Did lotus rob us on horsepower?

[Steve24]

Same. My 4.39 was with a draggy, on a cold day as stated above. I’m not stock thou with the 440 JUBU so will be interesting to see everyone’s best numbers. I will be going with the 460 JUBU probably late spring early summer so will do times on the 440 first then the 460.

I just did two runs with my dragy.

First one was just to try to get a handle on launch technique (I normally never launch aggressively as I hate thrashing my cars in 1st), and to see if I could actually do the run on what was a pretty short stretch of road.

Second run I tried a bit harder.
There was a laughable amount of wheel spin (so I definitely need to work on my technique) and a pretty ordinary 1st to 2nd gear-change, but even so I got 4.88 for the 0-60, or 4.63 with a 1ft rollout.

Bearing in mind that is the first time I’ve ever tried a “proper” launch in any of my cars and I only did two runs I’m happy enough with that.

I have no doubt that with a better driver on a better road the published figures would be achievable, but you’d probably have to thrash the car in a way that I don’t really like doing.

I’ll have another go in a few days on a better, longer road and see if I can reduce the wheel spin and improve my gear change.

My car is totally stock. Sport / Goodyears.
About half a tank of fuel and temp of 30C just now.

 

[Tomwa]

Do you have any idea how Draggy is calculating a 1ft roll out? This is normally done via the distance required to cross and leave a drag race "line" via an optical sensor.

Draggy is what...just doing some math with an accelerometer to get an approximation?

 

[FST]

I just did two runs with my dragy.

First one was just to try to get a handle on launch technique (I normally never launch aggressively as I hate thrashing my cars in 1st), and to see if I could actually do the run on what was a pretty short stretch of road.

Second run I tried a bit harder.
There was a laughable amount of wheel spin (so I definitely need to work on my technique) and a pretty ordinary 1st to 2nd gear-change, but even so I got 4.88 for the 0-60, or 4.63 with a 1ft rollout.

Bearing in mind that is the first time I’ve ever tried a “proper” launch in any of my cars and I only did two runs I’m happy enough with that.

I have no doubt that with a better driver on a better road the published figures would be achievable, but you’d probably have to thrash the car in a way that I don’t really like doing.

I’ll have another go in a few days on a better, longer road and see if I can reduce the wheel spin and improve my gear change.

My car is totally stock. Sport / Goodyears.
About half a tank of fuel and temp of 30C just now.

Im not surprised to see these figures 4.88/4.63, and that with a 440 tune for 8k extra! This is all it does.. around the 5 sec mark, and thats bad. To get close to the claimed figure of 4.3 you have to dump/destroy the clutch on a perfect day with the perfect driver.

The numbers should have build in margins and make those claimed numbers even with average to good driving skills.

 

[Foxy87]

Im not surprised to see these figures 4.88/4.63, and that with a 440 tune for 8k extra! This is all it does.. around the 5 sec mark, and thats bad. To get close to the claimed figure of 4.3 you have to dump/destroy the clutch on a perfect day with the perfect driver.

The numbers should have build in margins and make those claimed numbers even with average to good driving skills.

What you are saying doesnt make any sense. First you state you cant get the car to do 0-100 in under 6 sec. Now you say you are not surprised to see the figures below 5sec with a 440 tune while the guy posting the numbers clearly stated that his car is stock.

And finally after several videos and people stating that they messured around 4.5sec you are saying the numbers should have built in margins to be legit…?

If car manufactere publish Laptimes of the Green Hell, should they let average joe drive the car so the times are legit?

Seems like you are on a mission here…

 

[ADC]

The TLDR for this thread is basically Betteridge's law of headlines

 

[Steve24]

Im not surprised to see these figures 4.88/4.63, and that with a 440 tune for 8k extra! This is all it does.. around the 5 sec mark, and thats bad. To get close to the claimed figure of 4.3 you have to dump/destroy the clutch on a perfect day with the perfect driver.

The numbers should have build in margins and make those claimed numbers even with average to good driving skills.

You might want to try re-reading my post again.

Particularly the last paragraph.

 

[seriously]

Im not surprised to see these figures 4.88/4.63, and that with a 440 tune for 8k extra! This is all it does.. around the 5 sec mark, and thats bad. To get close to the claimed figure of 4.3 you have to dump/destroy the clutch on a perfect day with the perfect driver.

The numbers should have build in margins and make those claimed numbers even with average to good driving skills.

This is why I’ve never launched cars that weren’t PDKs. Dumping the clutch or feathering it can’t be a great idea. I’m sure it’s fine once in a while but I’d rather not. I find that clutches on my cars last forever.

A car doesn’t have to have an incredible 0-60 time to feel fast. I understand the obsession but it’s not a big deal to me. Higher speed pulls are more practical and reveal the car’s ability unless you are at the drag strip.

That said I’d like to see someone else post great times!

 

[Steve24]

This is why I’ve never launched cars that weren’t PDKs. Dumping the clutch or feathering it can’t be a great idea. I’m sure it’s fine once in a while but I’d rather not. I find that clutches on my cars last forever.

A car doesn’t have to have an incredible 0-60 time to feel fast. I understand the obsession but it’s not a big deal to me. Higher speed pulls are more practical and reveal the car’s ability unless you are at the drag strip.

That said I’d like to see someone else post great times!

You are absolutely right.
We are talking about a very analog car here.
And that’s the reason a lot of us bought it - it’ll likely be one of the last ever truly old school cars, and it just happens to be utterly beautiful.
A true future classic.

