Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[First Lotus]

I don't know if my thinking will help anyone, but I have always been going for sport because it didn't seem 'right' to go for anything else on this 'sports'car.
However, I'm getting a manual and will rarely track it.
But what has occurred to me recently is that sports is seeking upto 1 second off lap times. Well, as good a driver as I think I am, I will be way over a second quicker in the DCT box (all other things being equal) so if I'm tracking a lot, surely I'd go for that. The manual is the engaging drive when on the roads and not 100% flat out. And that scenario appears to favour the touring.
I do have one eye on the resale as I think I'll get lazier as I get older and eventually go DCT when they up the power. But I've recently been minded to think that the touring won't suffer to sports in resale as the vast majority of emira owners will predominantly be on road. If you want a track weapon... The exige with higher power and less weight I'd there for you!
I think there is a chance the touring may even be the favoured in resale. But we just don't know. And I caveat that with... Unless there is a decent cost to obtaining the sports (with drivers pack) when the option list eventually shows itself!

 

[Leonard]

I think there is a chance the touring may even be the favoured in resale. But we just don't know. And I caveat that with... Unless there is a decent cost to obtaining the sports (with drivers pack) when the option list eventually shows itself!

I think you could be right.
A lot of the good journalists favour British B road manners now over outright track speed. So hopefully this will set the tone unless Lotus get it really wrong with the Tour suspension, which is unlikely!

 

[TomE]

I'm really curious whether they're going to continue the zero cost difference Touring/Sports on the i4 FE and what price they put on Sports as an option on the Base Edition.

If they say, for example, that Sports is a £2k option on Base then I can see a lot of people getting it on the FE if it's in effect no extra cost. That worries me a little, as it'll mean some people choosing Sports for the wrong reasons.

We should have the pricing in March and will no doubt debate it at length then

 

[Leonard]

I'm really curious whether they're going to continue the zero cost difference Touring/Sports on the i4 FE and what price they put on Sports as an option on the Base Edition.

If they say, for example, that Sports is a £2k option on Base then I can see a lot of people getting it on the FE if it's in effect no extra cost. That worries me a little, as it'll mean some people choosing Sports for the wrong reasons.

We should have the pricing in March and will no doubt debate it at length then

You are 100% there and if you can I'd definitely feed that back, as ultimately it will mean some new to Lotus customers do not get the best experience from the brand and could easily default back to Porsche etc.
The sensible choice would be keep them both as no cost options and price up the Drivers pack at a suitable surcharge

 

[eclat2emira]

I'm really curious whether they're going to continue the zero cost difference Touring/Sports on the i4 FE and what price they put on Sports as an option on the Base Edition.

If they say, for example, that Sports is a £2k option on Base then I can see a lot of people getting it on the FE if it's in effect no extra cost. That worries me a little, as it'll mean some people choosing Sports for the wrong reasons.

We should have the pricing in March and will no doubt debate it at length then

That's going to be an interesting one to watch Tom (I'm Gavin BTW, would seem rude to use your name if I'm not sharing mine!)

My understanding is that in automotive, as in many other sectors, the margin made on "extras" often far exceeds the core margin. Everything I've read on Touring and Sports suggests Sports is not an upgrade or better - it's just different. The differences don't sound like ones that mean Lotus incurs more cost (damper valving, ARB, hub alignment) so charging for Sports would seem like a stretch - although there are plenty of others at it!

It's quite different to what TVR used to do with cars like the Griffith - my brother's 500 came with the optional "handling kit" (at extra cost) designed to eliminate the undesirable aspects of the car's handling. If that's not a massive admission of failure when you are building sports car I don't know what is!

The Lotus Emira scenario is very different and aimed at giving the customer choice, which is hard to knock, but charging for it wouldn't seem right.

 

[Samps]

I'm really curious whether they're going to continue the zero cost difference Touring/Sports on the i4 FE and what price they put on Sports as an option on the Base Edition.

If they say, for example, that Sports is a £2k option on Base then I can see a lot of people getting it on the FE if it's in effect no extra cost. That worries me a little, as it'll mean some people choosing Sports for the wrong reasons.

We should have the pricing in March and will no doubt debate it at length then

Silly me - I thought the option / packs / colours and suspension choices for the i4 FE would be exactly the same as the FEv6 but I’ve realised that’s based on absolutely no facts whatsoever!

More to worry about other than the price of the I4

Is it March yet?

