Would you change from V6 to I4 if I4 had 400HP?

[Eagle7]

No manual = no purchase for me.

I'm buying this car purely for the analog and engaging driving experience. As childish as it sounds, spending near $100k on a car with 4-cylinders would just feel disappointing to me, regardless of the performance.

After listening to that V6 in Melbourne being revved, that's exactly what I want. With a manual. A few horsepower either way isn't nearly as important to me as the sound and experience. I'm buying mine for the exact same reasons you are, and I don't think that's childish at all.

 

[PaperLawyer]

Funnily enough, I have been all about the i4 from the very first announcements (AMG reputation with engines, modern marvel of technology getting these figures from a 2 litre road-going 4-pot, potential for easy power bump later on, truer to Lotus' roots with a smaller/lighter engine, etc etc... you know the excuses reasoning ) ... but the longer I have to wait, the more doubt is creeping in

I do have to agree that the exhaust note is the lingering doubt that gnaws at my brain.

I was very much of the same mind but the gnawing doubt got to me...

 

[digilotus]

After listening to that V6 in Melbourne being revved, that's exactly what I want. With a manual. A few horsepower either way isn't nearly as important to me as the sound and experience. I'm buying mine for the exact same reasons you are, and I don't think that's childish at all.

And that wasn’t the production exhaust which I’m told will be even louder!

 

[PaulP]

And that wasn’t the production exhaust which I’m told will be even louder!

But it was in a brick lined alleyway. Singing in the shower so to speak.

 

[Speedluvver]

This is me completely..... but I do remember it is going to be cheaper to run - tax, mpg etc which means more road trips and use for me. Also, when I am in a traffic jam, I will be reminding myself why a DCT is a good thing

To add… when I drove both the v6 exige and the Evora 410, that manual gearbox spoilt it for me a bit, and took some of the soul away… so that has also helped me not focus on just the noise….

 

[eclat2emira]

After listening to that V6 in Melbourne being revved, that's exactly what I want. With a manual. A few horsepower either way isn't nearly as important to me as the sound and experience. I'm buying mine for the exact same reasons you are, and I don't think that's childish at all.



















































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































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I agree with you in two different ways @Eagle

After listening to that V6 in Melbourne being revved, that's exactly what I want. With a manual. A few horsepower either way isn't nearly as important to me as the sound and experience. I'm buying mine for the exact same reasons you are, and I don't think that's childish at all.

I'm with @Eagle7 in two ways:

1. I don't think it's childish at all.
2. I don't care if it's childish, even if it is, we should all be more childish and give in to our inner child more often! Growing up is highly over-rated - Peter Pan had it right.

 

[Eagle7]

But it was in a brick lined alleyway. Singing in the shower so to speak.

I realize that, but the volume wasn't my focus. I actually don't want an overly loud exhaust. It was the tone that I liked.

 

[emiraspain]

I disagree that they are not competing in anyway..... 99.999999% of buyers will get one or the other, when they could afford either one, so in some way they absolutely compete with each other. We are all making a choice between them, no matter how quick it was and so it is a case of competing. This is not like apples and oranges, rice and pasta. Its more dry dog food or wet food.... you can decide which is which.
I also feel that the only reason the AMG engine is there is simply to be able to provide an "affordable" car in certain markets, where engine size or emissions are huge % factors in the total price due to registration taxes. Lets face it, they aren't really going to build a long term relationship with AMG as you can only imagine that in 5 years they wont be making this car any more.... although that is far from certain I guess and maybe they will continue worjing with AMG on electric cars at some point?

It is the last petrol car they build, but its not clear until when they will continue to develop it..... If all their other cars are electric, which they will be, then its possible they will continue iterating this car for 5-10 or more years, although you would think the sales numbers after 5 years, with people actually wanting electric cars as they will be much faster and cheaper to run, will be too low to further develop this car.

