Harry sells his Emira

[marc1adrien]

This whole thread is very interesting. It Got me thinking: Is there a safe car company? Most of us already purchased and love our Emiras. Many EV companies are burning way too much cash. The big US automakers are stepping back from EVs a little, but not totally, and their hybrid plans are ambiguous. Being risk-averse is understandable. It's just not a lot of fun when I buy a luxury good. I expect to lose money.

I do take issue with the "Super Car" trope. In most cases, I have seen It's the driver not the car. My original Evora dealer said it best (it was a Lamborghini dealer) Lotus is the most fun car to drive in California because your can get to 3rd gear with out going to jail. I have seen more wrecked C7 and C8's in my small town than I have seen any lotus in person.

It's a personal choice for me. It comes down to the simplest of things: 3 pedals.

Remember how Obama had to bail them out after the financial crisis...

 

[Lewquatious]

The problem, which has been alluded to previously on the thread is that if Lotus fails to develop the Emira, they will also fail in supporting it. Don't ask how I know. This is bad news for those who plan to keep their cars because they like and enjoy them. And there's no reason to change opinions on that. The Emira is just as good today as it was last week.

What Harry seems to be saying in fairly direct terms is that Lotus appears to be unwilling to support a sporting future. The Evija has been a big disappointment. The Emira, while a fine car, will not, he suggests, enjoy much more support from the factory than the prior sporting offerings have received. Rather than ushering in a new era for sporting Lotus, Harry tells us one won't be able to recognize the company's forthcoming vehicles in that light. If Harry buys another Lotus, it won't be an Emira or an Eletre and certainly not an Evija. It's more likely to be an Elige or GT430. I wouldn't even put money on that but Harry has spoken.

Disappointing if you're a fan of Lotus' design approach and the V6 and were hoping for a more extreme version of that. I think if there is real development of this Lotus, it will be with the AMG 4. And that car still waits without. Maybe the final version of that 365 HP will be like M horses...... at the rear wheel. That would be smart.

 

[David s]

The problem, which has been alluded to previously on the thread is that if Lotus fails to develop the Emira, they will also fail in supporting it. Don't ask how I know. This is bad news for those who plan to keep their cars because they like and enjoy them. And there's no reason to change opinions on that. The Emira is just as good today as it was last week.

What Harry seems to be saying in fairly direct terms is that Lotus appears to be unwilling to support a sporting future. The Evija has been a big disappointment. The Emira, while a fine car, will not, he suggests, enjoy much more support from the factory than the prior sporting offerings have received. Rather than ushering in a new era for sporting Lotus, Harry tells us one won't be able to recognize the company's forthcoming vehicles in that light. If Harry buys another Lotus, it won't be an Emira or an Eletre and certainly not an Evija. It's more likely to be an Elige or GT430. I wouldn't even put money on that but Harry has spoken.

Disappointing if you're a fan of Lotus' design approach and the V6 and were hoping for a more extreme version of that. I think if there is real development of this Lotus, it will be with the AMG 4. And that car still waits without. Maybe the final version of that 365 HP will be like M horses...... at the rear wheel. That would be smart.

Just ignore anything g Harry has to say. Watching his previous pods on the Emira, and now latest would make a good webinar for anyone learning about schizophrenia, and how it presents.

As for vehicle support. Why don`t you try and buy a part from Ferrari that's 10 or more years old. They just send you to a secondary supplier. I know this from current experience. The Emira will be fine. And I`m still calling BS on a "no petrol Lotus" after 2027. Read the papers and see what Ford and GM have changed their position on this. Basic common sense should have told you this very early on...but I guess there``s not much of that around these days...just take a look at Covid.

 

[Lewquatious]

Just ignore anything g Harry has to say. Watching his previous pods on the Emira, and now latest would make a good webinar for anyone learning about schizophrenia, and how it presents.

As for vehicle support. Why don`t you try and buy a part from Ferrari that's 10 or more years old. They just send you to a secondary supplier. I know this from current experience. The Emira will be fine. And I`m still calling BS on a "no petrol Lotus" after 2027. Read the papers and see what Ford and GM have changed their position on this. Basic common sense should have told you this very early on...but I guess there``s not much of that around these days...just take a look at Covid.

