Interesting Factory / Build info

[Superman]

Did you notice any US cars (Orange markers in the headlights) on the line or finished?

Nope, none with orange markers that I could see (and I was looking).

 

[Superman]

See any i4's ?

Loads. Majority being built that I could see at the time were i4. (There were i4 and V6 engines in the production hall, so probable they were making a mixture).

All of the built ones I could see were badged LOTUS NYO (so, for the China market). Although there were lots without badges going through production, so it may be possible that some are for other markets... But I doubt it tbh.

 

[John777]

I don't really think you can compare Toyota vs Lotus Takt times. If a car takes 10-12 hours to build at Lotus, with 23 minutes at each station, that means there are 26 to 31 stations. Meanwhile, the most recent factory layout for a Toyota facility in Japan shows 92 stations. Obviously, Toyota's factory has more streamlined automation and tooling and their car parts are designed for streamlined production.

Stellantis Chrysler Minivan comes off the end of the line completed every 45 secs.
From start say in BIW body in white shop to end of final and inspection takes I'll guess 9 hours can't remember exactly. There are probably 9 different departments. Probably around 1200 work stations and these can have varying cycle times. Cycle times could be 20secs to 2mins or whatever.. I'm not privy to each 1200 jobs lol. They do have part and car banks. Its more complex than you'd think not very easy to figure out and explain easily. Its a giant operation. Each area has conveyors and lines running at certain cycle times. Lets say zone 4 final has 45 secs cycle time , you could be lucky but rare and have a cycle time of 25 secs so you have some reading time between jobs...or you could possibly work up the line and gain more time.. but Industrial engineers like to overload jobs to inhumane levels.. so your more than likely trying to do 60secs worth of work in 45secs of line speed. Again very complex systems. They have every movement figured out to each step you take .. golden zone or not.. etc..too much to discuss on here. Seems like Lotus uses more of a transfer station cycle time.. so no moving line that is constant but instead the car comes into the next station and sits there for 23 mins while people do their work. Then transfers to the next station. Chrysler also has this system in certain departments like BIW. Its true sometimes your limited to robotics and how fast they can operate.. but they would just add another robot and break that work into 2 and say run 85% capacity rather than 100% considering they have the floor realestate.
Anyways everyone can guess/speculate how Lotus assembly operates but I'm sure you would never know exactly 100% its not as simple as you might think. There are so many variables at play that we aren't privy too. Just my 2 cents.


How many employees work at Lotus building the Emira? 26 to 31 stations doesn't seem like enough. They have 5 people 10 ? 15? working at each station? seems like it would be crowded.. I'm guessing the have at least triple that maybe 75 to 100 stations. Chrysler had 5000 employees on 3 shifts was 8500 long ago but they cut jobs every year and get more efficient. Thats what required to build 500 cars a day x 3 shifts would be 1500 cars a day being loaded for delivery.


Takt Time is a measure of the amount of time between the completion of one unit and the beginning of the next. Cycle time refers to the average time taken to complete a single unit.

 

[Nova]

Stellantis Chrysler Minivan comes off the end of the line completed every 45 secs.
From start say in BIW body in white shop to end of final and inspection takes I'll guess 9 hours can't remember exactly. There are probably 9 different departments. Probably around 1200 work stations and these can have varying cycle times. Cycle times could be 20secs to 2mins or whatever.. I'm not privy to each 1200 jobs lol. They do have part and car banks. Its more complex than you'd think not very easy to figure out and explain easily. Its a giant operation. Each area has conveyors and lines running at certain cycle times. Lets say zone 4 final has 45 secs cycle time , you could be lucky but rare and have a cycle time of 25 secs so you have some reading time between jobs...or you could possibly work up the line and gain more time.. but Industrial engineers like to overload jobs to inhumane levels.. so your more than likely trying to do 60secs worth of work in 45secs of line speed. Again very complex systems. They have every movement figured out to each step you take .. golden zone or not.. etc..too much to discuss on here. Seems like Lotus uses more of a transfer station cycle time.. so no moving line that is constant but instead the car comes into the next station and sits there for 23 mins while people do their work. Then transfers to the next station. Chrysler also has this system in certain departments like BIW. Its true sometimes your limited to robotics and how fast they can operate.. but they would just add another robot and break that work into 2 and say run 85% capacity rather than 100% considering they have the floor realestate.
Anyways everyone can guess/speculate how Lotus assembly operates but I'm sure you would never know exactly 100% its not as simple as you might think. There are so many variables at play that we aren't privy too. Just my 2 cents.


How many employees work at Lotus building the Emira? 26 to 31 stations doesn't seem like enough. They have 5 people 10 ? 15? working at each station? seems like it would be crowded.. I'm guessing the have at least triple that maybe 75 to 100 stations. Chrysler had 5000 employees on 3 shifts was 8500 long ago but they cut jobs every year and get more efficient. Thats what required to build 500 cars a day x 3 shifts would be 1500 cars a day being loaded for delivery.