I had a 718 S, 350/60 HP from a 4 cyl engine, from which porsche could get 400 (GTS got 375/380 and they underreport their numbers where as UK companies tend to do the opposite). The reason I sold it was it was not a manual and it did not sound great, oh and also, it was if anything so good as to be boring...even 35 mpg was easily available. More boot space than the Lotus and a convertible to boot..... it was a very good car.
So for me, assuming the AMG unit will sound good, it cant sound as good as a v6, they never have and never will. I would feel a bit like being in a nitrous powered honda civic compared to being in a real muscle car. It may go faster, but it just feels .... well it feels like the cheaper and younger option.... true in both cases I think.
Lotus go with the Toyota as its what they know and the price they pay for this engine has to be pretty low by now, as its not the same engine Toyota use themselves I guess, not in their latest cars at least (correct me if I am wrong as Ariel use the civic type R engine, but they are always 3 odd years behind getting the latest version as its more development work and paperwork and finally cost, to use it). They went out to AMG as if they didn't, the car would not sell well outside the UK and Germany, where taxes for CO2 are no where near as high as they are in most other EU countries.... and as people have said, for china too....

 

[Schumacher]

The only reason I even considered the I4 is because it will basically just take a tune to get it over 500hp. With new turbos you can do over 600hp.

 

[PaperLawyer]

The only reason I even considered the I4 is because it will basically just take a tune to get it over 500hp. With new turbos you can do over 600hp.

Several board members have flagged the fact that mid engine temps may make achieving those big figures more problematic than in a front engined car. However, I am simply repeating what I have read as this is my (a) first mid engined car; and (b) my second turbo car after my 2002 golf gti mark 4 (which I sold after 12 months as it disappointed me).

 

[TomE]

I also feel that the only reason the AMG engine is there is simply to be able to provide an "affordable" car in certain markets, where engine size or emissions are huge % factors in the total price due to registration taxes. Lets face it, they aren't really going to build a long term relationship with AMG as you can only imagine that in 5 years they wont be making this car any more.... although that is far from certain I guess and maybe they will continue worjing with AMG on electric cars at some point?

It is the last petrol car they build, but its not clear until when they will continue to develop it..... If all their other cars are electric, which they will be, then its possible they will continue iterating this car for 5-10 or more years, although you would think the sales numbers after 5 years, with people actually wanting electric cars as they will be much faster and cheaper to run, will be too low to further develop this car.

Yes, the AMG engine is an option for exactly that reason - the emissions taxes on the V6 are eye-watering in many European countries and it's uneconomic to sell it in China. They already have a relationship with AMG, as the Chairman of Geely owns about 10% of DaimlerBenz.

The Emira probably has an 8 year model life. If the ban on selling petrol-engined cars comes into effect in the UK in 2030 as currently planned, then it's hard to see Lotus continuing to produce an ICE car they can't sell in their home market. They might, if there is enough demand from elsewhere.

But the Type 135 electric sportscar arrives in 2025 and will use the same Hethel production facility as the Emira. They may also build the Alpine version there too, so will need to switch capacity away from ICE to EV. The V6 will be killed off around then if the EU7 emissions regulations go ahead on time.

I expect we'll see a GT/S version of the Emira, plus possibly a V6 Final Edition. My hunch is we won't see loads of iterations like we saw with the Elise, Exige and Evora.

 

[Wolfram]

It is the last petrol car they build, but its not clear until when they will continue to develop it..... If all their other cars are electric, which they will be, then its possible they will continue iterating this car for 5-10 or more years, although you would think the sales numbers after 5 years, with people actually wanting electric cars as they will be much faster and cheaper to run, will be too low to further develop this car.

The UK government have banned the sale of ICE cars from 2030. I understand Emira production is planned to end in 2028, when it will be replaced by an all-electric lineup. So the Emira has five years from now (except we don't have any customer cars yet).

 

[emiraspain]

The UK government have banned the sale of ICE cars from 2030. I understand Emira production is planned to end in 2028, when it will be replaced by an all-electric lineup. So the Emira has five years from now (except we don't have any customer cars yet).

Agreed, but these things could change if synthetic fuels come into play, or engines are modified to take h2.... or who knows what could happen, something like diesel gate in reverse haha, but yes it would appear as we are coming to the end, so why not go out with a big bang...and noise... ie a V6.
Could they make a convertible version?
would they even try, for a car with a 7 year ish life cycle..... probably not. But yes will be many versions, a 420/30 HP V6 for sure..... a 400 AMG probably, but this is controlled by AMG themselves as much as by lotus I guess. Just as Mercedes control what interior system Aston martin use, they dont give them the latest... although hopefully that will change now they have part ownership as their interiors are awful..... the Lotus EV interior looks great... off on a tangent there

 

[Magicman]

After listening to that V6 in Melbourne being revved, that's exactly what I want. With a manual. A few horsepower either way isn't nearly as important to me as the sound and experience. I'm buying mine for the exact same reasons you are, and I don't think that's childish at all.

