I don't get the I4 - what is the target audience?

[Porter]

Matt Windle said early on that they need Lotus's on the road, not just enthusiasts using them as weekend cars. He needs regular men and women to buy the car and drive it like a Miati, Porsche, BMW. If people see them on the road they will come to the dealership. Whether that will be achieved is yet to be seen.

If they wanted that, they should have designed the car in a way that ensured it could be trusted to start after sitting unused for a week. I know I personally won't be going anywhere overnight in it without taking a jump box with me.

 

[Tokion]

So, they built the Evija to show that they mean business and future electric trajectory. Then launched the Emira V6 for the classic Lotus enthusiast to say "we're not leaving you behind". Then, launching the I4 DCT for people that want a more practical super car looks, to expand the markets with high emission standards, and have longevity of the ICE car. And, launched the Eletre for SUV audience, a page out of the Porsche growth play book.

Hi EmirOfDenmark

I have another useful explanation about why I still cannot agree with your description of Lotus Car’s intent with the Emira i4.

Together with many Emira buyers around the world, I placed my deposit in the summer of 2021, and completely specified my desired car in April 2022 when no actual Emira i4 had been shown to the public (no sound to be heard, and no review to be seen). This meant that the order had to be made based on “the image” that was presented by Lotus cars at the time. It was presented as a super-fast and quick performance car. DCT/PDK (and other names for Dual Clutch transmissions) are known to be the fastest shifting gearboxes available, and therefore they are used by very many super cars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Bugatti, and even the Japanese Nissan GT-R. These are no slouches. All information I had at the time of deciding told me that this will be an exciting and fast sports car.

I did. absolutely NOT choose the car solely because of the looks, and my intention was not just to slowly cruise around on the city’s boulevards in a pretty car with a great body. As a matter of fact, the “looks component” among my reasons to chose the Emira i4 was no greater than for those I know who chose the Emira V6.

The recent reviews that only appeared on August 8, 2023 have some negative comments about the AMG 8G-DCT gearbox, but it has also been mentioned that these relatively minor issues probably will be possible for Lotus to fix in a software update.

Other issues, like a relatively lighter weight in the steering effort as mentioned by Zack Klapman, are debatable and most probably not a serious problem. Both systems use hydraulics for the actual steering action, while the M139 engine does not have a direct output from the engine for the hydraulics, so it is necessary to use an electrical powered pump to activate the hydraulics.

There are also direct dynamic advantages to the Emira i4 like a considerable lower point of gravity, and the much talked about (lighter weight) aluminum subframe that Matt Windle said he wished this could also have been included on the V6 car. However, for cost reasons this could not be justified. Obviously Lotus already had the steel subframe from the Evora for the Toyota engine, and this is also a major reason the Emira V6 technically is a version of the Evora; while only the Emira i4 is a brand new car design.

So, my point is that I strongly believe that Lotus Cars designed the Emira i4 as a completely new super-handling, performance LOTUS, and not at all just as a “city car” with a pretty body ;-)

Performance and handling is certainly my own main reasons for selecting the Emira i4 FE.

Thanks for your attention. I really appreciate everyone’s time to read what I have written. I truly respect and appreciate the decision by everyone who has selected an Emira V6, and I am hoping for the mutual respect for us who have selected the Emira i4. This car as well is a worthy and lovable LOTUS

 

[Magicman]

I don't get the i4 at all either tbh, it would have been easier to see a point of it if it was usefully lighter, say 80-100kg, I don't buy that pretty much any customers will notice the lower Center of gravity. Whilst I know the v6 has also had the same price hike that also seems to have damaged the i4 more than the v6 for some reason. So had it been a £60k ish version, stripped down a bit and 100kg lighter and they'd got the gearbox mapping right then I definitely see a point

However it clearly does appeal to plenty of people so what do I know different strokes and all that.

I am however patting myself on the back (more feeling lucky actually) for getting a v6 manual touring at launch price.

