Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[Porter]

The Emira that I test drove was on Sports and Goodyears. It was softer over bridge seams than my friend's Cadillac CTS-V which I drove 30 minutes later over the same exact bridge seam.

In no world would I qualify the sports setup as an exceptionally stiff suspension. It was literally softer than my BMW 3 series on the harder setting of the M Adaptive dampers I have on that car.

 

[lion shf]

Regarding the tyres, I have both on my RX-8 (different car to the Emira, in different sizes, obviously, but is a direct comparison of the two tyres)... On the road there is very little difference in comfort/harshness between the two, so doubt most people would be able to tell much, if any, difference in those aspects (lateral grip and cold / wet weather handling is a different story though).

I do not agree with the 'sports suspension for a sports car' argument... Both setups on the Emira are 'Sports' setups!... You can choose between somewhat more compliant, or somewhat harder/harsher.

Stiffer does not always equate to better, it depends what you are after. And it is not just the spring rates, as the damper rates can make a huge difference (more so than the springs when dealing with uneven road surfaces, in fact).

Also, as a thought, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the 'Tour' setup was actually faster around somewhere like the Nurburgring, a track that is more similar to some road surfaces than many tracks (would be super interesting to see a real life comparison though).

You say stiffer doesn’t equate to better but I’d argue it’s better than TOO soft. I think if we could be sure touring wasn’t too soft, we’d take it, but imo too soft on a sports car is WAY worse than too stiff
too soft (from my world):

 

[TomE]

What type of roads will you be driving on and what quality are they? Will you be doing long distance touring or daily driving or short weekend brisk drives or a mix? How much of the year will you be driving in cold or wet conditions?

These factors and the advice from Lotus will give you strong pointers to the answer.

Comparing to the suspension on other marques isn’t always helpful, as many design their sports setup with more stiffness in the suspension whereas Lotus engineer stiffness into the chassis and can achieve the handling dynamics with less suspension stiffness and more compliance. That’s partly why it’s a tricky choice, as both options are good on the road and a lot is down to personal preference on how you like a car to handle.

Don’t be too swayed by one opinion or one video. Ade and I have talked many times about suspension and I disagree with him saying Sports is the best option - horses for courses and for many people on UK roads and a mix of usage the Touring is more suited. Touring is in no way a soft or wallowy option. Many of the factory development drivers have Touring on their personal cars.

In my opinion the Cup2s aren’t an all year tyre in the UK, so if you get them you need a second tyre for winter (could be Goodyears or any other all season rather than a winter tyre). The Cup2s do contribute to the tighter dynamics and the more direct steering feedback, but one person’s direct feedback is another person’s twitchy and fidgety on uneven surfaces.

There’s probably less than 10% difference between Sports/Cup2s and Touring/Goodyears and maybe 5% if it’s Sports/Goodyears.

 

[Pugwash]

So you're happy w your choice of Touring I take it? Ive never had a Lotus. Testdrove Emira w Sport and thought it was livable but i suspect may be too jarring on crappy roads in my town. That being said I always drive my F-Type in Sport mode which is stiffest setting. If Touring is equivalent to Jag Sports Mode (which i suspect it may) I'll be happy. Jag not in Sports Mode is a little too loose

Yes I am very happy with my choice of Touring. I drove both suspension set ups when test drives were available to compare the two. I am no suspension expert but I currently have three other Lotus, have owned others and I built and tracked a Caterham, which was pretty stiff for a road car. So I do know a bit about how a sports car should feel. Have previously run Aston, Audi RS4, fast BMW etc. For my daily I run a Jaguar FPace SVR which has 30% stiffer springs than a standard FPace and I sometimes run that in Sports mode and sometimes in Road mode depending on the road and who else is in the car. So I chose my Emira suspension set up for what I wanted to use it for. I have only once test driven a car that I thought I cannot live with this as a road car (Subaru Impreza Turbo STI Special Edition, lm looking at you!)

 

[Superman]

You say stiffer doesn’t equate to better but I’d argue it’s better than TOO soft. I think if we could be sure touring wasn’t too soft, we’d take it, but imo too soft on a sports car is WAY worse than too stiff

You missed an important word, I said "stiffer does not ALWAYS equate to better"... I was trying to invoke some thinking and challenge the thought process that some people have that stiffer suspension is ALWAYS better than softer suspension... which it is not.

