Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[TomE]

This is huge if it really does have a single adjustable bar used by both variants. For those of us who like a more aggressive spring/damper but want to retain some of the initial body roll during transitions to help the "feel" on roads in the real world, maybe we could spec the Sports suspension but set the ARB to the softer setting to get the additional roll compliance. It would be less optimized for the Cup2 tires, but for those of us going the Goodyear route it could be more appropriate all around.

Is there any way that you know of to get this specific technical detail clarified?

I assume it could be adjusted like that. Bear in mind the initial roll is influenced by several things, including the damper settings and the spring rating too. So softening the ARB setup will give you some extra roll but the dampers will have a bigger influence on the "set" point, ie how far the car rolls before stiffening up.

I don't know if it makes sense as an approach. There are several other in-between options, such as doing the Sports geo setup on the Touring and using Goodyears with Sports. You could also do the Touring geo on Sports.

Your best bet on a technical clarification is to email the Emira Customer Care Team ([email protected]). They are getting better about referring these types of questions to the relevant engineering team for a response.

 

[ADC]

Thanks for accumulating all this great insight into one thread @TomE

I think at this point, I've made my peace with going Touring to begin with, getting a feel for the setup, and modifying later if it really needs it (which sounds unlikely if I'm being realistic about my use case and abilities).

 

[Porter]

I assume it could be adjusted like that. Bear in mind the initial roll is influenced by several things, including the damper settings and the spring rating too. So softening the ARB setup will give you some extra roll but the dampers will have a bigger influence on the "set" point, ie how far the car rolls before stiffening up.

I don't know if it makes sense as an approach. There are several other in-between options, such as doing the Sports geo setup on the Touring and using Goodyears with Sports. You could also do the Touring geo on Sports.

Your best bet on a technical clarification is to email the Emira Customer Care Team ([email protected]). They are getting better about referring these types of questions to the relevant engineering team for a response.

Honestly our assumptions might be backwards anyway. The Sports could have stiffer springs and dampers, but have softened ARB position to compensate. And the Touring could have softer springs and dampers, with a firmer ARB setting to provide additional roll control with the softer spring. We have no idea. And without knowing the actual spring rates involved in each type these are all wild guesses regarding the particular differences anyway.

I think there are a lot of details about these two configurations that are only going to be discovered by owners through direct comparison and experimentation, unless Lotus decides to release a lot more setup and handling information than would be typical for a manufacturer. They also have their handling consultancy business to protect, so I would understand if they kept these kinds of decision points to themselves.

 

[ADC]

Honestly our assumptions might be backwards anyway. The Sports could have stiffer springs and dampers, but have softened ARB position to compensate. And the Touring could have softer springs and dampers, with a firmer ARB setting to provide additional roll control with the softer spring. We have no idea. And without knowing the actual spring rates involved in each type these are all wild guesses regarding the particular differences anyway.

Indeed. This is exactly the approach I took in order to make my current Audi not feel like it was suspended on blocks of granite... softer spring rate, but firmer dampers and significantly beefed-up ARBs

 

[Singularity]

Useful videos

Harry's Garage - interview with Russell Carr, driving on track in Emira V6 with Sports suspension and Cup2s, choosing config:


Schmee team at Hethel including talking about Touring and Sports and tyres, on track in Emira V6 with Touring and Eagles. The bit of roll you see in the video is designed in and, as Dan says, is to give the driver feedback about speed and corner force. This is a better experience for a regular driver, as it helps you understand the physics of the car. They also describe how amazing the front end grip and handling appears to be. Notice that even when sideways round the circuit there is only minor body roll.


Plus see videos of Evora S and Evora GT410/GT reviews for their impressions of ride and handling, for example this Evora GT410 review:


This is me in my Evora S (equivalent to Touring suspension on the Emira) chasing my buddies in an Exige and Elise on a famous hill climb on the Isle of Man (no speed limits). Corners are 50-80mph. Spot the body roll?



In conclusion

To some extent the differences are not massive. If you only drove Sports you’d be happy with it. And if you had Touring and never knew about Sport you’d be very happy too. Owners of Evora S generally don’t say “I wish it had stiffer suspension” and Evora GT410 owners don’t complain about crashiness and their fillings falling out.

Buy based on your likely usage and driving preferences, not on what you have been influenced to think based on how other marques approach ride and handling. If you're still not sure, get Touring.