Can someone point me to this video pls

 

[digilotus]

Can someone point me to this video pls

Exhaust note - EDIT new upload

Sorry uploaded wrong part of the vid. Exhaust from the event in Melbourne yesterday. They were saying they were having a problem with starting it up in loud mode rather than Camry mode. Fuller revs at the end of the vid.

www.emiraforum.com

 

[Pegasi]

I disagree that they are not competing in anyway..... 99.999999% of buyers will get one or the other, when they could afford either one, so in some way they absolutely compete with each other. We are all making a choice between them, no matter how quick it was and so it is a case of competing. This is not like apples and oranges, rice and pasta. Its more dry dog food or wet food.... you can decide which is which.

Just in case emissions aren't the only reason Lotus isn't providing a 400HP in as many markets as possible (meaning speculation that a 400HP I4 would upstage the V6) I wanted to know who would switch if the HP is the same. Based on the poll it seems that they aren't competing because of what everyone pretty much confirms, it's not an engine choice but a transmission choice. Sound is a factor but not as signification as transmission.

 

[xen]

Just in case emissions aren't the only reason Lotus isn't providing a 400HP in as many markets as possible (meaning speculation that a 400HP I4 would upstage the V6) I wanted to know who would switch if the HP is the same. Based on the poll it seems that they aren't competing because of what everyone pretty much confirms, it's not an engine choice but a transmission choice. Sound is a factor but not as signification as transmission.

The issue I’ve always taken with this position is - if it is indeed a transmission choice then leave the I4 to be in its standard 400BHp tune.

The logical conclusion I came to to is that margins on the v6 are significantly higher than the i4 and as such they’re incentivising customers to buy them.

If Lotus did indeed release a 400bhp i4 (with a corresponding 480nm) at the same time as the V6 I think you’d find the majority of purchases would be the former.

 

[Eagle7]

The issue I’ve always taken with this position is - if it is indeed a transmission choice then leave the I4 to be in its standard 400BHp tune.

The logical conclusion I came to to is that margins on the v6 are significantly higher than the i4 and as such they’re incentivising customers to buy them.

If Lotus did indeed release a 400bhp i4 (with a corresponding 480nm) at the same time as the V6 I think you’d find the majority of purchases would be the former.

Look at the poll. That says otherwise in a big way. Even if the power was the same, I'd still get the V6 with the manual because I like the sound of the V6 and I want a manual.

 

[ADC]

The issue I’ve always taken with this position is - if it is indeed a transmission choice then leave the I4 to be in its standard 400BHp tune.

The logical conclusion I came to to is that margins on the v6 are significantly higher than the i4 and as such they’re incentivising customers to buy them.

If Lotus did indeed release a 400bhp i4 (with a corresponding 480nm) at the same time as the V6 I think you’d find the majority of purchases would be the former.

I approximately agree The V6 is clearly set up as the halo spec in markets where both are to be sold, but even if both engines had the same power output, I think that the i4 being the "majority of purchases" is overstating it... at least for early adopters. However, I would certainly feel less hard-done-by as an i4 purchaser if we could at least option the same tune China is getting, and I would presume there would be at least some small net positive gain in i4 customers if power was equal.

 

[xen]

Look at the poll. That says otherwise in a big way. Even if the power was the same, I'd still get the V6 with the manual because I like the sound of the V6 and I want a manual.

It’s a sample size of 71 on an enthusiast forum, hardly representative.

The i4 would be cheaper to buy, cheaper to run, more fuel efficient, lighter and quicker. That would appeal a lot more to the broader market than just transmission and sound. You also have to consider the roads in a lot of target markets aren’t just twisty B-roads.

The take-rate on manual versions of ‘enthusiast’ cars where we have a lot more data clearly shows a preference for automatics in the broader market. This is granted not a like for like as they have the engine in common but it’s a data point.

The proof though is in the pudding (this at least can’t be argued about) and Lotus decided to limit the i4 to ‘allow’ the v6 be the halo model. It implies it wouldn’t have been with the i4 at full pelt - which also suggests to me they consider speed and track times to be important as well.