Takt Time is a measure of the amount of time between the completion of one unit and the beginning of the next. Cycle time refers to the average time taken to complete a single unit.

I would guess no more than 2 people per station and they have to be working together or on complete different ends/sides of the car. Safety/error concerns would prevent there being any more people per station. It's likely a person or two-oerson team have a fairly complicated multi-step job, such as laying the whole main wiring harness, installing the whole audio system, etc.

 

[John777]

I would guess no more than 2 people per station and they have to be working together or on complete different ends/sides of the car. Safety/error concerns would prevent there being any more people per station. It's likely a person or two-oerson team have a fairly complicated multi-step job, such as laying the whole main wiring harness, installing the whole audio system, etc.

We had jobs where there'd be 5 or more people in the same area touching the same car. Your working ontop of each other.
Most jobs are like one after another say with 10feet between each job on same side.. then you have other side and sometimes people infront and behind the car..lol

 

[Porter]

The stations are balanced so that the work performed at each station takes about the same time. Each station moves it's completed work forward to the next station at the same time. Every 23 minutes the stations move forward and a completed car leaves the line.

There are a number of reasons they can't get below 23 mins at the moment. It could be literally that one station can't move faster, which limits the entire line. It could be something else, but that's a common issue.

And if you have a station with really long completion time compared to the rest, in a process that can't reasonably be broken down further, then you parallelize that one station with two teams, and allow double the normal TAKT time for each. You end up with an input buffer queue and output buffer queue for that station pair, but just of a single car on each side.

 

[KAR120C]

And if you have a station with really long completion time compared to the rest, in a process that can't reasonably be broken down further, then you parallelize that one station with two teams, and allow double the normal TAKT time for each. You end up with an input buffer queue and output buffer queue for that station pair, but just of a single car on each side.

I wonder which station(s) is their bottleneck? They are only 5 mins off their goal so probably aren't ready to invest/reorganize for the parallel station approach just yet. Might actually be better to not push that workforce to their limit until all the gremlins are worked out!

I wish I could go take that tour again with a different eye on the operation and a notebook full of questions to ask!

 

[Fido]

TAKT time is an interesting topic. In 23 minutes there is a lot of work to be done, and as a consequence, a lot of potential for variability in build. A 1 min TAKT time means each worker or robot has time to fit and fix one or two components at most. So everything is done in a very simple and repeatable rhythm and there is no scope for faffing about or miss fitting a part. In 23 mins quite a bit of scope exists for adding variation to the build sequence. So any hose or cable or wire might get routed in a different way or fixings started, run up and final torqued at different times etc. With a short TAKT time the next station tends to check the work of the prior one. So, for example, station X may fit a part but station Y will apply the final torque to the fixing. With 23 mins of work it is very likely that any errors will not get seen until later and often too late for an easy fix to be done. Thus an extensive post assembly rectification will be required. So if you want quality, you really want a short TAKT time.
However, breaking the build into more workstations requires a considerably longer assembly line and a much bigger facility investment, often only realistic if you're planning to build many tens of thousands a year. There’s a very good reason the VW Golf was/is as well built as it is. And, equally, Range Rovers have a poor reputation for reliability.

 

[KAR120C]

TAKT time is an interesting topic. In 23 minutes there is a lot of work to be done, and as a consequence, a lot of potential for variability in build. A 1 min TAKT time means each worker or robot has time to fit and fix one or two components at most. So everything is done in a very simple and repeatable rhythm and there is no scope for faffing about or miss fitting a part. In 23 mins quite a bit of scope exists for adding variation to the build sequence. So any hose or cable or wire might get routed in a different way or fixings started, run up and final torqued at different times etc. With a short TAKT time the next station tends to check the work of the prior one. So, for example, station X may fit a part but station Y will apply the final torque to the fixing. With 23 mins of work it is very likely that any errors will not get seen until later and often too late for an easy fix to be done. Thus an extensive post assembly rectification will be required. So if you want quality, you really want a short TAKT time.
However, breaking the build into more workstations requires a considerably longer assembly line and a much bigger facility investment, often only realistic if you're planning to build many tens of thousands a year. There’s a very good reason the VW Golf was/is as well built as it is. And, equally, Range Rovers have a poor reputation for reliability.

It really depends on the how the station is set up. When I was there, there were multiple people at each station. It's entirely possible that a quality check is performed within the workstation. And, as I watched the chassis/roof assembly, they were doing what you described. They pointed out (and I can't remember exactly the pieces involved) that initial fittings were not all tightened, but within the space of that workstation they went through a series of steps as the parts were finally tightened. It was not a bad design, just different from an expensive multi-station design. The robots were very flexible and could do different jobs on the one station.