If you came here from my Hethel visit write up then you can get back there through this link:

My day at Hethel

I've got lots to share from my day at the Lotus Hethel factory and test track yesterday. Bear with me, it won't all be in one post and I will add to this thread during today and tomorrow. I'm also adding updates on relevant threads too, such as about specific features and the process in the...

www.emiraforum.com

#ForTheDrivers

View attachment 3199

Absolutely fantastic articles Tom, thank you. They have been carefully crafted, they flow well and also subtly reinforce the messages and information throughout in slightly different ways to help understanding - masterful.

They confirm my view that I’ll go with Touring since I expect to use my Emira as a weekend tourer and for touring holidays; although I expect I won’t be able to resist the temptation to try her on a track as well.

Cheers.

 

[Golfer1971]

Very well done, Tom!
Your posts here confirmed my specs (touring), because of the further use for my Emira.
I‘ll take some rides, when the Emira is with me and I will decide afterwords if my decision was good, but I guess my decision was good.
If not, I can change springs and dampers later on against the sports suspension.
That’s the way I‘ll do!

 

[Balboa]

My longer explanation on the options

Touring (I wish they'd changed the name): this should be called "Road mainly ... and fine on Track". This will suit the majority of people who want a fun and spirited drive on a range of road types and surface qualities. It's not soft and saggy, you just have a smoother ride and still get loads of engagement. In high speed and sharp corners there will be some body roll but only enough to help you gauge the cornering dynamics. There will be excellent steering feel and feedback. It will ride bumps and uneven surfaces well whilst maintaining good grip. This setup makes a lot of sense for a daily driver and for road trips and fun leisure driving. It will also be very capable on track - most drivers will reach their own limits before the limits of the car. Touring will suit a lot of people and so far 60%+ of people have specified it.

Sports: this should be called "Track mainly ... and OK on Road". This will suit people who mainly use the car for weekend fun drives and/or track days. It will be sharper and stiffer, but not as stiff as an Exige or Sport+/Track setup with other marques. The sharper ride and handling comes with some small compromises, particularly on poor quality surfaces. This includes not only potholes but also broken or poorly-repaired surfaces, off-camber corners, concrete highways with cross-joints and tarmac with undulations. The condition of these surfaces will be more apparent to you through the steering and through the seat, and more apparent to your passenger. On longer journeys this could be more tiring. If you're coming from a car with a stiffer setup then you may be fine with this, but don't assume you have to get Sports with the Emira. For some people "enhanced feel" might mean too much feedback, depending on what you've driven before.

Bear in mind Sports isn't an "everything is better" option. It involves compromises. The stiffer springs/dampers and bushes and increased camber are geared towards track use and hence are designed to help the car perform in situations where the car is lapping at high speed, with high G corners, with severe and frequent changes of direction, and running a Cup2 track tyre optimised for those high speeds. This means on the road the tyre contact patch will not be as well-optimised as on track, straight line stability will be slightly lower and if you use the Cup2s then those won't work as well at lower temperatures.

Most people are unlikely to reach the limits of the car on track in Touring setup. The Track setting on Drive mode/DPM will give you another 0.5 to 1.0 seconds a lap advantage. Replacing the Goodyears with Cup2s on track with Touring will give you a few tenths more on a dry track, at the expense of quicker tyre wear and sub-optimal performance in cold and wet conditions.


Tyres

Tyres make up a significant part of the ride and handling equation, including contact patch, grip and sidewall compression/flex. Both tyre options for the Emira have been developed in collaboration with the manufacturers and are Lotus-specific versions of the tyres, so carry an "LTS" designation.

Goodyear develops a unique Eagle F1 SuperSport for the new Lotus Emira

Lotus has launched the Emira, the latest in a long line of stunning mid-engined cars from the famous UK sports car manufacturer. Lotus has selected the Goodyear Eagle F1 SuperSport as the original equipment tyre for the new model.The Emira has been developed to offer the trademark precision and...

news.goodyear.eu

With Touring the tyres are Goodyear Eagle F1 as standard. For Sports you have a choice of the Eagles or Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres. The Cup 2s are very track-focused and great if you're chasing lap times. They wear faster. But if you're likely to have cold or wet weather bear in mind their performance is degraded.

Pairing the Sports suspension with the Eagles is a good middle ground, which Gav has referenced in a few interviews. If you get into track days and have Touring, then switching to Cup2s (or having a second set of wheels with them on) is equally feasible if you want to improve times. But in many cases, an investment in driver training is going to make you faster on track than different tyres.

I've done a quick price check on the tyre options. The LTS versions of the Goodyears aren't on sale yet so I've used standard versions. It'll be roughly £840 for a set of the Goodyears and about £1200 for a set of the Michelins. Prices can change a lot with seasons, manufacturer offers etc and the LTS Eagles may be more expensive. But it gives you a rough idea. Also bear in mind that in like for like usage, the Cup2s will wear out more quickly.