I don't even get the appeal for daily as I've had no problem dailying mine over the summer, makes mundane journeys feel an event.

 

[TomE]

…Is there a Lotus sports sedan coming out too??

Yes, the EV sedan is the next car they will launch, then a smaller EV SUV, then the EV sportscar. All due to be in production by the company’s 80th anniversary in 2028.

 

[TomE]

Here is an article I just found about the last manual transmission supercars. Makes me wonder what the sales figures of manual vs dct Emiras would be if they ever got decent availability in the same year.

List: All of the Last Supercars With a Manual Transmission

Since there really aren’t any true supercars featuring a manual transmission in 2020, we roundup some of the last models to do so.

www.motortrend.com

Bear in mind when they launched the Emira you could put a deposit on either version and both were (at the time) at least a year away, so similar availability. There were headline prices for both, and target emissions so people could work out their local taxes. Deposits globally were roughly 75% V6 and 25% i4.

Early depositors were probably a skewed demographic - people who followed new car launches and previous Lotus owners, and people who were prepared to put money down on a car they hadn’t driven and meant a long wait. Since then there have been cancellations and new deposits too. But I think the split is still similar.

The mix may change when First Editions stop and Base Editions of both become available.

 

[Tokion]

I don't get the i4 at all either tbh, it would have been easier to see a point of it if it was usefully lighter, say 80-100kg, I don't buy that pretty much any customers will notice the lower Center of gravity. Whilst I know the v6 has also had the same price hike that also seems to have damaged the i4 more than the v6 for some reason. So had it been a £60k ish version, stripped down a bit and 100kg lighter and they'd got the gearbox mapping right then I definitely see a point

However it clearly does appeal to plenty of people so what do I know different strokes and all that.

I am however patting myself on the back (more feeling lucky actually) for getting a v6 manual touring at launch price.

I don't even get the appeal for daily as I've had no problem dailying mine over the summer, makes mundane journeys feel an event.

Magicman:

Despite of what I wrote above, do you really feel it helps to “rub it in” to us who chose an i4 FE over 2 years ago and paid a non-refundable 10% in April 2022 when “speccing” the car, agreeing to refrain from asking for any other changes. At this time (when the reviews came out) all Emira V6 are sold out in the market where I reside, and there is no possibility to switch. But I am also not saying that I would have switched even if I could, because I still feel that the Emira I4 FE is right for me. It is a pity that I still cannot test drive an I4 FE to judge for myself; but a total impression from reading/watching all review material about the I4 that has emerged, I clearly feel that this version of the car has a rather different character and feel from the V6 version. I am of the impression that this character most likely will fit me.

It is not required for me to “daily it” since I run my business from the location where I also live. Besides I have another daily that is actually both faster and more powerful than an Emira V6; and it sounds absolutely wonderful with its stock, original Acrapovic exhaust system.

It is OK for me if you are “patting yourself on the back” (you can do it in private), and like I already have written in a previous post; I am asking for the members of each camp (V6 vs. i4) to show some mutual respect

 

[EyeFour Eemeerah!]

I don't even get the appeal for daily as I've had no problem dailying mine over the summer, makes mundane journeys feel an event.

I don’t quite understand this statement. Are you saying that an I4 would be unappealing? Yet you “daily” what…. The V6? I’m sure in Nottinghamshire you can daily the B roads. Here in the U.S. (especially in the Northeast) we tend to experience traffic. Daily. Our manuals are reserved for specials and weekends, and non-essential journeys. The DCT I4 Emira comes in handy in our case. I’m also encouraged that it apparently is getting a whopping near 40 mpg !!! When our gasoline here is sitting at $4.45 per gallon for premium , thats a long term win over the V6 I think!!

 

[Johnson]

…gasoline here is sitting at $4.45 per gallon for premium

Damn that’s cheap. Regular petrol is $2 a liter here ($7.80 a gallon?). And an Emira costs A$200,000. No offence, but I get a bit tired of Americans crying poor.

