Just been offered a C8……dilemma! Help me decide…

[Pegasi]

This is THE most anti-C8 YouTube review out there or certainly one of them. Compare this review to the others which are generally favourable towards the C8, to put his into context. I found it an odd review:

-he actually finds the visibility on the C8 AOK, whereas many others complain about it;
-he knocks the looks, power, steering and almost anything else that makes a good sport car;
-he also complains about the price, which is elsewhere almost universally praised as good value for the performance you get.

He may have a point about where to get the car serviced; I'm not familiar with what GM has for dealerships in that part of the world. It's certainly the exact opposite problem for North America C8 owners.

I'm still waiting to test drive the Emira and my closest Lotus dealership (*3 hour drive one-way; a few years ago it was a 12 hour drive) hopes to get one by May or June, but who knows given all the delays most of the automotive world is experiencing these days. I suspect Jay Emm will be correct and the Emira will live up to the Lotus reputation of being "a driver's car" with its steering/handling, especially with its available manual transmission (not available with the C8). I don't know if I'll miss the raw power of the C8. I agree that the Emira certainly looks better than the C8. In many ways, 2 different vehicles...but I found his C8 review unfair and think people should check out other reviews before simply accepting his point of view or better yet, take a C8 for a test drive.

Good post. I think you make a great argument and wanted to give my perspective.

I agree that this review is unfair but maybe for different reasons than you. Your reply is interesting because it made me think about all the reviews for the Emira and how a lot of people thought some were unfair. My biggest beef with reviews and comments about cars is not respecting or acknowledging the different desires towards a performance car. I was speaking to a friend who was describing his Tesla and how he loves the fact that he can hit the pedal and "go zing" he said while using a hand motion. He doesn't know the vehicle weight, nothing about the brakes, wasn't sure if it was AWD, RWD or FWD, or even how much power the car has. Especially in the coming age of EVs, what is the definition of a car enthusiast? Cause that guy was sure enthusiastic about this Tesla.

I agreed with most of Jay's points about the C8. I also like how he compared the C8 to prior models. I love C7s. But what he and others do wrong is understand how others might find the interior futuristic, find the styling unique, etc. I understand the C8 and I think it's an awesome car but I know it's not for me for precisely the reasons Jay laid out.

All these last ICE cars are knocked out of the park. The Emira is a stunning car and Lotus has done a marvelous job of making an affordable supercar that may have a broadening appeal as we narrow into the EV madness. The C8 is superb, the GT4 RS, GT350R, Supra, ZL1 1LE, F-Type SVR, Hellcat, M cars, and many more. In my opinion this is an intense, ironic time to be an enthusiast. On one hand all makes are putting some of the best sports cars out there, but on the other hand the doom to keep hearing this is their last ICE sports car is sad.

Anyway, sorry to diverge so much. This is a great forum.. Jay should explain the C8 and who it's for and why it's great. He should then give his opinion and why that contrasts with the car. This opinion should be just mentioned briefly.

I saw a white C8 with an all black roof today, looked wicked.

 

[lion shf]

He should then give his opinion and why that contrasts with the car. This opinion should be just mentioned briefly.

completely disagree. All these guys drive hundreds? of cars every year. I drive about 5. I 100% want to hear his opinion. Why else would I watch. I can learn about A pillar leaks, new transmissions after 500 miles and cost of maintenance from my forum bros. You guys butt hurt by reviewers I just don’t get

 

[Concept24]

Don’t know if Tom will be cool with this and I’m cool if he zaps it but I’m out on the c8 cause look:

First track day with the C8 - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

C8 General Discussion - First track day with the C8 - Well today was my full day tracking the new-to-me C8 (I had one near freezing wet session a couple weeks ago but I?m not counting that). https://youtu.be/a_ctrskgzO8 Had a great time but had the transmission skipping even gears on the way...

www.corvetteforum.com

its f cking endless. I want to love it so bad

This is the same guy whose post I just pasted. And believe me he's not anywhere near the first to have a transmission fail for one of various reasons.

 

[Silver Storm]

I would say that the C8s are far from "no risk" cars, as the corvette forum is loaded with page after page of quality issues.

Like engine failure? I rather have an old but trusted 3.5L Camry engine that’s tried, tested and true over a high performance C8 engine that might blow up on me

 

[netsinah]

I thought we were all "car people" and not "car bashing people"...

I'm hoping to test drive an Emira, which is slow coming to Canada and elsewhere which isn't surprising these days with all the automotive delays. My dealership "tester" is supposed to arrive in June and I'm looking forward to sampling it and if I fall in love with it, I'll buy one. I LOVE the Emira's looks and the fact it's a mid-engine platform. My interest in the Emira peaked when those same delays hit the C8 Corvette Z06, of which I'm a fan due to its track capabilities/performance/price.

