they are giving new allocations for V6 auto, so it's not a supply issue, unless it's with AMG.

 

[Medic518]

Well, if you tell me that the assignment of a vin is useless and they cannot give details about it... it seems that they have broken the manufacturing/assignment process they had and no longer comply with their processes.

My hope is that someone gets their i4, with that we'll know it's going slow, but we're going somewhere.

In the NA thread they talk that they are giving new allocations for V6 auto, so it's not a supply issue, unless it's with AMG.

That was my thought exactly - the only supply issue could be AMG with all the other delivery activity happening on the v6 platform. However, it still leaves a question on certification. It feels like the certification process (for the US) is a roadblock too. Seems it takes roughly 6mo based on new timelines from Lotus, and a job posting for Emissions Engineer at Hethel.

- Manuals going to dealers now, slated for Jan. '24 start for delivery to customers.
- v6 Auto slated for mid-year (6mo later)
- i4 slated for Jan. 2025 (6mo after v6 Auto)

So IF my inference is correct, the question is why aren't certification efforts being run concurrently, rather than consecutively? With all the negative sentiment surrounding the company on delivery seems at the very least they would try and speed up that process.

 

[Cutting42]

Well, if you tell me that the assignment of a vin is useless and they cannot give details about it... it seems that they have broken the manufacturing/assignment process they had and no longer comply with their processes.

My hope is that someone gets their i4, with that we'll know it's going slow, but we're going somewhere.

In the NA thread they talk that they are giving new allocations for V6 auto, so it's not a supply issue, unless it's with AMG.

It absolutely is about the AMG i4 engine. I suspect it is something to do with legal permissions similar to the US CARB situation. Maybe it failed an emissions test or fell short of a target. Nothing has been publically admitted by Lotus or to any of us who recieved (eventually) phone calls. Just generic supply chain and type approvals talk.

My suspicion is that they built the first tranche of cars (the ones with VIN) and they are sitting in a car park somewhere waiting for the paperwork trail to catch up.

 

[PsymonR]

Well, if you tell me that the assignment of a vin is useless and they cannot give details about it... it seems that they have broken the manufacturing/assignment process they had and no longer comply with their processes.

My hope is that someone gets their i4, with that we'll know it's going slow, but we're going somewhere.

In the NA thread they talk that they are giving new allocations for V6 auto, so it's not a supply issue, unless it's with AMG.

I wouldn't read that much into it from what customer care say about the VIN, there will for sure be people at Lotus who do know what the assignment means, but that doesn't mean that the customer care team have authority to say anything about it or even have been given the relevant information. I think they've basically been told to respond to I4 queries with no more information than has been provided already.

From what they've been saying I'm not expecting anyone in UK/EU to be getting their I4 anytime soon. They have been making and shipping cars out to China, so they're definitely getting engines from AMG, what will be interesting is how things play out for other markets such as those who are due to be getting the I4 in other markets in the mean time (eg. Tokion in Japan). If cars start getting delivered outside of UK/EU/China then it does add weight to the certification screwups extending to the I4 over here.

Besides the engine another difference between V6 and I4 is the ADAS pod, so conceivably there could be supply issues related to that. I'm not fully sure around what is legally required on new vehicles from the ADAS suite, though ISA (intelligent speed assist) is required to be on all new models currently and all cars sold from July 24.

And thinking about it further, I wonder if this is where the type approval has run into issues, perhaps Lotus had assumed that it wasn't required yet as the I4 is a new variant of an existing model, however if the type approval wasn't already in place it may well need to be treated as a new model for regulatory purposes.

 

[PsymonR]

It absolutely is about the AMG i4 engine. I suspect it is something to do with legal permissions similar to the US CARB situation. Maybe it failed an emissions test or fell short of a target. Nothing has been publically admitted by Lotus or to any of us who recieved (eventually) phone calls. Just generic supply chain and type approvals talk.

I would find it hard to believe that emissions were the issue here with respect to type approval, it is a Euro 6 engine, much better emissions figures than some other cars new to market (eg the Ferrari Purosangue with it's naturally aspirated V12). I think any approval delays have to be from something different, for example ADAS requirements as I speculated above. It could just be something simple as a paperwork screwup, though I couldn't see that taking 6 months+ to resolve.