I have driven the Emira Touring suspension on a test drive, and in my humble opinion it is pretty much bang on what I personally would want from a sports car on UK roads.

As for your last statement:

too soft on a sports car is WAY worse than too stiff

.. You are absolutely entitled to, and I respect, that opinion, but I personally disagree. Let me explain why... I have had cars with suspension that is 'too stiff' for the road and they are just no fun to drive on the road to me (a couple with adjustable dampers where the hardest setting is just unusable on normal roads). I would even argue that much too much stiffness on the road is a negative, causing banging, jittering and jumping that could actually, in extreme cases, be dangerous on the public road when pushing-on, or fast mid-corner, where a softer set-up could actually be more stable, and perhaps counter-intuitively for some, actually quicker to cover distance in. So, yes, whilst I understand why some might argue that 'too soft' could sap some of the fun out of the driving experience, for me, I would take that over too hard any day. But that is somewhat off topic perhaps, as that is talking about extremes, and let's be honest, the difference between the two setups on the Emira are nowhere near any end of those extremes.

I am going with Touring setup. You may want Sports. Both, IMO, would be valid choices, depending on your most important criteria... But please, everybody, make your choice for the right reasons, not just because of the naming conventions that the Lotus marketing team chose to go with.

 

[SteveB]

What type of roads will you be driving on and what quality are they? Will you be doing long distance touring or daily driving or short weekend brisk drives or a mix? How much of the year will you be driving in cold or wet conditions?

These factors and the advice from Lotus will give you strong pointers to the answer.

Comparing to the suspension on other marques isn’t always helpful, as many design their sports setup with more stiffness in the suspension whereas Lotus engineer stiffness into the chassis and can achieve the handling dynamics with less suspension stiffness and more compliance. That’s partly why it’s a tricky choice, as both options are good on the road and a lot is down to personal preference on how you like a car to handle.

Don’t be too swayed by one opinion or one video. Ade and I have talked many times about suspension and I disagree with him saying Sports is the best option - horses for courses and for many people on UK roads and a mix of usage the Touring is more suited. Touring is in no way a soft or wallowy option. Many of the factory development drivers have Touring on their personal cars.

In my opinion the Cup2s aren’t an all year tyre in the UK, so if you get them you need a second tyre for winter (could be Goodyears or any other all season rather than a winter tyre). The Cup2s do contribute to the tighter dynamics and the more direct steering feedback, but one person’s direct feedback is another person’s twitchy and fidgety on uneven surfaces.

There’s probably less than 10% difference between Sports/Cup2s and Touring/Goodyears and maybe 5% if it’s Sports/Goodyears.

Thanks Tom for the response. My Emira is going to be mostly a weekend fun car. I have a 4 series as a daily drive which I often drive in sport mode, especially on dual carriageways/motorways as find this gives a better feel and more responsive. On potholed B roads I normally use comfort mode as too harsh in sport mode. Soon after buying new I swapped the standard BMW springs for ACS springs to stop it tramlining ( I hated the vague, mind of its own, feeling of the standard BMW springs). My wife has a Mini as a daily drive. As we live in East Anglia any weekend trip to somewhere with interesting (hilly) roads is going to involve driving on A roads and motorways, so a mix of road types. I’m definitely going for F1 tyres not Cup2s.

As mentioned in my post above, I don’t intend to track my Emira. This is not because I have no sense of adventure and just want a comfortable A - B car, but because (big admission coming) I have raced Superkarts for the last 20 years including over 15 years in the British Superkart Championship and have raced on most UK long circuits many times. No sports car (or super car) is ever going to come close to a Superkart around circuits such as Caldwell Park or Oulton Park and I have no intention of trying (not to mention the cost of potential repairs when pushed too far).

So what I’m looking for is an interesting sports car that’s fun to drive on ordinary roads, has good feel and road holding, even on motorways, but does not feel out of control on bumpy B roads and requiring a constant readiness to counter unexpected twitchiness/over steer/under steer.