I beg your pardon, but ownership experiences vary from region to region. Lotus charges a 300% markup on even their generic parts here in the USA. Try to buy an Evora body panel....or brake light switch.... from three years ago if you live in the USA. Sourcing parts from third parties is more than just a hobby for late model Lotus owners.

Now, any Lotus must certainly be easier to own in England than the USA where the company responds glacially and common spares must either be shipped across the country or from England. Here, service and parts availability are much more difficult to source and will take significantly more time and expense to acquire. And since when is a Lotus a Ferrari? Are you proposing that the new clientele Lotus wishes to attract to the line (here) wish to enjoy the same ownership experience as Ferrari owners? Ferrari and McLaren are not Lotus' competition and even if they were, why would Lotus want to follow in Ferrari's footsteps? They must compete with Porsche and especially Chevrolet and it would be a great service and benefit to owners if their after sales management would match or exceed that of their actual competition.

Any prospective Emira owner should know what Lotus is and isn't capable of providing as respects service. The cars are great, the network here is not. However right or wrong you are about Harry, his video is not a ringing endorsement. When is the Type S or GT being announced?

Let's hope Lotus does come to its senses and changes with the times but to this moment, all we can be sure of is what the company itself says about its future. I'm not a hater and think the Emira is splendid but equally understand that Lotus must flesh out its service capabilities to succeed in the USA. That requires commitment to the marque and to the individual models it brings to market.

 

[David s]

I beg your pardon, but ownership experiences vary from region to region. Lotus charges a 300% markup on even their generic parts here in the USA. Try to buy an Evora body panel....or brake light switch.... from three years ago if you live in the USA. Sourcing parts from third parties is more than just a hobby for late model Lotus owners.

Now, any Lotus must certainly be easier to own in England than the USA where the company responds glacially and common spares must either be shipped across the country or from England. Here, service and parts availability are much more difficult to source and will take significantly more time and expense to acquire. And since when is a Lotus a Ferrari? Are you proposing that the new clientele Lotus wishes to attract to the line (here) wish to enjoy the same ownership experience as Ferrari owners? Ferrari and McLaren are not Lotus' competition and even if they were, why would Lotus want to follow in Ferrari's footsteps? They must compete with Porsche and especially Chevrolet and it would be a great service and benefit to owners if their after sales management would match or exceed that of their actual competition.

Any prospective Emira owner should know what Lotus is and isn't capable of providing as respects service. The cars are great, the network here is not. However right or wrong you are about Harry, his video is not a ringing endorsement. When is the Type S or GT being announced?

Let's hope Lotus does come to its senses and changes with the times but to this moment, all we can be sure of is what the company itself says about its future. I'm not a hater and think the Emira is splendid but equally understand that Lotus must flesh out its service capabilities to succeed in the USA. That requires commitment to the marque and to the individual models it brings to market.

Not sure you read my post properly.
ps. Ive have a coupe of Ferraris, and when compared to my Emira and 410 Exige, they're pretty comparable.

 

[Lewquatious]

Not sure you read my post properly.
ps. Ive have a coupe of Ferraris, and when compared to my Emira and 410 Exige, they're pretty comparable.

No disagreement here. Owning a Lotus is not akin to Porsche or Corvette ownership, the actual class of car Lotus compete with. I suspected owning one would be more convenient in the UK. Perhaps there's not as great a delta as I imagined?

Ownership of a Lotus, and they are indeed true exotic cars, offers benefits and niggles in equal measure as a result of this status. Service and Lotus specific parts requirements are very much in the category of other exotica which is something most Porsche or Corvette models do not aspire to. Clients new to the marque should understand what that means when they step up to one. I suspect most do, but it puts Lotus at a disadvantage when competing directly with such larger companies.

I do hope you're right about further IC or hybrid developments. I would very much like to buy a GT/S version if the Emira or its successors are ever made available as such. I don't see that as a realistic possibility for a GR-FE fitted vehicle and suspect if we do get such a thing, it will come with an AMG lump. Just guessing there. I do like the Toyota engine and consider it a plus in this car.

 

[Fasttoys]

No disagreement here. Owning a Lotus is not akin to Porsche or Corvette ownership, the actual class of car Lotus compete with. I suspected owning one would be more convenient in the UK. Perhaps there's not as great a delta as I imagined?