 

[Cutting42]

I would find it hard to believe that emissions were the issue here with respect to type approval, it is a Euro 6 engine, much better emissions figures than some other cars new to market (eg the Ferrari Purosangue with it's naturally aspirated V12). I think any approval delays have to be from something different, for example ADAS requirements as I speculated above. It could just be something simple as a paperwork screwup, though I couldn't see that taking 6 months+ to resolve.

It is probably not just paperwork for such a delay. Likewise I don't think it is an emissions failure as such, more likely they submitted based on one set of numbers and it did not hit those numbers and they have top either resubmit or make a change to the car.

All spedculation on my behalf of course.

 

[Zayex]

No le daría mucha importancia a lo que dice el servicio de atención al cliente sobre el VIN, seguramente habrá gente en Lotus que sepa lo que significa la asignación, pero eso no significa que el equipo de atención al cliente tenga autoridad para decir algo. al respecto o incluso haber recibido la información pertinente. Creo que básicamente se les ha dicho que respondan a las consultas I4 sin más información de la que ya se les ha proporcionado.

Por lo que han estado diciendo, no espero que nadie en el Reino Unido o la UE obtenga su I4 en el corto plazo. Han estado fabricando y enviando automóviles a China, por lo que definitivamente obtendrán motores de AMG. Lo que será interesante es cómo se desarrollan las cosas en otros mercados, como aquellos que recibirán el I4 en otros mercados en el futuro. tiempo (por ejemplo, Tokion en Japón). Si los automóviles comienzan a entregarse fuera del Reino Unido, la UE y China, eso agregará peso a los errores de certificación que se extienden al I4 aquí.

Además del motor, otra diferencia entre el V6 y el I4 es el módulo ADAS, por lo que es posible que haya problemas de suministro relacionados con eso. No estoy completamente seguro de lo que se requiere legalmente en los vehículos nuevos de la suite ADAS, aunque se requiere ISA (asistencia de velocidad inteligente) en todos los modelos nuevos actualmente y en todos los autos vendidos a partir del 24 de julio.

Y pensándolo más a fondo, me pregunto si aquí es donde la aprobación de tipo tuvo problemas, tal vez Lotus había asumido que no era necesario todavía ya que el I4 es una nueva variante de un modelo existente, sin embargo, si la aprobación de tipo no lo era. Si ya está en vigor, es posible que sea necesario tratarlo como un nuevo modelo a efectos regulatorios.

It absolutely is about the AMG i4 engine. I suspect it is something to do with legal permissions similar to the US CARB situation. Maybe it failed an emissions test or fell short of a target. Nothing has been publically admitted by Lotus or to any of us who recieved (eventually) phone calls. Just generic supply chain and type approvals talk.

My suspicion is that they built the first tranche of cars (the ones with VIN) and they are sitting in a car park somewhere waiting for the paperwork trail to catch up.

It should be something with I4 Homologation, they are still sending I4 to China... but It is hard for me to beileve that the had less problems to homologate the V6 Auto and V6 Manual, than I4 Auto AMG. It has a consumption and emissions clearly lower, plus surely they could count on the help of colleagues from AMG (European company).

My bet is that it's going to happen to us like the NA colleagues, before June we will see a major delivery parade of I4 cars, before the ADAS system is mandatory. In the end I am sure that the system can not be worth less than a few thousand €, and is margin to lose from Lotus. I remain convinced that it can not be cheaper I4AMG+DTC tandem than the Toyota V6 + manual, even if only for R&D costs.

Also I do not want ADAS in my car, is like well... lets add an autopilot!!! If I had wanted ADAS I would have bought a SUV.

 

[PsymonR]

I was wondering what the timescale was for UK type approval and found the Vehicle Certification Agency GB Type Approval FAQs. In which it says the following:

• How long will it take to receive a type approval certificate following application for full GB type approval?
  • VCA currently work to a timeline of four weeks for technical checks, followed by two weeks for administrative processes for an approval to be issued. This timeline will remain for GB type approval, though may be shorter as a result of efficiency gains from new processing systems.

So, if things are running to plan that should be 6 weeks from application to approval, but even if you pessimistically (or should that be realistically...) double that to 12 weeks for potential bureaucratic delays there is still a lot of time for Lotus to fill before summer.

That would brings supply issues back in, which with the cars going to China doesn't seem to be from AMG's end unless it is related to some ongoing work on e.g.. the transmission timing (but then why would they still be shipping to China). Which takes me back to my ponderings on ADAS being a potential reason for the delay if regulations are necessitating it.