Touring will be fine for me as long as it does not loose that sports car feel on A roads/motorways. Likewise sport will be OK for me as long as it doesn’t need constant corrections on B roads to counter unexpected excursions. Just wasn’t possible to really test these things on the test drives hence the interest in others views/experiences.

 

[nelly111s]

Some of this also depends on what you’re used to. I’m coming into an Emira from an Elise. Either sports or touring will be more compliant than that. I drove the Elise to the test drive, so I could drive on the same roads. The Emira with sports suspension is far less “bangy and crashy “ than the Elise.

 

[Evotion]

Ha, glad I helped

There is no right answer of course. Both are great.
Just that sport is more great.

The only real way is to take a 2 hour drive in both setups across all terrains.
It also depends what you have come from. I find the Sport suspension in the Emira less crashy and firm than in my C63 or Ferrari and therefore perfect as it retains excellent feel.
The Sport suspension is moderate. As it is a heavy car it does not dart about the road like an Exige 4XX - nothing like that at all.

I am starting to think the 'how you intend to drive it' is not correct either. We always end up using these cars in a lot more ways. You end up on dual carriageway or motorway.
Ah, bumbling about at low speed - I remember - is a point for the touring.

For me FEEL is the #1 factor and for that, one should choose Sport. I like to feel the steering wheel, steering and chassis more alive. I did not buy the car to cruise in (where ironically it also feels better than touring).

I also thought the car was generally better into, through and out of all bends and the real proof in the pudding was hitting a hole on a bend at speed and the car felt it but I was not directed off course (though it made me wince).

I bet Harry is regretting his choice. Never drives it.

Lastly, I do suspect that the tyres made a big difference.

Sports with Goodyear F1 tyres was always going to be my choice and I knew they were the better road tyre. Perhaps that is why Touring felt a bit soft and Sports felt just right, for me.

I am always happy to help. I love going for a drive down to Bell & Colvill and am also happy to let others have a quick go in mine and then compare it to B&C's Touring demo.
We are all individual and feel things differently. I take the mick about the choice of Touring occasionally but we are talking small percentages and both are fantastic on this amazing car.

 

[lion shf]

You missed an important word, I said "stiffer does not ALWAYS equate to better"... I was trying to invoke some thinking and challenge the thought process that some people have that stiffer suspension is ALWAYS better than softer suspension... which it is not.

I have driven the Emira Touring suspension on a test drive, and in my humble opinion it is pretty much bang on what I personally would want from a sports car on UK roads.

As for your last statement:

.. You are absolutely entitled to, and I respect, that opinion, but I personally disagree. Let me explain why... I have had cars with suspension that is 'too stiff' for the road and they are just no fun to drive on the road to me (a couple with adjustable dampers where the hardest setting is just unusable on normal roads). I would even argue that much too much stiffness on the road is a negative, causing banging, jittering and jumping that could actually, in extreme cases, be dangerous on the public road when pushing-on, or fast mid-corner, where a softer set-up could actually be more stable, and perhaps counter-intuitively for some, actually quicker to cover distance in. So, yes, whilst I understand why some might argue that 'too soft' could sap some of the fun out of the driving experience, for me, I would take that over too hard any day. But that is somewhat off topic perhaps, as that is talking about extremes, and let's be honest, the difference between the two setups on the Emira are nowhere near any end of those extremes.

I am going with Touring setup. You may want Sports. Both, IMO, would be valid choices, depending on your most important criteria... But please, everybody, make your choice for the right reasons, not just because of the naming conventions that the Lotus marketing team chose to go with.

All good points, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I won’t pick a suspension until I drive a sport (drove a touring, which I loved but hated the wheel gap) but I’m def leaning sport with aftermarket lowering springs.

 

[Silver Storm]

All good points, I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I won’t pick a suspension until I drive a sport (drove a touring, which I loved but hated the wheel gap) but I’m def leaning sport with aftermarket lowering springs.

Definitely agree with you on lowering the Emira, I have wheel gap phobia. .

Depending on how finances are looking after I take delivery, I plan to get Ohlins TTX coilovers and new shoes (BBS or HRE or ?)