Ownership of a Lotus, and they are indeed true exotic cars, offers benefits and niggles in equal measure as a result of this status. Service and Lotus specific parts requirements are very much in the category of other exotica which is something most Porsche or Corvette models do not aspire to. Clients new to the marque should understand what that means when they step up to one. I suspect most do, but it puts Lotus at a disadvantage when competing directly with such larger companies.

I do hope you're right about further IC or hybrid developments. I would very much like to buy a GT/S version if the Emira or its successors are ever made available as such. I don't see that as a realistic possibility for a GR-FE fitted vehicle and suspect if we do get such a thing, it will come with an AMG lump. Just guessing there. I do like the Toyota engine and consider it a plus in this car.

Semi-agree, as Lotus is a Boutique brand, not necessarily a high-end brand like Ferrari or others. A Porsche GT3 and even C8 Z06 corvette have exotic materials in the cars. The engine of the Z06 has a tremendous amount of complexity and exotic materials. Let’s be honest the Emira is powered by a port injection older Toyota V6 with a supercharger mounted high on top. Toyota and Lotus claim they do not mess with the internals of the engine. The manual is from a Toyota Truck from the EU area. The looks are off the chart the aluminum sub frame is cool, but they been doing it for decades. The steering is hydraulic, but many reviews say it’s not as surgical as the Gt from a few years ago. I called my Evora the Frankenstein car as its use's parts from many different brands. The current Emira uses a lot of Toyota and Volvo Chinese type parts in the car. Since Lotus is rare and you won't see them much you can feel special as it creates its own story when someone see it. Most will say Lotus wow did not know they were still in business. Enjoy the car but let’s not elevate it to exotic car status because in reality it’s not, but maybe in the reality of the owner it is.

 

[Cutting42]

Just popped in to see the reaction to Harry's vid.

Nice to see Harry following my example ;-) although I never quite got to the ownership stage as I cancelled my i4 early this year.

I purchased from Thorney with their warranty and the car has been epic. Done about 1400 miles since April and truly enjoying the supercar experience and meeting other owners.

I thoroughly recommend Thorney for McLaren sales and support his car prep is second to none and you will get the best possible car that way. Yes you pay a little more but the peace of mind is invaluable for first time owners like me.

I still would like to own an Emira at some point, maybe when I have done the McLaren thing I will come back.

Good luck to you all and enjoy your beautiful Lotus

Mine is the green one

 

[Porter]

The US have spent US$1.5bn to train agents and journalists to announce propaganda negative news (undermining journalism!) against China year-on-year! So I wouldn’t fall for this, enjoy the car, I’m will collect mine soon because I’m a driver.…..

I'm sorry but I don't agree. The escalating trade war with China is not the result of propaganda, it has to do with direct action the Chinese government has been taking against North American and European companies in order to undermine their economic viability, often using the financial apparatus of the state to rig market outcomes.

I've been defending against China-based cyberattacks against US-based digital infrastructure (corporate and nonprofit/civil society) for the past 15+ years, so I have a particularly direct experience with this.

 

[Vintage]

I wish Harry the best with his used McLaren. Personal opinion, but I'll take the Emira over the McLaren all day long.
A lot of speculation on why he sold. If he's like some folks myself included, we like to change out cars. Sometimes when the honeymoon phase is over.

 

[WestCoastJunki]

Remember how Obama had to bail them out after the financial crisis...

My point exactly. Anyone recall hummer just discontinuing. Saturn, pontiac. Saftey is an illusion

 

[Lewquatious]

Semi-agree, as Lotus is a Boutique brand, not necessarily a high end brand like Ferrari or others. A Porsche GT3 and even C8 Z06 corvette have exotic materials in the cars. The engine of the Z06 has a tremendous amount of complexity and exotic materials. Let’s be honest the Emira is powered by a port injection older Toyota V6 with a supercharger mounted high on top. Toyota and Lotus claim they do not mess with the internals of the engine. The manual is from a Toyota Truck from the EU area. The looks are off the chart the aluminum sub frame is cool but they been doing it for decades. The steering is hydraulic but many reviews say it’s not as surgical as the Gt from a few years ago. I called my Evora the Frankenstein car as its uses parts from many different brands. The current Emira uses a lot of Toyota and volvo Chinese type parts in the car. Since Lotus is rare and you wont see them much you can feel special as it creates it own story when someone see it. Most will say Lotus wow did not know they were still in business. Enjoy the car but let’s not elevate it to exotic car status because in reality it’s not, but maybe in the reality of the owner it is.

