Suspension: Touring and Sports options

[kitkat]

He also mentions that the front wheels are toed out in the sport setup- that will make the front end very darty and reduce self-centering. I would set my car up like that for autocross. No mention if touring has the toe out up front.

I could easily see the car being setup with a touring alignment vs a sports alignment from factory.

If I were doing that I'd do:
- Touring would be zero to a hint of front toe-in up front and moderate in the rear and minimal camber.
- Sports would be a hint of toe-out up front, a healthy amount of rear toe-in -- more camber -- and possibly more caster if they provide factory shims for that.

 

[Leonard]

Seeing the 'yaw' on the Touring cars I'd still be suprised if the Sports chassis didn't have uprated anti roll bars as well as increased damper rate

 

[TomE]

ARB setup is different between the two, geo is different too. It’s not just the spring and damper rate differences.

 

[Leonard]

ARB setup is different between the two, geo is different too. It’s not just the spring and damper rate differences.

That's good to know. But why isn't it mentioned....
Would have made my decision a lot easier from the off

 

[TomE]

That's good to know. But why isn't it mentioned....
Would have made my decision a lot easier from the off

It was in my original multi-post info under “technical stuff”:

https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/suspension-touring-and-sports-options.850/post-16939

 

[dgrace]

So are we thinking that the alignment settings are different for Sport vs Tour? Or for Cup2 vs Goodyear?

 

[Leonard]

It was in my original multi-post info under “technical stuff”:

https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/suspension-touring-and-sports-options.850/post-16939

I think it only mentions set up rather than upgraded. It was a quality post so not nit picking Just would have expected all the detailed differences to be on the configurator #forthedrivers

 

[DrD]

So are we thinking that the alignment settings are different for Sport vs Tour? Or for Cup2 vs Goodyear?

I suspect the answer is sports Vs tour, but I have nothing to base that off.

The reviews mentioned a "bespoke geometry for the cup2", maybe they meant purely through having the sports suspension?

2 geometry set ups definitely make sense, and it makes even more sense for the two to be the ones that have different mechanical characteristics already. I.e. ARB, damping, spring rates.

3 geo/ alignment set ups including one specifically for sports with Goodyears probably seems over engineered. But then this is lotus, this is what they care about....

 

[TomE]

So are we thinking that the alignment settings are different for Sport vs Tour? Or for Cup2 vs Goodyear?

I just posted on another thread about this:

https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/reviews-opinions-and-emotions.1446/post-33938

My understanding is there are two geo setups which are linked to suspension choice rather than tyre choice.

But that doesn’t stop you applying a different geo if you do Touring/Cups or Sports/Goodyear.

 

[dgrace]

I just posted on another thread about this:

https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/reviews-opinions-and-emotions.1446/post-33938

My understanding is there are two geo setups which are linked to suspension choice rather than tyre choice.

But that doesn’t stop you applying a different geo if you do Touring/Cups or Sports/Goodyear.

Thanks Tom - basically I'm wondering if Sports/Goodyear will come with a bit of negative camber and toe out in front relative to Tour/Goodyear.

 

[kitkat]

Thanks Tom - basically I'm wondering if Sports/Goodyear will come with a bit of negative camber and toe out in front relative to Tour/Goodyear.

If indeed Lotus is providing a different alignment based on either suspension or tire or a combination of both -- we won't be able to figure this out until they release the service manuals likely.

Those will specify optimum and tolerance ranges for each setting and suspension choice.

 

[Eagle7]

If indeed Lotus is providing a different alignment based on either suspension or tire or a combination of both -- we won't be able to figure this out until they release the service manuals likely.

Those will specify optimum and tolerance ranges for each setting and suspension choice.

This would also affect the reviews; especially if the reviewers don't know this, and don't realize which setup they're reviewing.

 

[TomE]

You'd hope Lotus would provide each press car with the correct setups for the given suspension and tyre fitments. But they've got that wrong in the past. Each reviewer does seem well-briefed on which suspension and tyres their car has got and the other available options.

