Emiras advertised for sale on other sites

[Lotustoronto]

Agree with a lot of this..... but not the Ferrari comparison. Agree tech & some internal features (audio for one) of a Ferrari can be questionable.... what is not questionable is the ride & power train.... you drive a Ferrari, it comes alive & puts down power like no other car. I keep hearing the engine feels underpowered in the Lotus, you'd NEVER hear that in a Ferrari, but if your point is simply "brands sell", then I agree completely, but Lotus needs to rebuild its brand before it can be classed as a luxury brand (if that's even it's goal!)

Yes, but the Ferrari Dino was considered a bit differently - In fact it wasn't allowed to have the Ferrari badge on the front.... But my point was even if Ferrari created a "underpowered" sports car (not super car - as that is what a Ferrari always was - the Dino being the exception) sold it for far less than the super car Ferrari's (basically the poor mans Ferrari )it would still be completely sold out.

 

[Jon_N]

Yes, but the Ferrari Dino was considered a bit differently - In fact it wasn't allowed to have the Ferrari badge on the front.... But my point was even if Ferrari created a "underpowered" sports car (not super car - as that is what a Ferrari always was - the Dino being the exception) sold it for far less than the super car Ferrari's (basically the poor mans Ferrari )it would still be completely sold out.

Fair point, it would be trading off the aspirational brand & ability to appeal to a wider audience.... exactly what a brand like Tiffany does with the basic silver collection....

 

[Mistral]

So far I have not heard to much negativity from aftercare or service/major faults, but there is some. If this does not improve, or worsens, I myself will be out. Lotus needs to understand how important getting this right is for the brand. My guess is Geely will be stepping in soon, with regards to warranty/aftercare/CS etc. I am betting that they are not willing to gamble billions on something that has been called a kit car brand in the past, just to let it deteriorate further. They are heading in the right direction, and I can understand growing pains, but they best be fixing the problems as they arise. Customers will only handle so much dissatisfaction before they walk away and share their thoughts all over social media.

I'm sure that Geely only bought Lotus because they needed a brand and it was cheap (£180m for 49.9% of Proton and 51% of Lotus). They tried to buy a controlling stake in Aston Martin this year, forcing Lawrence Stroll to increase his holding to prevent losing control of the company. Having bought Lotus, Geely now have access to the chassis and suspension technology at Lotus and a brand name for their future products, but not necessarily the one which they really wanted. It will be interesting to see whether they keep Lotus for the long haul or whether it's an intermediate step. Let's hope it's the former.

 

[Dommo]

Magma car just disappeared from Autotrader

 

[Mctaff]

Oooh, wonder if it sold?!

And most of the other adverts are converging on a price in the 90’s

 

[Dommo]

Oooh, wonder if it sold?!

And most of the other adverts are converging on a price in the 90’s

Maybe £90k ish is the magic number for a physical car.......at the moment

 

[Forlorn]

I still think a fair amount of early Emira depositors were flippers/dealers. The phenomenon COVID car shortage was just too great a moment for them not to put deposits down looking for a quick profit.

I'll say it again, the reason the Emira isn't attracting huge overs is more down to timing/economy than the car itself. No one should expect any new vehicle to be above market rate these days. (apart from limited edition/GT cars from a handful of manufacturers... predominantly Porsche and Ferrari) Emira is an unknown quantity and if Lotus started shipping cars a year ago, yes the overs would be far larger, but that has to do with economy and supply, not the Emira. We can say the quality of the car isn't up to par, but in all honesty I have not seen nor heard anything detrimental to the QC. Niggles here and there, of course, and expected in the first few hundred produced.

Remember, Porsche GT cars and Ferrari get overs primarily because they limit production and in some cases only produce the cars for VIP clients. So if you want one, you gotta pay. It is very tightly controlled. Lotus will sell to as many depositors as possible. Only being held back by production. This is the difference. I think Lotus could have done a better job in many areas, primarily CS. Also running the F/E range far too long in the UK was silly and delaying the base spec/configurator is only going to alienate those customers as well. Constant pushing out production and lack of comms developed a lack of trust with the actual enthusiast buyer. We see that in the cancellation thread. Most people that cancelled were not flippers (at least I think they weren't), they were disappointed from CS, some the Emira itself, but mostly the lack of faith in Lotus to deliver on their promises. Porsche customers generally don't have CS/lack of trust in the brand. What we are seeing is the mixture of flippers/dealers looking for a profit and enthusiast's lacking of trust in the Lotus brand to deliver a well built car, that comes with the service expected from spending that sort of money. If it had a Ferrari badge, same infotainment, same seats, same KEF, same power, same yearly production of 5k, (ok not a Toyota engine lol) for 150K, the new Ferrari Dino idea - they would be sold out for 5+ years in one day. And not a single person would complain. Deal of the Century.