 

[John777]

TAKT time is an interesting topic. In 23 minutes there is a lot of work to be done, and as a consequence, a lot of potential for variability in build. A 1 min TAKT time means each worker or robot has time to fit and fix one or two components at most. So everything is done in a very simple and repeatable rhythm and there is no scope for faffing about or miss fitting a part. In 23 mins quite a bit of scope exists for adding variation to the build sequence. So any hose or cable or wire might get routed in a different way or fixings started, run up and final torqued at different times etc. With a short TAKT time the next station tends to check the work of the prior one. So, for example, station X may fit a part but station Y will apply the final torque to the fixing. With 23 mins of work it is very likely that any errors will not get seen until later and often too late for an easy fix to be done. Thus an extensive post assembly rectification will be required. So if you want quality, you really want a short TAKT time.
However, breaking the build into more workstations requires a considerably longer assembly line and a much bigger facility investment, often only realistic if you're planning to build many tens of thousands a year. There’s a very good reason the VW Golf was/is as well built as it is. And, equally, Range Rovers have a poor reputation for reliability.

Ideally each station is not supposed to send their job to the next station unless it is 100% complete and 100% quality product. At Chrysler they wanted us to tread the next zone or operator as our" customer "and you wouldn't send junk or something incomplete to the next station. Repairs if possible would be made before sending your item or whatever on to the next build station. Also lets say you missed a crucial part then this could cause a snowball effect and create more repairs down the line as other stations can't complete their jobs because of your incomplete work. The engineers spend a lot of time "dummy" proofing jobs.. This means making it almost impossible to screw up. This could mean reducing human error by various means or part variance from suppliers.. there are so many things you guys wouldn't understand unless you've worked in a automotive assembly plant. We don't know what each worker does at lotus... or cycle/takt times... this wouldn't be made public. 1minute takt time to fit one or 2 components as you say is dependent on so many variables. Maybe if your installing a muffler and a couple bolts 1 minute.. Jobs at Chrysler you'd have many parts and movements per cycle. These movements were called elements.. many elements per job. some jobs could be installing in say a wheel fender shield and 7 screws and then possibly plugging in a few wires etc.. all in about 45 secs. I'm gonna guess Lotus is more lenient with time to complete each job. More hand built.. But over time they will want more efficiency and the costs of labor reduced 4 or 5% of the total cost of and average production built car.

 

[JohnForDC]

I wonder what the total build has been so far? And has there been a model year change yet?

 

[Aero]

I had a tour (and track event) Thursday June 8th and just got back from vacation. Glad Superman already covered most of what I had to remember. When I was there that day every engine station was an I4 and maybe 1 or 2 I4s were in the first car assembly stations. We were told those were for China and mostly for evaluation by their investors (i think).
I asked specifically when NA car builds were starting and the guide honestly said he had no idea and hasnt been told (or would tell). I expected him to say 'Soon'
There were A LOT of finished cars sitting outside. Guide said this was due to trying to get lorrie/truck drivers available to deliver them.
Also asked for a % of components in the car that originated in China. Most of the ones he listed were from European countries so not sure how true that was. Did list a couple like wheels etc from China.
In the parking lot near the track school trailer there were a lot of auto cars parked with an acronym marked on windshield with '_ _ _ issue. Wish i could remember what it was.
I looked at a lot of the paint finish on cars. Almost all looked real good. On one in the customer pickup it had small blemishes where it looked like it wasnt cleaned properly or lightly scratched.
Saw no new colors at all. not even samples. Was told there were some cars around but didnt get to see them. Very disappointed in that.

 

[Superman]

We don't know what each worker does at lotus... or cycle/takt times... this wouldn't be made public.

But we do, that's kind of the point here...
Is great to get your input as you have clearly worked on a vehicle production line, but perhaps you don't understand that the Lotus factory tours are literally walking alongside the entire factory floor, seeing all elements being assembled, able to see pretty much EVERY station, so is relatively easy to actually see what happens through the steps (e.g. one of the final stations is two people doing full 4-wheel alignment and headlight alignment).

And the current Takt time is 23 mins, they are being pretty public about that.

 

[SteveJohnson]

I had a tour (and track event) Thursday June 8th and just got back from vacation. Glad Superman already covered most of what I had to remember. When I was there that day every engine station was an I4 and maybe 1 or 2 I4s were in the first car assembly stations. We were told those were for China and mostly for evaluation by their investors (i think).
I asked specifically when NA car builds were starting and the guide honestly said he had no idea and hasnt been told (or would tell). I expected him to say 'Soon'
There were A LOT of finished cars sitting outside. Guide said this was due to trying to get lorrie/truck drivers available to deliver them.
Also asked for a % of components in the car that originated in China. Most of the ones he listed were from European countries so not sure how true that was. Did list a couple like wheels etc from China.
In the parking lot near the track school trailer there were a lot of auto cars parked with an acronym marked on windshield with '_ _ _ issue. Wish i could remember what it was.
I looked at a lot of the paint finish on cars. Almost all looked real good. On one in the customer pickup it had small blemishes where it looked like it wasnt cleaned properly or lightly scratched.
Saw no new colors at all. not even samples. Was told there were some cars around but didnt get to see them. Very disappointed in that.

Shortage of drivers and trucks isn't the problem - I was delivering there the other day and there were drivers waiting around for cars that weren't ready, even tho there were loads of cars outside