Giving Evo an Emira with Sports + Goodyear for a track test against a GT4 seems unwise. But I gather Evo asked for a car for a road trip review and requested the Sports setup, so Lotus sensibly gave them Sports + Goodyear. Then Evo took it to Anglesey, and happened to have a GT4 there at the same time...

 

[frazzer]

Touring with diff is being reported to have quite a lot of understeer - I wonder if this is deliberate to get a safer drive

 

[SteveB]

Thanks Tom - basically I'm wondering if Sports/Goodyear will come with a bit of negative camber and toe out in front relative to Tour/Goodyear.

I suspect the differences in steering geometry (sport vs touring) are mostly linked to intended use (though differences in side wall stiffness and spring rates can require changes to camber settings). More toe-out increases the amount of scrub which assists initial turn in and generates heat in the tyre compound. This can be helpful on track, particularly on damp days. Likewise increasing -ve camber can improve the tyre contact patch for tight/high g corners (giving more cornering grip) but at the expense of uneven tyre wear when driving in a straight line. So steering adjustments to give more grip on track are likely to result in increased tyre wear. Not so much of a problem for track use but definitely an issue for everyday driving (sport vs touring).

 

[DrD]

For those that are worried about understeer:
I used to have quite poor understeer on my Cayman s and even more so on my 911 GTS. It was resolved by super conscientious trail braking and really managing the 911s weight through a corner, but it wasn't a point and squirt kind of car.

I took it to (not affiliated) a place called centre gravity in atherstone, a suspension specialist who are world renowned for their alignments (and more major suspension changes if you want them). They changed the toe and camber of the 4 wheels, kept it all within Porsches spec, but it absolutely transformed the car.

More feel, more front end grip. I could absolutely plough into roundabouts at inappropriate speeds and the front end would be glued. Porsche have the toe very square from the factory, these guys put a little toe in (and some adjustments to camber) so the car is "pinching" the ground. The only caveat being that you marginally increase tyre wear, especially on the inside of your tread, and the car will find camber in the road more. Honestly though - in my opinion, worth the frankly expensive cost for an alignment, worth the 5% less tyre life too.

I've rambled, but basically don't worry about understeer - there are a lot of suspension specialists that can completely eradicate that, within lotus spec, with a couple of hours of work!
More importantly, I doubt most of us mere mortals would be pushing to the point of understeer on a road anyway.... Saying that, There is something fun about absolutely yeeting the car through a roundabout though....

 

[Evotion]

I listed to/read all the reviews so far and all of our previous assumptions seen correct:

Touring is best for most of us, especially those driving it more often.
Sports is best suited to those, like me, who will use the car on track and sparingly at weekends.

There is no right answer. Depends on the person and their expected use, though, like for like, back to back, the decision would be easier.

Indeed, those with the sports set-up still say it is the ultimate for feel and ability but it comes at a cost and, on the roads of the UK, might well be slower in most people's hands.

My problem:
I have ordered Sports with the Goodyears.
Why is this a problem?
Well, I did this as I believed it was the right compromise but now I realise the Goodyears will be crap on my track days so I will ALSO get some Cup2 tyres and change them over as and when I track it.

I wonder if Lotus can stick these in the car for me:
Two behind the seats, one on the front seat lodged under the window, and the last one in the boot with the lid tied up with string

 

[TomE]

In the past Lotus have usually had a little bit of understeer when the cars leave the factory. It’s slightly safer, especially for people coming from a FWD hot hatch who might be tempted to lift off the throttle if they feel they’re going into a corner too fast.

It’s easily dialled out if that’s what you want.

 

[Evotion]

It only takes a few spirited drives to get to understand the car.
I am not worried about it. Perhaps, I should be. I am running the car in down to the Nurburgring.

 

[jamesbxxx]

In the past Lotus have usually had a little bit of understeer when the cars leave the factory. It’s slightly safer, especially for people coming from a FWD hot hatch who might be tempted to lift off the throttle if they feel they’re going into a corner too fast.

It’s easily dialled out if that’s what you want.

Factory tour guide confirmed that they are all setup for understeer - to make it safer for most owners on the road. As you say, everything is adjustable (toe, castor, camber) to give you the character you prefer. I guarantee the EVO car could have been setup to their liking and dialled out all understeer. Do not panic!