Of course you can look at alternatives to the OEM tyres and the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S is a popular choice on Evoras and on other sportscars. My view is Lotus spend hours of testing to select the suspension components, tyre manufacturer and compounds. So I tend to trust their judgement from two years of fine tuning the setup, as tyres are a key component of overall ride and handling. Of course Lotus are also managing to a budget, but I know Gav made a strong case for the Goodyears as the tyre choice for Emira and it was an R&H-led decision not a budgetary one.

In winter conditions (below 7 degrees and in snow/ice) you're more concerned about safety than performance and R&H. So Lotus tend to recommend a winter tyre that isn't a Lotus-specific design, but they will still recommend a particular brand/model of tyre. I haven't seen anything about recommendations for the Emira yet but for Evora it was Yokohama W-Drive.

Tyre sizes are 245/35/20 front and 295/30/20 rear for both Eagle F1s and Cup 2s.


How can I test drive something that's close enough before demo Emiras are available?

You can test drive different versions of the Evora to get a good idea of the differences between the two setups.

Touring on the Emira is equivalent to the Evora S (Series 1) setup.

Sports is equivalent to the Evora GT410 (GT in the US) setup.

Any recent Exige V6 is a stiffer setup than Sports on the Emira.

I found it very useful to drive the two different Evoras back to back over the same roads. The main difference between them was steering feel and feedback, much more coming through with the GT410. I could get the GT410 to break traction on some particularly poorly surfaced cross-country roads, whereas the S maintained grip and hence traction. On a 50mph road that had recently been resurfaced but wasn't flat level, my passenger commented the GT410 followed every undulation of the road surface whereas the S tended to glide more and level out those variations.


What about resale values?

I'm sure "the market" will say Sport = better, because everyone has been conditioned by other brands to think Sport = upgrade = better so they can sell it to you as a cost option. But there are lengthy threads on every Lotus forum with arguments for and against each setup on the Emira. And, as Gav and everyone else at Lotus has said, it really depends on your usage. They will both be brilliant and both have slight compromises in certain situations.

At the moment both options cost the same on the First Edition V6. It's possible that when Base Edition pricing comes out that there is a cost premium for Sports, but we don't know yet. Both setups have the same component count and similar components. We do know that to get Sports suspension you will need to specify the Drivers Pack (which includes Track drive mode and Track features in the drivers display, LSD for the V6 manual and switchable exhaust sound) and that will probably be a cost option.

If you're worried about resale bear in mind that the current split is roughly 60/40 Touring/Sports, so there will be a good-sized market for cars with Touring. Sport may command a slight premium. I'd recommend getting the one you'll enjoy driving the most, rather than the one the next owner "might" pay a modest premium for.

Will the choice between Sports & Touring have any effect on steering responsiveness? I have a Jag F-Type and when I put it in Dynamic (Sport) mode it tightens the steering up significantly which I love. Feels slightly sloppier in normal mode. If there is no difference in how tight/responsive the steering is I'd probably go Touring since the roads where I live aren't great. But if Touring sacrifices steering responsiveness I'd probably suck up the harsh bumps and chose Sport. I'm not as concerned about grip limit in the corners as I won't be exceeding limit of either setup. What do you think?

 

[Golfer1971]

Will the choice between Sports & Touring have any effect on steering responsiveness? I have a Jag F-Type and when I put it in Dynamic (Sport) mode it tightens the steering up significantly which I love. Feels slightly sloppier in normal mode. If there is no difference in how tight/responsive the steering is I'd probably go Touring since the roads where I live aren't great. But if Touring sacrifices steering responsiveness I'd probably suck up the harsh bumps and chose Sport. I'm not as concerned about grip limit in the corners as I won't be exceeding limit of either setup. What do you think?

Well, my GTI does it as well.
I like it when the steering responsive is much more tight when in sports mode. Sports mode is also changing the suspension to get harder. On high speed it is very recommended!
Anyway … I‘m still curious to get my Emira this year!

 

[TomE]

Will the choice between Sports & Touring have any effect on steering responsiveness? I have a Jag F-Type and when I put it in Dynamic (Sport) mode it tightens the steering up significantly which I love. Feels slightly sloppier in normal mode. If there is no difference in how tight/responsive the steering is I'd probably go Touring since the roads where I live aren't great. But if Touring sacrifices steering responsiveness I'd probably suck up the harsh bumps and chose Sport. I'm not as concerned about grip limit in the corners as I won't be exceeding limit of either setup. What do you think?

The steering is identical between the two but you will get a different feel and feedback through the steering with Sports because of the suspension differences.