 

[ND2021]

You say stiffer doesn’t equate to better but I’d argue it’s better than TOO soft. I think if we could be sure touring wasn’t too soft, we’d take it, but imo too soft on a sports car is WAY worse than too stiff
too soft (from my world):

Do you think the Miata is closer to the Sport or touring Emira option? Assume the picture is a club version?

 

[SPoivre]

In my opinion the Cup2s aren’t an all year tyre in the UK, so if you get them you need a second tyre for winter (could be Goodyears or any other all season rather than a winter tyre).

AFAIK, the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersports on the car are high performance summer tires, not all-season performance tires. Not as track oriented as the cup2s but still summer tires.

 

[VL3X]

AFAIK, the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersports on the car are high performance summer tires, not all-season performance tires. Not as track oriented as the cup2s but still summer tires.

Correct - F1 SuperSports are Z-rated Max Performance Summer tires.

 

[lion shf]

Do you think the Miata is closer to the Sport or touring Emira option? Assume the picture is a club version?

‘that’s prob not a club in the pic. I’m guessing Emira touring is way stiffer than the stock Miata

Why the MX-5's soft suspension doesn't matter, and what's missing in the power debate | Practical Motoring

The MX-5's soft suspension makes for a lot of body roll in corners. Some people say this is a bad thing, but those people are wrong.

practicalmotoring.com.au

 

[robrmon]

Correct - F1 SuperSports are Z-rated Max Performance Summer tires.

Does anyone have a temperature rating to hand? Ie don’t use below X

 

[KAR120C]

Does anyone have a temperature rating to hand? Ie don’t use below X

You’ll risk cracking the shoulders if you drive below freezing. You’ll lose a lot of grip below 45f. There is slight temperature variation across different summer tires but thats a solid rule of thumb.

 

[SteveB]

After much agonising over suspension choice I spoke with a good friend from the motorsports/superkarting world (who has owned an Evora S and an Evora 400 and has driven an Evora 410 Sport) to gain his perspective. After discussing this issue for some time he gave me some very wise advice (a question actually): given the potential downsides of the 2 suspension options (too fidgety for sports suspension on poorly surfaced B roads and too floaty/disconnected for touring on A roads/motorways), which would I be most disappointed with?

With this in mind I have now locked in my choice: V6 manual, Nimbus, Black pack, Black wheels & Calipers, Black Alcantara with yellow stitching, Goodyear tyres and ........ sports suspension!

 

[frazzer]

Does anyone have a temperature rating to hand? Ie don’t use below X

I have an Mx-5 (Miata) 30th AE on Eibach springs. It can be harsh on a bad British B road, tolerable but certainly not soft. However it does roll into a corner, not as much as the stock Mx-5, but it's there. So I think that harsh edge is more about its lightness and the initial travel of the spring as the spring setup. Which suggests that comparing suspension in cars of vastly different weights (Emira is about 40% more) just doesn't work.

But I'm no suspension expert, I can barely set up the Fox forks on my mountain bike to feel right

 

[SPoivre]

I drove the touring on the highway and there was nothing “floaty” about it…and I like my cars in the stiff side. I went with the sports but you’re going to have to get a different metric to decide your preference, LOL. Back to the hand wringing…

 

[Porter]

I suspect on roads that are properly engineered and constructed to modern (postwar) standards, even with occasionally poor pavement condition, the Sports will be fine.

The thing that some areas of the UK unfortunately have to contend with is antique road construction. Some B roads have dips and heaves at random due to deterioration of the road bed, or simply due to a lack of effective grading when the road was constructed.

I don't say that as any real criticism, I love driving on British B roads. But they aren't exactly consistent or structurally smooth.

I'm just saying, I get why some folks in the UK would strongly prefer the Tour suspension if they live adjacent to roads that bounce you around a lot.

I chose Sports, because where I live (Virginia) even the remote mountain roads are pretty well graded and are typically re-planed for flatness every time they pave. It's a great environment for a sports car, as long as it isn't too stiff to soak up smaller bumps and impacts. My test drive in the Sports was reassuring on that front, I think it will be ideal on our roads.