 

[New to Lotus]

I think the i4fe will have the spec as the v6fe. But it will be interesting to see where the pricing goes on options I actually think the amount of spec you get on the fe is a good deal at 10k for 13jk face value if that's what it is?.

 

[TomE]

You are 100% there and if you can I'd definitely feed that back, as ultimately it will mean some new to Lotus customers do not get the best experience from the brand and could easily default back to Porsche etc.
The sensible choice would be keep them both as no cost options and price up the Drivers pack at a suitable surcharge

You're assuming I have a more significant level of influence than is actually the case I can't even persuade them to issue an email update to deposit holders, so my chances of influencing pricing strategy are negligible!

I think it's interesting they're not different costs on the V6 FE, which I know has been a deliberate strategy. I hope they carry that over.

 

[TomE]

That's going to be an interesting one to watch Tom (I'm Gavin BTW, would seem rude to use your name if I'm not sharing mine!)

My understanding is that in automotive, as in many other sectors, the margin made on "extras" often far exceeds the core margin. Everything I've read on Touring and Sports suggests Sports is not an upgrade or better - it's just different. The differences don't sound like ones that mean Lotus incurs more cost (damper valving, ARB, hub alignment) so charging for Sports would seem like a stretch - although there are plenty of others at it!

It's quite different to what TVR used to do with cars like the Griffith - my brother's 500 came with the optional "handling kit" (at extra cost) designed to eliminate the undesirable aspects of the car's handling. If that's not a massive admission of failure when you are building sports car I don't know what is!

The Lotus Emira scenario is very different and aimed at giving the customer choice, which is hard to knock, but charging for it wouldn't seem right.

I agree and it would be a good way for Lotus to emphasise that they're just different, not better or more costly. In the past they have charged for a Sports setup but often that's meant adding adjustable dampers so clearly a different component.

 

[TomE]

I think the i4fe will have the spec as the v6fe. But it will be interesting to see where the pricing goes on options I actually think the amount of spec you get on the fe is a good deal at 10k for 13jk face value if that's what it is?.

That's right , it's a decent discount of about £3k on the V6 FE and I'm assuming will be similar on the i4 FE.

I don't think they'll leave anything off the i4 FE that's on the V6 FE - there will be no mechanical LSD but I think it will have an e-diff instead. It's likely the i4 FE will have ADAS, which the V6 FE doesn't. I guess they may have ADAS as a cost option, but some elements may be needed as standard for upcoming regulations.

 

[Samps]

I think the i4fe will have the spec as the v6fe. But it will be interesting to see where the pricing goes on options I actually think the amount of spec you get on the fe is a good deal at 10k for 13jk face value if that's what it is?.

Thank you and that would ring true to TomE best guess estimates of i4 FE pricing -

£60k base plus £10 FE extras (discounted) = £70k plus otr

I personally think that’s reasonable (assuming £70k spent could ever be reasonable)

Compared to Caymans it’s competitive -

718 2.5 S may start at £60k but if you remotely make it desirable (I.e climate control / door handles / windscreen etc) it’s £70k

Gt4 may start at £78k but if you remotely make it desirable (cruise control ffs / boot lid / fuel cap etc) its £85k

£40 extra for tyre repair kits on those prices? Really!?

 

[eclat2emira]

Thank you and that would ring true to TomE best guess estimates of i4 FE pricing -

£60k base plus £10 FE extras (discounted) = £70k plus otr

I personally think that’s reasonable (assuming £70k spent could ever be reasonable)

Compared to Caymans it’s competitive -

718 2.5 S may start at £60k but if you remotely make it desirable (I.e climate control / door handles / windscreen etc) it’s £70k

Gt4 may start at £78k but if you remotely make it desirable (cruise control ffs / boot lid / fuel cap etc) its £85k

£40 extra for tyre repair kits on those prices? Really!?

"718 2.5 S may start at £60k but if you remotely make it desirable (I.e climate control / door handles / windscreen etc) it’s £70k"

 

[bbpxbbpx]

Do you think that perhaps the drivers pack is the cost option instead of the sports suspension?

Maybe the drivers pack then gives us the option to go with the sports suspension setup. Cost wise I guess the difference in bushing and geometry is minimal, but costs more to have LSD with manual and enabling the track mode?

This is just my speculations. I am leaning towards Touring, but if sports suspension itself is a cost option, I could be persuaded to get sport.