The idea that the average Joe could or should be able to achieve and repeat endlessly the best 0-60 time possible in this car is laughable.

I previously had a Golf R.
Ok, nothing to brag about, but my point is that it was great if you wanted to impress your mates at the traffic light Grand Prix, as all you had to do was engage launch mode and mash your foot to the floor. Yay!
Easily done, and easily repeatable, thanks to the tech, a decent DCT and all wheel drive.

And boring as fuck, unless you get off on that sort of thing.

The Emira couldn’t be more different.
You want to post perfect 0-60 times in this car?
You better get everything bang on, because (shock!) it’s up to you, not the car.

I did one more run this morning with my dragy.
I tried a different, much less aggressive technique.
Guess what?
My 0-30 time was almost a full half a second quicker than yesterday, and then I fluffed the gear-change so ultimately my 0-60 time was only 0.1 seconds better.
Lol.

My fault entirely. If I had made the gear change the same as I did yesterday the run would have been comfortably under 4.5

And that’s after three attempts.

 

[hellasf1]

You are absolutely right.
We are talking about a very analog car here.
And that’s the reason a lot of us bought it - it’ll likely be one of the last ever truly old school cars, and it just happens to be utterly beautiful.
A true future classic.

The idea that the average Joe could or should be able to achieve and repeat endlessly the best 0-60 time possible in this car is laughable.

I previously had a Golf R.
Ok, nothing to brag about, but my point is that it was great if you wanted to impress your mates at the traffic light Grand Prix, as all you had to do was engage launch mode and mash your foot to the floor. Yay!
Easily done, and easily repeatable, thanks to the tech, a decent DCT and all wheel drive.

And boring as fuck, unless you get off on that sort of thing.

The Emira couldn’t be more different.
You want to post perfect 0-60 times in this car?
You better get everything bang on, because (shock!) it’s up to you, not the car.

I did one more run this morning with my dragy.
I tried a different, much less aggressive technique.
Guess what?
My 0-30 time was almost a full half a second quicker than yesterday, and then I fluffed the gear-change so ultimately my 0-60 time was only 0.1 seconds better.
Lol.

My fault entirely. If I had made the gear change the same as I did yesterday the run would have been comfortably under 4.5

And that’s after three attempts.

Couldn’t agree more. I have LC with my JUBU 440 with my V6 manual but I’ve used it only 4 times on that cold day above I stated above. Don’t want to keep doing it, but it’s fun for sure bc it’s actually LC holds rpms and all but it’s the clutch I’m worried about. I had at least half a second of spin on my 4.39 run.

I probably will upgrade the clutch down the line but if I don’t have to I won’t especially so soon. If I consistently use LC I will need one sooner than later. But the car isn’t meant for that, it’s a nice feature I have activated bc I can but I’ve had this tune for about year and used it 4 times.

As far as 0-60. I came from a Giulia QV. On a warm day with the same tires I have on my Emira the Giulia I could get 3.7 consistently. The Emira feels equal to my QV after the tune. I do believe I can get 3.6-3.8 on a clean launch with grip on the street and especially with the GRP short shifter. My 4.39 run I was on stock shifter. Also that run it was just me in the car but on full tank. I raced open wheel formula cars in FL, I’m not the best driver in the world but I can definitely drive.

That being said it’s not super difficult to get 0-60 times. It’s about altitude, weather, tires, road (prep vs not) and how willing are you to abuse your car to get the “numbers” you want. Yes you have to know how to shift if it’s manual and if you don’t have LC like I do you have to know how to launch it good manually.

I really don’t want to abuse my clutch but I will wait for a really nice warm day so when I do it I know I’ll get the best numbers I can possibly get and post them. I’ll do it for the forum and community bc it’s nice to be apart of and share things, but if this forum didn’t exist for example, I wouldn’t care to even record it. My butt dyno numbers is all I need.

At the end of the day as stated over and over again, if you want the best 0-60 car for this cost you made the wrong decision. You can go get a new 25 M3 comp xDrive for around 90k and get as low as 2.8 0-60 stock! I’m sure that’s fun and the M car is nice car that I would like to add to my garage but I would take the lotus over it everyday.

 

[Eagle7]

Do you have any idea how Draggy is calculating a 1ft roll out? This is normally done via the distance required to cross and leave a drag race "line" via an optical sensor.

Draggy is what...just doing some math with an accelerometer to get an approximation?

Dragy uses GPS too. You can check out the details on their website dragymotorsports.com

 

[Eagle7]

I'm not focused on 0-60 specifically, but it's a known and recognizable measure that people can generally relate to in order to gauge acceleration performance. That's why I wanted a Dragy and will post results. It's nice to be able to "get up and go" when you press the gas pedal, especially when merging onto a freeway, or making a passing maneuver. Situations like being on a mountain road and there's a slow RV or truck ahead of you, and you need acceleration when the opportunity to pass presents itself. That's not 0-60, but it is acceleration from a low speed, and typically in a situation like that you often don't have that much room to pass the slower vehicle. I'm going to experiment around with the Dragy to see what kind of times I can get from a low speed, like 25 mph to 60, or 50-75 for freeway acceleration times, etc.

Acceleration response is really the metric I'm most interested in (speaking for myself), which is why I started the Adding Lightness journal thread, because that's what improves that response the most. I've posted several dyno run charts to present some kind of documentation (if possible) of the results for the mods I'm making, and I want to post some Dragy run charts to do the same for what those mods do out on the road.