It sits in a weird nether world. Most enthusiasts will be interested in them and many applaud your bold decision though they don't usually make the same choice for reasons. There are haters of course. I'd say they are exotic. They're just not high end.

Lotus cars in general get a lot of attention at gas stations and in traffic. Driving one rather than talking helps greatly ro understand the appeal and the deal. But they're often bought as an alternative to a used higher end exotic or a new/newer Porsche/Vette. There used to be new 4Cs, and in Europe, Alpine. I think most Lotus are more fun than those ever were and the Emira has all the refinement to appeal to modern drivers.

All the late Lotus sportys fill a unique niche and they were always a finely honed drive with tactility to match. It's their trick. Everything you say about the GRFE is true but it does come with satisfying mechanical reassurance in a land with too few dealers. The tranny is the source ofl woes and joys. Generally reliable and low cost compared to McLaren, (tactility) Ferrari, (GOAT)., Lambo (Hair on Fire) etc. but difficult to service and get parts for in the USA at least. Lotus specific parts are expensive. In an entry exotic way but sometimes may be sourced OEM and maybe can be sourced at the Volvo store. I'm not sure how that will work with Emira but this is not a concern while under warranty. For sure it's not a Porsch or a Corvette. But like them, it's nominally priced in an aspirational zone.

Back to Harry. It would be satisfying to know that there remains a healthy skunkworks in Hethel building cars for old men like me. Harry suggested maybe not. His opinion is as valuable as the next guys but he does have a platform most next guys don't.

From experience, I know I want the tart. I hope they build it.

 

[TomAce]

I still would like to own an Emira at some point, maybe when I have done the McLaren thing I will come back.

I'm sorry and don't want to offend you, but I found it too funny what Kyle Conner says in that that video about McLaren owners (at 49:20min.):

 

[schuey100]

Reading in-between the lines - I don't think Harry believes Lotus is a viable company any longer. If you look at the recent events taking place with Lotus I have to agree, the future looks dreadful.

1. Chinese made EV's - Clearly the EU and USA/CAN are determined to stop the flow coming in. Not good for Lotus.
2. Mike Johnstone Head of Commercial operations - Quit
3. Scott Walker - Quit
4. Lotus no longer doing direct sales to customers - Fail
5. Emira and Eletre being offered with 0% financing - Clearly not selling well
6. First Edition Emira's being offered for 3+ model years!? ('22, '23, '24 and '25) - Outrageous in automotive terms, most auto companies do a refresh after 4 years!
7. Emia's have only been on sale in North America for 3.5 months, many plagued with the same issues since 2022. By the end of year we will see plenty for sale below MSRP.

And this what we know. I am certain that Harry has a lot more insider information that he did not disclose.

We need to start being honest with ourselves, I love what the car is on paper, but there are serious issues going on with this company. He even admitted, with Geely taking over there was an expectation that it would follow the similar line to what was done with Volvo. This is not the case.

While he didn't call out the Emira itself as a bad vehicle and praised the design team, he felt Lotus as a company is over. Jumped ship while he still could without loosing a ton on depreciation.

You could keep your negative comments to yourself, who cares what he does with the car, he’s a youtuber and if he made another video on the Emira today it would be old news and no one cares. Plenty of comments slating the company. I love my I4 it’s amazing, a bargain price compared to the Mclaren which does zero for me so please keep your comments to yourself and leave the forum alone for positive people about this wonderful looking car.

 

[kitkat]

You could keep your negative comments to yourself, who cares what he does with the car, he’s a youtuber and if he made another video on the Emira today it would be old news and no one cares. Plenty of comments slating the company. I love my I4 it’s amazing, a bargain price compared to the Mclaren which does zero for me so please keep your comments to yourself and leave the forum alone for positive people about this wonderful looking car.

