RacingBrake Carbon Ceramic Rotor Install

[silent cilantro]

"A larger rotor will increase the brake torque but it doesn't change the brake bias.

How is that possible? They are in agreement that front brake torque is increased by the use of larger rotors. The rear rotors are not oversized so rear brake torque is unchanged from OEM. That effectively moves bias towards the front.

Emira's front rotor increase to 380 is following the same upgrade path as Porsche 997 in which 997.2 front rotor was oversized to 380 from 997.1's 350mm, while the same calipers were used and so is the rear rotor @350mm.

Maybe Porsche realized that specific platform could benefit from more front bias and that is why they made the change. Doesn’t mean other cars from other brands would benefit from the same modification.

@Eagle7, not arguing with you, just questioning what RB is telling you.

 

[Eagle7]

How is that possible? They are in agreement that front brake torque is increased by the use of larger rotors. The rear rotors are not oversized so rear brake torque is unchanged from OEM. That effectively moves bias towards the front.



Maybe Porsche realized that specific platform could benefit from more front bias and that is why they made the change. Doesn’t mean other cars from other brands would benefit from the same modification.

@Eagle7, not arguing with you, just questioning what RB is telling you.

Did you look at the link to the McLaren forum about the RB CCB brakes? Good stuff.

 

[kitkat]

Did you look at the link to the McLaren forum about the RB CCB brakes? Good stuff.

I read all of it and none of this development was done on the Emira. None of it addresses brake bias on the Emira. If anything all evidence (statements from rb and incorrect rotor hats) just points to this kit being hobbled together from supplies on hand.

The statement that brake bias is not affected by a change in brake torque on one axle is insane.

I get that you might need to justify your purchases but no amount of spreadsheeting is going to convince me this is a well developed solution.

I won’t reply further past this as I understand this is a ccb brake install thread, sorry for hijacking OP.

 

[Eagle7]

I read all of it and none of this development was done on the Emira. None of it addresses brake bias on the Emira. If anything all evidence (statements from rb and incorrect rotor hats) just points to this kit being hobbled together from supplies on hand.

The statement that brake bias is not affected by a change in brake torque on one axle is insane.

I get that you might need to justify your purchases but no amount of spreadsheeting is going to convince me this is a well developed solution.

I won’t reply further past this as I understand this is a ccb brake install thread, sorry for hijacking OP.

Honestly I'm surprised at the animosity here. I'm not trying to justify anything. I've been a customer of RB for 15 years, and they've always been great to deal with, and I've never had any issues with their products. I trust their advice since they've been building and supplying custom brake solutions for lots of solutions on street and track for a long time.

The difference in the front rotor is 10mm, 3/8" bigger on a rotor that's already 370mm (14.5"). The calipers are the same 4 pot calipers. The rear rotor and caliper are the same as stock. If the kit changed the fronts to 6 pot calipers, with much larger brake pads, then yeah, brake bias would change.

You've changed pads which change brake torque. You've removed a lot of weight with lighter seats, which changes the weight balance. This is what modding does; it changes things.

Yes they pulled from inventory to provide a CCB solution at a much cheaper price than if they had to create one from scratch. Did Tillet custom design and build special seats just for the Emira, or did they "cobble" together from supplies on hand?

Honestly I think you've way over-reacted here, but since you said you weren't going to reply further, if you wish to continue this, you can start a new thread just on brakes and I'll respond there.

 

[crashprash]

Seems a bit odd that the vendor has not replied to any of these comments and there is little to not activity from them on this forum since they initially advertised their products (although they are a supporting vendor). Nothing against them personally - I have their track pads but am now questioning whether I would get their rotors as well if this is the level of after sales service they provide and lack of community engagement

 

[Eagle7]

Seems a bit odd that the vendor has not replied to any of these comments and there is little to not activity from them on this forum since they initially advertised their products (although they are a supporting vendor). Nothing against them personally - I have their track pads but am now questioning whether I would get their rotors as well if this is the level of after sales service they provide and lack of community engagement

I asked about them coming in and commenting and this is what they said: "It's perfectly alright to adopt to front big rotors w/o any concern but as you know "anything is debatable" on forums. This is part of the reason we can't participate as it can consume a lot of our time yet prove or accomplish nothing. But if you ever run into any questions you need help please feel free to ask."

I can completely understand that sentiment. Like I've said, I've had nothing but a great experience with them over the years.

Another thing to consider is this: since it seems all the computers on the Emira are constantly talking to each other and making adjustments based on sensor feedback, there's a good chance the brake bias is also something that's adjusted by the ABS computer as the system gets feedback. I know the ECU adjusts over time, so it's not unreasonable to expect that the other computers in the car are doing the same.

As soon as the weather improves to the point where I can install the CCB rotors and pads and do some driving, I'll report the results.

 

[Brokenblinker]

I don't think they need to debate anything. I would just be curious to know how much 5mm increase in radius shifts the brake bias. I'd love to see the number. It probably is mostly insignificant.

 

[silent cilantro]

It's perfectly alright to adopt to front big rotors w/o any concern but as you know "anything is debatable" on forums. This is part of the reason we can't participate as it can consume a lot of our time yet prove or accomplish nothing.

They sure were quick to come in the forums to advertise though. Why would they not want to chime in and explain their logic?

Basically all they are saying is “it’s ok, trust us” but show nothing to back that up.

 

[Eagle7]

I don't think they need to debate anything. I would just be curious to know how much 5mm increase in radius shifts the brake bias. I'd love to see the number. It probably is mostly insignificant.

If you change to stronger brake pads, that's going to change the bias. If you change to stickier tires, that's going to change the bias. For a car that weighs over 3,000 lbs, this just isn't going to make a dramatic change in the bias. What I'm looking forward to is a more linear braking response to the pedal, and virtually no brake dust.

 

[Eagle7]

They sure were quick to come in the forums to advertise though. Why would they not want to chime in and explain their logic?

Basically all they are saying is “it’s ok, trust us” but show nothing to back that up.

They came in because I asked them to. Like I said, I've done business with them a long time. I asked Warren (the owner) if he had anything CCB-wise for the Emira, sent him a picture of my car, and he looked into it right away. He said he needed a car to look at, so I posted that request in the forum and a member responded, took their car to them and they did the measurements. They were able to find a solution that fit our cars without having to go to the expense of creating new rotors. The only thing they'll need to do (which they've already got in the works) is modify the hat for the front rotor so the alignment screw will fit. I asked him to come into the forum and join our community, which he did.

We had this same skepticism about the Eventuri, so I got one, installed it and did some dyno runs which showed it did what they said it would do. Like I said, I'll report on the results after I get the CCB's installed. If anybody has any worries or doubts, just hang in there until I can do a report. I'm going to do some Dragy runs before I install them, so I'll have times with the factory iron rotors, and times afterwards with the CCB rotors. I expect the times will be better with the lighter rotors, but I'll post whatever the results are, good bad or indifferent.