Driving the two different Evora setups back to back I would say you have more awareness of the road surface (and imperfections) with Sports, which is fine if you want that extra connectedness. But it can be too much feedback for some people, particularly on long journeys and poor surfaces. The steering feel and feedback is very good with Touring, better than many other cars, so shouldn't be regarded as a "soft" option.

 

[KJD]

Will the choice between Sports & Touring have any effect on steering responsiveness?

Hydraulic steering on the Emira, so doesn’t change with different drive modes as with the electric steering in your Jag, if that’s what you’re asking.

It might feel slightly different because of the different geo between the Tour and Sport suspension, but won’t actually be.

Like all Lotus, the steering will be fantastic. If you don’t like how it feels you’ll be in a very small minority.

Edit: Tom pressed enter just before I did!

 

[PaulP]

For those who live in areas with smooth, well-surfaced roads - I'm envious of your roads and Sport may be a practical choice.

There exists such a magical place?

 

[eclat2emira]

There exists such a magical place?

Perhaps only in our dreams?!

 

[andrew6382]

Perhaps only in our dreams?!

French B roads are better than UK B roads and there A roads sat at set of lights once, car pulled up behind me...... girl friend said it must be rush hour..... Have driven from Calais to Hesdin France.... only seeing a hand full of cars..... and most of it 80mph

 

[Lankan]

That is an excellent account of all the information one would need to make a decision on the area that is least well described in the marketing blurb on the Emira. Well done, and thank you.

The choice of wheels and suspension were the two I had difficulty in deciding on, so I was planning on delaying my final configuration, but have gone with the Touring option based on feedback received following the Hethel visit by a few members, Tom being one of them. This information, together with follow-up discussions on this topic, very neatly brings together everything one needs to know about making a choice between the two suspension options, bar actually driving an Emira.

From my experience, the Exige S2 had various damper options, sourced from 3 different manufacturers; Bilstein, Nitron, and Ohlins. All had their positives and negatives, and one of significance is how frequently these dampers need to be refurbished/rebuilt - basically the higher the (on-track) performance the more frequent the rebuilds, especially with frequent use during winter months.

 

[hagen111]

I choose Sports and Cup2 tires. Car will be driven mainly on the road. Why? Because I hope my Emira will have some of the roughness of my old Exige V6…I loved that car and how sharp it was!

It also depends what else you have in the garage… as a single daily car I would always opt for touring. I have a stock 911 for that purpose, and it is brilliant! For nice mountain runs I want to take the Emira and hope it will be a true lotus with sharp steering! Similar to a GT3…a car I also love dearly! V6, manual, sports suspension and cup2 tires….man I am looking forward to that!!!

 

[digilotus]

I choose Sports and Cup2 tires. Car will be driven mainly on the road. Why? Because I hope my Emira will have some of the roughness of my old Exige V6…I loved that car and how sharp it was!

It also depends what else you have in the garage… as a single daily car I would always opt for touring. I have a stock 911 for that purpose, and it is brilliant! For nice mountain runs I want to take the Emira and hope it will be a true lotus with sharp steering! Similar to a GT3…a car I also love dearly! V6, manual, sports suspension and cup2 tires….man I am looking forward to that!!!

Same reasoning here. As a second car I want the experience to be as sensory as possible. So sports and cup2s for me too!

 

[digilotus]

New video on the suspension topic

 

[FederGigant]

Maybe I overread it, but as far as I understood, the closest match to the sport suspension is the Evora GT 410, right? Does that imply that the Evora GT 410 Sport and the 430 GT are even firmer than the Emira with sport suspension?

 

[digilotus]

Maybe I overread it, but as far as I understood, the closest match to the sport suspension is the Evora GT 410, right? Does that imply that the Evora GT 410 Sport and the 430 GT are even firmer than the Emira with sport suspension?

My assumption is that the Emira sports setup will be similar to the GT410 Sport / GT430 or US GT setup and touring more like the Evora 400. However this is just an indicator as advised by dealers - we won’t know until actual test drives.

 

[VL3X]

My assumption is that the Emira sports setup will be similar to the GT410 Sport / GT430 or US GT setup and touring more like the Evora 400. However this is just an indicator as advised by dealers - we won’t know until actual test drives.

Correct. Sports isn't going to kill your back or rattle the car to pieces. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the sport suspension is even a bit softer than the Evora GT430/US GT, since the Emira seems to be toned down a bit (especially with the Goodyears). Touring is aimed for those planning to daily drive their Emira through town. It'll certainly be firmer than than your quiet luxury Lexus ride, but it'll still be comfortable for those not used to, or wanting, a dialed in sports car suspension that feels every bump (which some of us actually like).