First deposit on 27-Jul. Waiting to be told which month and year I will get to drive one.

Ben

 

[New to Lotus]

Correct I recently test drove and specced up a 718 gts due to conflicting comments on here as that's where I think the emira is pitched.
The car was nice, drove well sounded good, great motor. What was really interesting is that specced up to match the emira it was close to 85k plus a wait for it 1 year waiting list and I couldn't get the seats far enough back for my hight but they were lovely to sit in.

 

[New to Lotus]

I think that a good shout no cost option between sports and touring that's your set up preference its a sports car either way. Cost option on packs only.

 

[andrew6382]

Correct I recently test drove and specced up a 718 gts due to conflicting comments on here as that's where I think the emira is pitched.
The car was nice, drove well sounded good, great motor. What was really interesting is that specced up to match the emira it was close to 85k plus a wait for it 1 year waiting list and I couldn't get the seats far enough back for my hight but they were lovely to sit in.

Yep tried same few weeks back.... this was the 4.0L GTS ? keep seeing people saying cayman 718 option.... but not sure the know standard 718 is 4 pot...... there was, not sure if still a 718.. GTS 2.5L 4 pot around..... was your 85k with top option hifi

Like you said 1 year wait... just been speaking Merc dealer 18 months for E53

 

[TomE]

Do you think that perhaps the drivers pack is the cost option instead of the sports suspension?

Maybe the drivers pack then gives us the option to go with the sports suspension setup. Cost wise I guess the difference in bushing and geometry is minimal, but costs more to have LSD with manual and enabling the track mode?

This is just my speculations. I am leaning towards Touring, but if sports suspension itself is a cost option, I could be persuaded to get sport.

First deposit on 27-Jul. Waiting to be told which month and year I will get to drive one.

Ben

It would be good if they charged for the Drivers Pack but then you had a suspension and tyre choice with no cost difference. If you go for Base Edition then you have to take Drivers Pack to get Sports suspension, at least according to currently published info.

 

[New to Lotus]

The sports wheel tyre combo is in drivers pack but also in no cost options, could be a clue there.

 

[Porter]

I've been told the ARB is the same but is adjustable and set up differently for each. The bushes are different between the two setups. I think Gav has also made reference to it in one of the videos. It was the same one where he was talking about the benefits of the extra front track compared to the Evora.

This is huge if it really does have a single adjustable bar used by both variants. For those of us who like a more aggressive spring/damper but want to retain some of the initial body roll during transitions to help the "feel" on roads in the real world, maybe we could spec the Sports suspension but set the ARB to the softer setting to get the additional roll compliance. It would be less optimized for the Cup2 tires, but for those of us going the Goodyear route it could be more appropriate all around.

Is there any way that you know of to get this specific technical detail clarified?

 

[andrew6382]

Useful videos

Harry's Garage - interview with Russell Carr, driving on track in Emira V6 with Sports suspension and Cup2s, choosing config:


Schmee team at Hethel including talking about Touring and Sports and tyres, on track in Emira V6 with Touring and Eagles. The bit of roll you see in the video is designed in and, as Dan says, is to give the driver feedback about speed and corner force. This is a better experience for a regular driver, as it helps you understand the physics of the car. They also describe how amazing the front end grip and handling appears to be. Notice that even when sideways round the circuit there is only minor body roll.


Plus see videos of Evora S and Evora GT410/GT reviews for their impressions of ride and handling, for example this Evora GT410 review:


This is me in my Evora S (equivalent to Touring suspension on the Emira) chasing my buddies in an Exige and Elise on a famous hill climb on the Isle of Man (no speed limits). Corners are 50-80mph. Spot the body roll?



In conclusion

To some extent the differences are not massive. If you only drove Sports you’d be happy with it. And if you had Touring and never knew about Sport you’d be very happy too. Owners of Evora S generally don’t say “I wish it had stiffer suspension” and Evora GT410 owners don’t complain about crashiness and their fillings falling out.

Buy based on your likely usage and driving preferences, not on what you have been influenced to think based on how other marques approach ride and handling. If you're still not sure, get Touring.


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My day at Hethel

I've got lots to share from my day at the Lotus Hethel factory and test track yesterday. Bear with me, it won't all be in one post and I will add to this thread during today and tomorrow. I'm also adding updates on relevant threads too, such as about specific features and the process in the...

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Tom.... thank you....exceptional work ..... just wonderful @TomE