Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[VL3X]

Another component to this balance of performance, flexibility, and price -- is longevity.

Very true! Even the best coilovers require rebuilds now and then. While quality shocks (like Bilsteins) can easily last well over 100k miles. This is why I opted for Bilstein B8s and Eibach Pro spring on my GTI (similar set up as the Emira). It provides the ride quality, handling, and height I want and will last a very long time.

 

[kitkat]

Very true! Even the best coilovers require rebuilds now and then. While quality shocks (like Bilsteins) can easily last well over 100k miles. This is why I opted for Bilstein B8s and Eibach Pro spring on my GTI (similar set up as the Emira). It provides the ride quality, handling, and height I want and will last a very long time.

Absolutely on the money, those OEM quality dampers last a really long time but have moderate performance when pushed (repeatable damping characteristics throughout temperature range). On the other hand an Ohlins TTX damper after one year of street use or one season of track use have wildly different shock dyno results from when new or refreshed.

 

[Porter]

Another component to this balance of performance, flexibility, and price -- is longevity. Even if you spend $10K for a set of 3 way dampers with low hysteresis and all the bells and whistles -- those low hysteresis performance dampers do so by using the lowest possible drag seals for the valve which decreases maintenance interval time/use.

Absolutely!! Nothing like needing a rebuild every 5k-10k miles.

 

[VL3X]

Absolutely on the money, those OEM quality dampers last a really long time but have moderate performance when pushed (repeatable damping characteristics throughout temperature range). On the other hand an Ohlins TTX damper after one year of street use or one season of track use have wildly different shock dyno results from when new or refreshed.

Yep.. I mean, there is a tradeoff... Something like KW V3s offer adjustable height and dampening (including rebound) and can really be great for an aggressive stance while also offering comfortable ride quality and enhanced handling, but it comes at a price and will require revalving/rebuilding every ~20k or so depending on how hard you drive on them and overall conditions. Plus they cost ~$3k+.

Eibach and Bilsteins will run you around $800 and last forever (well maybe not forever), but you won't get height or dampening adjustability.

It all depends on how you intend to use the car I guess. If it's garaged most of the year and only comes out for track days and the occasional weekend cruise, then coilovers may be the way to go. If you plan to drive your car often and in rain/snow sometimes AND cost is a factor, I'd go the less expensive route. But that's just me.

 

[Evotion]

Well, still haven't got my video out. I have driven both suspensions now. Both on the same tyres. Touring was not run in.

I concentrated on these:

1. Slow manoeuvring over bumps, cracks, drains, potholes, etc.
2. Tighter slower bends
3. Sweeping bends
4. Dual carriageway/motorway

1. The Touring was noticeably better to me. The main win for Touring. This is at <5mph sort of stuff.
2. This was almost equal with Sports winning when entry was faster. No difference coming out.
3. Sports was noticeably better. Touring had a feeling of being light on the front, just not quite as confidence inspiring.
4. This was interesting. Sports felt more interesting, comfort felt more floaty. ON fast straight roads I have no idea what a person might prefer.

Overall, I found the Sports set-up the winner with it's better front-end and connection with the road.

2 caveats here:

Firstly, I am getting Sports and that may sway my thought process - though I did feel it was pretty clear
Secondly, This is a 5 - 15% sort of stuff and biased towards sporty driving. If you are a buyer of an Emira then you may actually after ultimate comfort which makes the touring more obvious a choice.

 

[Lotus64]

Initially, I was adamant on tour, but after test driving the sports I could not be more confused! During the drive, I thought sports was perfect. Firm, sharp, yet fairly complaint, although every surface imperfection was felt through the chassis. But without having driven the touring, I can't help but think that it would still be amazing even with 10% less firmness while offering other benefits of its own. There's tons of pros to both setups.

Tour:
Less $$
Delivers extraordinary grip (1g)
More ability to steer with throttle
More accessible limits
Better bump absorption
Less prone to rattles

Sport:
More communication through the steering / chassis
Experience more road texture
Higher limits at the track
More special / racier
Lower ride height lol
More street cred
Why wouldn't you get the sportier Lotus?

Honestly, tour sounds more logical to me however I'm not a logical person... So I should probably get sports?

 

[kitkat]

@Lotus64 They cost the same and ride height is basically the same. I’m also not sure why touring would have more ability to steer with throttle — are you assuming less traction because you’re assuming it has to come with cup2s? That isn’t the case either, plenty are opting for sport suspension without the cup2s.