 

[underhill]

Well unfortunately i bailed on the i4 Emira after waiting almost 2 years. 2025 is just way too long of a wait for me. Taking possession of a 2021 GT4 instead

 

[Andy H]

6 weeks from application to approval

I had no idea it was that quick. I had assumed it would be a long and bureaucratic process. Agreed then - it doesn't really explain such a significant display unless it requires serious work to meet the requirements. I suppose they may also have finally adopted the policy of under-promise and over-deliver rather than the death by a thousand cuts experience we've had so far!

 

[boisecrawfords]

Following your post I also emailed Lotus CC yesterday and got a phone call this morning with the script. I took the opportunity to release my feelings on the matter of Lotus customer care and the whole sordid journey (politely of course) and feel a little better for that. CC did claim they had reorganised the cc process and team and things should improve (we might have heard this before) and we woudl get more info on the portal. He did mention the portal might not have the details depending on which link was used and there should be a pre Nov link.

I just logged in and I have a VIN number. Does that mean my car is built and in a carpark somewhere waiting for type approval or something?

Can you advise how you logged in? My dealer gave me an order number but I have no idea whether or not it was actually entered at Lotus.

 

[PsymonR]

Can you advise how you logged in? My dealer gave me an order number but I have no idea whether or not it was actually entered at Lotus.

As you're in the US you won't have access to your order details in My Lotus as your interface with Lotus is via the Lotus dealer.

Here in the UK orders are placed directly with Lotus with My Lotus being the online interface for that process.

 

[Medic518]

Which takes me back to my ponderings on ADAS being a potential reason for the delay if regulations are necessitating it.

Could it be that China is "ok" with including the ADAS hardware and delivering, with a promise of future features? Whereas, as stated previously, there is a hard requirements of certain ADAS features for vehicles delivered in the UK June '24?

 

[Wiz33]

I would find it hard to believe that emissions were the issue here with respect to type approval, it is a Euro 6 engine, much better emissions figures than some other cars new to market (eg the Ferrari Purosangue with it's naturally aspirated V12). I think any approval delays have to be from something different, for example ADAS requirements as I speculated above. It could just be something simple as a paperwork screwup, though I couldn't see that taking 6 months+ to resolve.

It's the stupid fact that CARB won't even start looking at the car until it gone through EPA approval and then it takes them month to get it approve afterward.

 

[PsymonR]

The guy who posted it is a journalist so it is a press car. And looking at the numberplate (from one of his other posts) it is actually the same car that was in the Harry's Garage video:
View attachment 33770
I guess one question is if Lotus have given the I4 to a journalist at this time, have they carried out any of the alterations to the gearbox etc since feedback from the original round of press reviews? In a way you'd hope they have, but then again wouldn't be surprised if it's unchanged...

The journalist who had the I4 back in November has now reviewed the car

Lotus Emira I4 2024 review

Tim Pitt drives the new four-cylinder Lotus Emira I4. Does an exotic AMG engine and dual-clutch gearbox make for a better sports car?

www.motoringresearch.com

Overall summary was that he preferred the I4 to the V6 he had tested previously but would still go for a GTS due to the naturally aspirated flat 6.

Further points, he'd driven the A45S shortly before the Emira and noticed the drop in power (but there was still no shortage of speed) and also thought the transmission wasn't as sharp as in the A45S, though was still exciting in isolation. No mention of the transmission feeling sluggish per se, but that the AMG seemed more alert.

What we don't know is whether the car has had any tweaks since the first round of I4 reviews.

 

[ak3888]

Hi there, I got an email from Lotus Cars Australia last Friday saying that my car (I4) has been built and is in transit, been given a wide ETA date range sighting shipping/clearance delays. Anyone else in Aus or outside of the UK getting comms of their I4 arrival?

 

[ninjin]

Does anyone think the delay is due to the new rules for manufacturers that they have to sell 20% of annual sales in EV or everycar that is not EV gets fined £13k? (this is for the UK, not sure about Europe)

This is what's happening at Toyota, hence the rush to sell all the GR86 before end of 2023. Not sure if Lotus is a large enough producer to fall under these same rules. If this is the case, they need to see some many Eletre they can sell. If not enough, then its going to be another £13k price rise on the i4 and v6.