So far I have not heard to much negativity from aftercare or service/major faults, but there is some. If this does not improve, or worsens, I myself will be out. Lotus needs to understand how important getting this right is for the brand. My guess is Geely will be stepping in soon, with regards to warranty/aftercare/CS etc. I am betting that they are not willing to gamble billions on something that has been called a kit car brand in the past, just to let it deteriorate further. They are heading in the right direction, and I can understand growing pains, but they best be fixing the problems as they arise. Customers will only handle so much dissatisfaction before they walk away and share their thoughts all over social media.

I don’t think Lotus should be considered a “kit car” supplier that was in the 60’s. Very disingenuous I think.
With F1 constructor champions, many F1 driver championships, and indeed Indianapolis wins. They are serious motorsport greats.
Remember it was their adoption of aluminium extruded and glued chassis( which they pioneered) for the Aston Vanguish initially that rescued Aston Martin, let alone the Elise which revolutionised production, which we are seeing in the Emira.
The Elise tub and sub frame technology- made McLaren who did the same thing in the MC-12. And too date. Look underneath a McLaren and the design ethos is a Lotus.

Remember the 70’s the group tests were Ferrari 308, Porsche 911 and Lotus Esprit Turbo. There wasn’t much in it and Lotus made their own 907/910 engines at the time let alone the V8 of the 90’s. This was a serious company in those days.

Greeley have bought the badge, the legacy and heritage - thats what Anthony Colin Bruce Chapman stood for, one of the greatest automotive engineers, here in the UK. Just talk to Dallara who holds him in great esteem. Don’t underestimate what Greeley have bought.

 

[1stczechemira]

Greeley have bought the badge, the legacy and heritage...

Yes, Geely have bought the badge, the legacy and heritage - these are all very important attributes to be able to sell a Chinese mass product (coming cars made in Wuhan, China) in demanding markets and also better than the standard Chinese product in the market in China. For relatively little money, they don't have to build up respect for a new brand for decades and they're in right away.

 

[TomE]

The CC auction car with Scott Hardy has dropped from £105k to £100k already, within 48 hours of the first advert:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

 

[Dommo]

The CC auction car with Scott Hardy has dropped from £105k to £100k already, within 48 hours of the first advert:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

Obviously a reality check with a few around £90k now

 

[Leonard]

The CC auction car with Scott Hardy has dropped from £105k to £100k already, within 48 hours of the first advert:

Auto Trader UK - New and Used Cars For Sale

Find your next car with Auto Trader UK, the official #1 site to buy and sell new and used cars. Over 400,000 cars online. Simple, easy, quick!

www.autotrader.co.uk

If I was so inclined I'd have put mine on Autotrader for a no hassle 85k.

I think that's where the prices will land after Xmas until used cars start hitting the market.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I don’t think Lotus should be considered a “kit car” supplier that was in the 60’s. Very disingenuous I think.
With F1 constructor champions, many F1 driver championships, and indeed Indianapolis wins. They are serious motorsport greats.
Remember it was their adoption of aluminium extruded and glued chassis( which they pioneered) for the Aston Vanguish initially that rescued Aston Martin, let alone the Elise which revolutionised production, which we are seeing in the Emira.
The Elise tub and sub frame technology- made McLaren who did the same thing in the MC-12. And too date. Look underneath a McLaren and the design ethos is a Lotus.

Remember the 70’s the group tests were Ferrari 308, Porsche 911 and Lotus Esprit Turbo. There wasn’t much in it and Lotus made their own 907/910 engines at the time let alone the V8 of the 90’s. This was a serious company in those days.