 

[Lotus64]

@Lotus64 They cost the same and ride height is basically the same. I’m also not sure why touring would have more ability to steer with throttle — are you assuming less traction because you’re assuming it has to come with cup2s? That isn’t the case either, plenty are opting for sport suspension without the cup2s.

1. Have to option the drivers pack to get the sport suspension. Touring is available for less $
2. No comment on ride height
3. The touring's cornering limits are lower because it's more softly sprung. That softness means it will reach the limit faster than the sport given the same throttle application. Car and driver is not gospel but their driving impressions are typically spot on. From their drive of the Emira Sport...

"While the softer-sprung Emira prototype was a compelling companion on the track, the production car's combination of firmer spring rates and massive grip made it almost feel over-tired on the road. There's a huge amount of stick available, and although it would be hard to grow tired of the Emira's reassuring front-end bite, its chassis lacks some of the playfulness that comes from being able to adjust its attitude with the accelerator; cornering lines can be opened or tightened with the right pedal, just not as prominently as with the softer Tour suspension."

 

[Pegasi]

Honestly, tour sounds more logical to me however I'm not a logical person... So I should probably get sports?

Not a DD + Decent Roads = Sports

Also, as we all know suspension setups are designed to maximize traction. The Sports setup up is specifically designed to maximize the Cups. So if you plan on any summer spirited, track driving, Sports plus Cups will theoretically give the most extreme handling version of the car. Whatever that means! After my test drive, on newly paved roads, the Sports suspension seemed to float over the road. I was expecting it to feel more harsh but it didn't. This is my rationale to choose Sports.

 

[Lotus64]

Not a DD + Decent Roads = Sports

Also, as we all know suspension setups are designed to maximize traction. The Sports setup up is specifically designed to maximize the Cups. So if you plan on any summer spirited, track driving, Sports plus Cups will theoretically give the most extreme handling version of the car. Whatever that means! After my test drive, on newly paved roads, the Sports suspension seemed to float over the road. I was expecting it to feel more harsh but it didn't. This is my rationale to choose Sports.

I agree with you. A caveat is that I will likely switch the cup 2s for an alternative once they wear out. Roads are also terrible in my parts. But I am leaning towards the most extreme handling version from the factory. And as with you, it will be driven often but not exactly daily driver so sports does seem like the answer.

 

[Pegasi]

From all I have read and seen I believe Lotus is among the best in the world at weight transfer. When I tracked the Evora GT the weight transfer was so predictable and smooth. That combined with the grip made the car very special to drive. And to Lotus64's point, it would be great to drive a Touring to see how it handles weight transfer too. Sublime I am sure.

Here is a great article about suspension for all you car nerds. WARNING, this is a long article and not a sound bite. If you can make it to the point where it talks about weight transfer you can correlate that with statements Gavan has made about the Emira design.

Getting a Grip - Examining the elements of tire traction - NASA Speed News Magazine

Tires get more conversation than probably any other item on a racecar, yet they are largely misunderstood. Everyone has theories about how to use tires to go faster, but for any given set of circumstances, a set of tires can only make so much traction. The goal of the astute racer should be to...

nasaspeed.news

 

[lion shf]

My thought is the sport dampers will perform better with the lowering springs I’ll most probably install. I can only look at wheel gap for so long before I get angry

 

[VL3X]

I can only look at wheel gap for so long before I get angry

you really are a true VAG man

 

[TomE]

From all I have read and seen I believe Lotus is among the best in the world at weight transfer. When I tracked the Evora GT the weight transfer was so predictable and smooth. That combined with the grip made the car very special to drive. And to Lotus64's point, it would be great to drive a Touring to see how it handles weight transfer too. Sublime I am sure.

Here is a great article about suspension for all you car nerds. WARNING, this is a long article and not a sound bite. If you can make it to the point where it talks about weight transfer you can correlate that with statements Gavan has made about the Emira design.

Getting a Grip - Examining the elements of tire traction - NASA Speed News Magazine

Tires get more conversation than probably any other item on a racecar, yet they are largely misunderstood. Everyone has theories about how to use tires to go faster, but for any given set of circumstances, a set of tires can only make so much traction. The goal of the astute racer should be to...

nasaspeed.news

Interesting article, thanks for posting.

I just read this, which someone posted on another Lotus group, about the pros and cons of double wishbone versus MacPherson strut suspension:

Why Is Double-Wishbone Suspension the Best?

There are reasons why it's seen as an ideal, but you shouldn't dismiss MacPherson struts.

www.roadandtrack.com

This also highlights some of the key compromises Lotus have to pass on to customers by pursuing double wishbone, most notably the amount of inboard space taken up and hence the lack of space for a frunk.