 

[EyeFour Eemeerah!]

Damn that’s cheap. Regular petrol is $2 a liter here ($7.80 a gallon?). And an Emira costs A$200,000. No offence, but I get a bit tired of Americans crying poor.

Maybe if you called it gasoline instead of petrol it would be cheaper? A$200K ? That’s $129K USD !!! And you still bought one?? You’re a better man than I !!! Even THIS poor American wouldn’t do that. I’ll have to tell my son to pack an extra suitcase of bills when he heads over to you guys. He’s going to Latrobe with hopes of hitting the speedway while he’s there.

 

[Magicman]

Magicman:

Despite of what I wrote above, do you really feel it helps to “rub it in” to us who chose an i4 FE over 2 years ago and paid a non-refundable 10% in April 2022 when “speccing” the car, agreeing to refrain from asking for any other changes. At this time (when the reviews came out) all Emira V6 are sold out in the market where I reside, and there is no possibility to switch. But I am also not saying that I would have switched even if I could, because I still feel that the Emira I4 FE is right for me. It is a pity that I still cannot test drive an I4 FE to judge for myself; but a total impression from reading/watching all review material about the I4 that has emerged, I clearly feel that this version of the car has a rather different character and feel from the V6 version. I am of the impression that this character most likely will fit me.

It is not required for me to “daily it” since I run my business from the location where I also live. Besides I have another daily that is actually both faster and more powerful than an Emira V6; and it sounds absolutely wonderful with its stock, original Acrapovic exhaust system.

It is OK for me if you are “patting yourself on the back” (you can do it in private), and like I already have written in a previous post; I am asking for the members of each camp (V6 vs. i4) to show some mutual respect

Well in my defence the thread title kind of opens the discussion up in that way.
We all had the same choice when choosing the engine years before delivery. I absolutely think the i4 will still be a good car in its own right and if the v6 did t exist no one would be upset about the i4. Its just hard to see why people thought at the time the entry level model would trump the "higher" for want of a better word, model v6.

 

[Magicman]

I don’t quite understand this statement. Are you saying that an I4 would be unappealing? Yet you “daily” what…. The V6? I’m sure in Nottinghamshire you can daily the B roads. Here in the U.S. (especially in the Northeast) we tend to experience traffic. Daily. Our manuals are reserved for specials and weekends, and non-essential journeys. The DCT I4 Emira comes in handy in our case. I’m also encouraged that it apparently is getting a whopping near 40 mpg !!! When our gasoline here is sitting at $4.45 per gallon for premium , thats a long term win over the V6 I think!!

It's different in the UK I suspect I grew up diving manuals and probably didn't have an auto car in the first 15yrs of my driving. I'd daily my v6 manual in traff8c without a second thought.

Also your gas/petrol prices are about half what we're paying in the UK

 

[EyeFour Eemeerah!]

Also your gas/petrol prices are about half what we're paying in the UK

All the more case for the I4 isn’t it? And do keep in mind, the average equivalent salary in the UK is $20.78 USD, whereas in the U.S. the average national salary is $10.99 USD (or roughly half).

 

[Magicman]

All the more case for the I4 isn’t it? And do keep in mind, the average equivalent salary in the UK is $20.78 USD, whereas in the U.S. the average national salary is $10.99 USD (or roughly half).

I would imagine the percentage of Emira owners, even those that daily it, that pay any attention to fuel consumption would be pretty small.
If it is a concern then that does add to the i4 appeal as the v6 is pretty thirsty tbh. On a long circa 70mph motorway run I've had 36mpg but it's teens around town and low teens on a spirited drive.

 

[Nova]

All the more case for the I4 isn’t it? And do keep in mind, the average equivalent salary in the UK is $20.78 USD, whereas in the U.S. the average national salary is $10.99 USD (or roughly half).

This doesn't look correct.