Who made you the Emira forum police? He didn’t even make any opinion statements, all of those things are factual. Sticking your head in the sand won’t help Lotus either.

 

[Lotustoronto]

You could keep your negative comments to yourself, who cares what he does with the car, he’s a youtuber and if he made another video on the Emira today it would be old news and no one cares. Plenty of comments slating the company. I love my I4 it’s amazing, a bargain price compared to the Mclaren which does zero for me so please keep your comments to yourself and leave the forum alone for positive people about this wonderful looking car.

While I am sure I have had plenty of negative comments over the years of waiting… (3 years since deposit) this was more of a thought on Harry’s video. Which ironically is what this thread is about. I was musing over Harry’s negative thoughts towards Lotus as a company. Perhaps you should send Harry a message and ask him to stop making negative Lotus videos, then we won’t have to see them posted on the forum and discussed. Good luck with that.

As for the Emira, I love the car - especially in V6 manual form. My passion comes from wanting Lotus to succeed, but sometimes we can’t be oblivious to faults, especially if they affect the company in a way that can see them removed from my market of North America.

Forums are created to see different view points, discuss differences in the automotive world, celebrate the success, praise the achievements, but also acknowledge the faults and hopefully find friends to navigate alongside with this wonderful machine.

 

[Lewquatious]

I’

While I am sure I have had plenty of negative comments over the years of waiting… (3 years since deposit) this was more of a thought on Harry’s video. Which ironically is what this thread is about. I was musing over Harry’s negative thoughts towards Lotus as a company. Perhaps you should send Harry a message and ask him to stop making negative Lotus videos, then we won’t have to see them posted on the forum and discussed. Good luck with that.

As for the Emira, I love the car - especially in V6 manual form. My passion comes from wanting Lotus to succeed, but sometimes we can’t be oblivious to faults, especially if they affect the company in a way that can see them removed from my market of North America.

Forums are created to see different view points, discuss differences in the automotive world, celebrate the success, praise the achievements, but also acknowledge the faults and hopefully find friends to navigate alongside with this wonderful machine.

Agreed.
Lotus often misses opportunities. Your list of issues should also include the Evija’s launch disappointments. The development assets invested in that car could have financed the Emira R and then some. The GT4 is neat but irrelevant to the market as well. And there should be no mistake. I’m a vested fan too.

Yet the Hethel sports cars remain unique and compelling to many enthusiasts. Admittedly it is easy to critique Lotus and hard to do what they do but the Emira launch has been rough. It’s what fans hoped the Geely infusions would have avoided.

 

[Eagle7]

I’


Agreed.
Lotus often misses opportunities. Your list of issues should also include the Evija’s launch disappointments. The development assets invested in that car could have financed the Emira R and then some. The GT4 is neat but irrelevant to the market as well. And there should be no mistake. I’m a vested fan too.

Yet the Hethel sports cars remain unique and compelling to many enthusiasts. Admittedly it is easy to critique Lotus and hard to do what they do but the Emira launch has been rough. It’s what fans hoped the Geely infusions would have avoided.

The thing is, without the Geely infusions there wouldn't have been a launch of either the Evija or Emira. Lotus would probably have folded during the covid debacle. As 'less than ideal' as things have been, they've made it through, have a beautiful car that's selling, and hopefully are making the adjustments internally that will keep them in business.

 

[allenyao09]

I traded in my GR Supra for the Emira, but it doesn't mean I don't like the Supra or anything is wrong. The Supra has been a phenomenal car and arguably more reliable and tunable than the Emira. It's also holding the value really well. Supra and Emira are very different animals and I just prefer the looks and pure driving experience of the Emira. Same applies to Harry switching to a McLaren.

 

[Nick in Sydney]

The thing is, without the Geely infusions there wouldn't have been a launch of either the Evija or Emira. Lotus would probably have folded during the covid debacle. As 'less than ideal' as things have been, they've made it through, have a beautiful car that's selling, and hopefully are making the adjustments internally that will keep them in business.

Agree. It's easy to forget that, despite the terrible launch, Emira has been a massive success for Lotus. In their wildest, wildest, dreams they never expected to take 10,000 deposits for the car. It will almost certainly be the best selling model in the history of the brand (Elise sold 35,000).