 

[SteveB]

Sports vs touring has been debated for months now and I thought I was decided but now questioning this again!

Having undertaken test drives of both sport and touring Emiras (both with Goodyear F1s) I came to the conclusion I could live with either. They both have their strengths and weaknesses: sport - really feel the road surface and firm, positive turn-in, but possibly (allegedly) a bit too firm and a tendency to fidget/skip on tight bumpy corners; touring - very compliant and flows over the road regardless of surface conditions, but possibly a bit too floaty/disconnected on flat, smooth roads. Lotus advice is if for mostly road use then go with touring. As I don’t intend to track my Emira my head was telling me touring would be the best choice for me, supported by Harry’s switch to touring after trying both. I was happy with this decision - until this week.

Just as I was thinking through my selection one last time (email from Lotus this week saying I now need to lock in my selection) I made the big mistake of looking at Evotions video of his thoughts after driving his new Emira with sport suspension and F1s which has made me question my suspension choice all over again!

Rewatching Harry’s video I noticed the sport suspension car he drove was fitted with Cup2s whereas the touring car had F1s. The sports configuration has (slightly) stiffer springs, stiffer dampers and different steering geo giving a feeling of greater turn-in sharpness and firmness. Nothing unexpected here. But what difference does a switch from Cup2 to F1 tyres make on ordinary UK roads? The Michelin Cup2s are intended for track use (with greater loadings and temps) and the rubber compound and tyre construction has been developed with this use in mind. However I’m wondering if Cup2s have stiffer side-walls and are less compliant on rough surfaces/normal roads at normal road speeds - reducing the contact patch and giving rise to the fidgety sensation some have reported? Certainly Cup2s are not recommended for cold/damp conditions. If this is the case and the Goodyear F1 tyres give better grip on dry but rough/undulating surfaces then, for me, the pendulum swings in the direction of sports suspension. Wasn’t possible to test the limits of F1 tyres on the Emira roads tests but can’t say I noticed any tyre issues with either suspension set ups (including fidgeting/skipping).

Any incite very welcome - otherwise I am flipping a coin!

 

[lion shf]

For me it’s which dampers will work best with lowering springs, and that’s sport. Maybe.……

 

[Pugwash]

I think you have already answered your own question. For full transparency I have touring but each must make their own decision. You have driven both and seen the miles Harry has put on his. Ade has been full of evangelistic zeal for sports since he made his selection and can’t understand why anyone would not choose the same as him, but it’s your car and you have to be happy with it. I have previously posted that I suspect there will be those who chose “sports cos it’s a sports car” but may be quietly regretting it once they spend some time in it.
The advice from Lotus is good.

 

[Balboa]

I think you have already answered your own question. For full transparency I have touring but each must make their own decision. You have driven both and seen the miles Harry has put on his. Ade has been full of evangelistic zeal for sports since he made his selection and can’t understand why anyone would not choose the same as him, but it’s your car and you have to be happy with it. I have previously posted that I suspect there will be those who chose “sports cos it’s a sports car” but may be quietly regretting it once they spend some time in it.
The advice from Lotus is good.

So you're happy w your choice of Touring I take it? Ive never had a Lotus. Testdrove Emira w Sport and thought it was livable but i suspect may be too jarring on crappy roads in my town. That being said I always drive my F-Type in Sport mode which is stiffest setting. If Touring is equivalent to Jag Sports Mode (which i suspect it may) I'll be happy. Jag not in Sports Mode is a little too loose

 

[Superman]

Regarding the tyres, I have both on my RX-8 (different car to the Emira, in different sizes, obviously, but is a direct comparison of the two tyres)... On the road there is very little difference in comfort/harshness between the two, so doubt most people would be able to tell much, if any, difference in those aspects (lateral grip and cold / wet weather handling is a different story though).

I do not agree with the 'sports suspension for a sports car' argument... Both setups on the Emira are 'Sports' setups!... You can choose between somewhat more compliant, or somewhat harder/harsher.

Stiffer does not always equate to better, it depends what you are after. And it is not just the spring rates, as the damper rates can make a huge difference (more so than the springs when dealing with uneven road surfaces, in fact).

Also, as a thought, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the 'Tour' setup was actually faster around somewhere like the Nurburgring, a track that is more similar to some road surfaces than many tracks (would be super interesting to see a real life comparison though).

 

[Rainier]

Can anyone compare the Emira suspension options vs an older Elise with Touring Suspension and Advan AD 07 LTS tires ?

(I have not had the privilege of an Emira test drive.)