Greeley have bought the badge, the legacy and heritage - thats what Anthony Colin Bruce Chapman stood for, one of the greatest automotive engineers, here in the UK. Just talk to Dallara who holds him in great esteem. Don’t underestimate what Greeley have bought.

I agree, the brand and motorsport heritage is only rivalled by a handful of automotive brands. I personally never considered Lotus a kit car brand, but to I have heard it referenced as such before. Even when I discuss the Emira with other car enthusiast friends, some still have that tainted idea. I was just pointing out - the stigma is still there for some, not all and not myself.

 

[fatjase]

You seem determined to keep saying (and in other posts) the Emira is poor quality. The same argument you’re using about overs - limited number of cars and small sample size - also applies to quality. Plus there’s the internet effect, with problems published online and endlessly debated but happy owners are out driving and often not posting (although we have a few on here).

Given the massive investment, cars held back and the apparent efforts of Lotus to deal promptly with early teething issues, why don’t we wait into Q1 and more deliveries before writing off the Emira as a low quality car?

The Emira isn’t trying to be better than a McLaren. Even being considered by some people as a viable alternative to Porsche is a step forward for Lotus.

My two pennies worth, Mclaren is not a brand for comparing against regarding quality as they have a very poor reputation in this regard however people still seem to love them and tolerate this due to the sublime handling and performance characteristics. Time will tell for Lotus but I'm pretty certain they will not have the kind of quality issues Mclaren have.

 

[nelly111s]

I still think a fair amount of early Emira depositors were flippers/dealers.

Is this based on facts or speculation? My opinion (FWIW) is the opposite - Evija maybe, not Emira.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Is this based on facts or speculation? My opinion (FWIW) is the opposite - Evija maybe, not Emira.

well, clearly it can't be fact. My opinion is really based on greed. The fact that the car market was red hot when the Emira was revealed and deposits taken. I side with people wanting to make an easy profit, which at the time was very very easy if you could get a car for MSRP. - So in short, it is/was a risk free bet, with a refundable deposit and the ability to turn profit. Ya, I think there was a fair amount of it. Hence why you will see an equal fair amount of depositors drop. Im not saying its the majority; 10-15% of first year deposits.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Price dropped to £99,991

Look at some of interior pics.... not very good trim work in this one I'm afraid.

 

[Cachaco131]

The brief for the Emira was a car that attracted people who normally buy Porsches, BMW's and the like to Lotus - I'm one of them. To attract them the car needs to be good, in the main it is but also expect quality to be as good as it can be, ease of servicing and ease to mange problems when they are found on my car.
I don't get that warm fuzzy feeling that Lotus, not yet, are a mature car manufacturer for my business as sexy as the car look.
There will be people with money dripping out of their pockets who buy these as a third, or fourth car but it was designed as a daily and as a daily i need other things to be easy, servicing and managing warranty issues for a start - possibly the same thought process Tom has.

I hope the Emira is nothing like a BMW M. Despite the added bhp, I just prefer something lighter, simpler, more an analog.

 

[1stczechemira]

I hope the Emira is nothing like a BMW M. Despite the added bhp, I just prefer something lighter, simpler, more an analog.

I'm definitely sure that Emira is much lighter, simpler and more analog than a normal BMW, let alone a BMW M.

 

[emiraspain]

I agree, the brand and motorsport heritage is only rivalled by a handful of automotive brands. I personally never considered Lotus a kit car brand, but to I have heard it referenced as such before. Even when I discuss the Emira with other car enthusiast friends, some still have that tainted idea. I was just pointing out - the stigma is still there for some, not all and not myself.

well originally it was a kit car
Lotus 7 was sold as a "kit" so not surprising.....
not a real kit and just a tax avoidance trick, but technically the dealer or customer still had to put bits on their car before using it...hence kit car.

 

[emiraspain]

Is this based on facts or speculation? My opinion (FWIW) is the opposite - Evija maybe, not Emira.

yes as Ive said a few times, we keep hearing of the huge amount of "flippers" supposedly who ordered Emira's, but with 100 odd cars delivered worldwide to customers... i gues.... .where are all the flippers????
Most cars for sale are dealers in EU or are not actually in customers hands in the UK....
I totally disagree with this huge flipper idea...... most sales as we have said, are disappointed customers, scared customers, frustrated customers or those reacting to changing circumstances...