 

[Nova]

Damn that’s cheap. Regular petrol is $2 a liter here ($7.80 a gallon?). And an Emira costs A$200,000. No offence, but I get a bit tired of Americans crying poor.

I don't know enough about Australia to know whether its transportation system is more similar to the US or Europe/Asia. The US built its infrastructure largely with private car driving as the primary mobility method. Zoning laws also strictly separate residential buildings from commercial buildings in most suburban/urban areas. For example, it takes me at least 10 minutes of driving to get to any store or restaurant. There are, of course, cities and suburban communities where residential/commercial properties are intermixed, but this is the exception and not the rule in the US.

The people of the US pursued this type of development based on their culture, economy, and available natural resources. Having access to transportation energy that is not heavy-handedly manipulated by the government is important. So when the US government enacts policies that raise gas prices, the people rightfully complain.

 

[ADC]

I would imagine the percentage of Emira owners, even those that daily it, that pay any attention to fuel consumption would be pretty small.
If it is a concern then that does add to the i4 appeal as the v6 is pretty thirsty tbh. On a long circa 70mph motorway run I've had 36mpg but it's teens around town and low teens on a spirited drive.

I'm impressed you get 36mpg... is that proper brim-to-brim calculation, or the sneaky lying trip computer?

In every single car I've owned, I never seem to be able to get near the hypermiling-like highs that I see people claim. I guess I'm just a neanderthal with lead feet or something...

 

[ADC]

All the more case for the I4 isn’t it? And do keep in mind, the average equivalent salary in the UK is $20.78 USD, whereas in the U.S. the average national salary is $10.99 USD (or roughly half).

This doesn't look correct.

Yeah, I agree... this smells off. Can you show your working?
Relevant bureaus of statistics show $53490 per annum vs approx £33K per annum (based on 640 per week measured in July).

Taxes are a significant factor of fuel cost in the UK. You are definitely better of for fuel prices in the US.

 

[CHEESE]

Yeah, average salary in the US is a lot higher than average salary in the UK, and "take home" pay broadens the gap given the higher UK income taxes.

 

[Tokion]

Well in my defence the thread title kind of opens the discussion up in that way.
We all had the same choice when choosing the engine years before delivery. I absolutely think the i4 will still be a good car in its own right and if the v6 did t exist no one would be upset about the i4. Its just hard to see why people thought at the time the entry level model would trump the "higher" for want of a better word, model v6.

Thanks, Magicman.

We really seem to understand each other. I hope to see you some day. And I really want you to enjoy your Emira V6. “Drive it like you stole it” as the saying goes. One of my friends is also getting a V6, so I may have a chance to swap cars

My frustration is really with Lotus Cars that first of all detuned the (about) 420 hp Mercedes application to 360. And my biggest gripe is that they did not present the i4 to the public until two years after they started to take customer’s deposit and initial down payment (10%). Only then we are told the truth. And we still have no i4 available to test drive.

I will still stay with my i4 choice. There is no chance to swap to a V6, and my only alternative would be to cancel (incurring the 10% prepayment as a loss.) But I will not cancel, and my dream is to own a Lotus at least once in my lifetime. (I have driven several, all manual, Lotus cars belonging to others; including the “insane” Exige Cup 430, and other Elise and even Opel Speedster and Tesla Roadster S.)

Born in 1955 I also drove solely manual cars for the first 20 years of my driving “career”. Three of my cars were Mazda RX-7 (Turbo) that I drove both on the road and on a few tracks, including the famous Fuji Speedway. (Once I received driver’s training by Le Mans Mazda Rotary driver Terada-san.) https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/lemans30th/mrlemans/

In more recent years I have owned more automatics (torque converter) including a SAAB 9000 Aero, and three BMW including my current E93 335i, and also current F31 Alpina B3 Bi-turbo Touring with Drexler mechanical LSD. The reason is that Tokyo is so damned congested.

All the best

 

[EyeFour Eemeerah!]

This doesn't look correct.

Surprise.