I frequent Corvette Forums (and Emira as well) and I'm now driving a 2023 C8 Stingray, my second one after I sold my 2020 C8 to get funds which I thought at the time would be needed for a Z06 purchase. Anyway to my point: I take issue with Concept24's comment above that "the corvette forum is loaded with page after page of quality issues". Personally, I had a burnt out headlight for my 2020 (easily fixed under warranty, as one was in stock locally despite being a first MY) and zero problems with my 2023. All my friends who own 2020 - 2022 C8's, have had no problems (none). Yes there have been transmission issues and a some engine problems with the C8. But that's not uncommon for a totally new design (unlike a "tried and true" Toyota engine, for example). Yes like most forums, these problems get reported and the people who have those issues aren't happy, even when they get a replacement transmission or engine. However, they're in the minority and with today's "in-your-face lightening quick Web communication", these problems get amplified and become fodder for those looking to criticize.

Having taken the Spring Mountain Corvette Owner's school in Nevada twice, the C8 Stingray is an absolute beast on the track and performs ++ well, aside from being ++++ fun to drive, even as a daily driver. The Z06 on the track, will be even more effective, since that's its focus. Of interest, when I was last at Spring Mountain about a month ago, I asked one of the senior instructors what sport car he'd prefer, if money was no object. He immediately pointed to a "bare bones" Lotus Elise, which isn't surprising given his track focus.

My only regret is I can't afford both a C8 and Emira (and my spouse might divorce me with both, lol), however since my emphasis is on handling (steering, braking, cornering) rather than torque/HP, I'll happily get rid of my C8 Stingray and dreams of a Z06, and buy an Emira if it delivers on those better than a C8. The fact it has a manual transmission (unlike the C8) is another big plus, along with its lighter weight. My only concern is that my nearest Lotus dealer is a 3 hour drive (one way) from my City, so addressing any warranty issues will be a challenge. And no, I don't expect any Emira to be "perfect"; most vehicles aren't and this is a new MY.

There are LOTS of nice sport cars (past and present) that we're all able to admire or for some, own (those lucky people with the financial wherewithal when it comes to the higher priced exotics or having multiple nice cars in their stable). I marvel at our current technology and how much vehicles have improved, when it comes to performance, safety, fuel efficiency and aesthetics. The selection we have to choose from, with different vehicles having different characteristics, is amazing. I think we're all fortunate to be living in these automotive times. My 2 cents.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I thought we were all "car people" and not "car bashing people"...

I'm hoping to test drive an Emira, which is slow coming to Canada and elsewhere which isn't surprising these days with all the automotive delays. My dealership "tester" is supposed to arrive in June and I'm looking forward to sampling it and if I fall in love with it, I'll buy one. I LOVE the Emira's looks and the fact it's a mid-engine platform. My interest in the Emira peaked when those same delays hit the C8 Corvette Z06, of which I'm a fan due to its track capabilities/performance/price.

I frequent Corvette Forums (and Emira as well) and I'm now driving a 2023 C8 Stingray, my second one after I sold my 2020 C8 to get funds which I thought at the time would be needed for a Z06 purchase. Anyway to my point: I take issue with Concept24's comment above that "the corvette forum is loaded with page after page of quality issues". Personally, I had a burnt out headlight for my 2020 (easily fixed under warranty, as one was in stock locally despite being a first MY) and zero problems with my 2023. All my friends who own 2020 - 2022 C8's, have had no problems (none). Yes there have been transmission issues and a some engine problems with the C8. But that's not uncommon for a totally new design (unlike a "tried and true" Toyota engine, for example). Yes like most forums, these problems get reported and the people who have those issues aren't happy, even when they get a replacement transmission or engine. However, they're in the minority and with today's "in-your-face lightening quick Web communication", these problems get amplified and become fodder for those looking to criticize.

Having taken the Spring Mountain Corvette Owner's school in Nevada twice, the C8 Stingray is an absolute beast on the track and performs ++ well, aside from being ++++ fun to drive, even as a daily driver. The Z06 on the track, will be even more effective, since that's its focus. Of interest, when I was last at Spring Mountain about a month ago, I asked one of the senior instructors what sport car he'd prefer, if money was no object. He immediately pointed to a "bare bones" Lotus Elise, which isn't surprising given his track focus.

My only regret is I can't afford both a C8 and Emira (and my spouse might divorce me with both, lol), however since my emphasis is on handling (steering, braking, cornering) rather than torque/HP, I'll happily get rid of my C8 Stingray and dreams of a Z06, and buy an Emira if it delivers on those better than a C8. The fact it has a manual transmission (unlike the C8) is another big plus, along with its lighter weight. My only concern is that my nearest Lotus dealer is a 3 hour drive (one way) from my City, so addressing any warranty issues will be a challenge. And no, I don't expect any Emira to be "perfect"; most vehicles aren't and this is a new MY.

There are LOTS of nice sport cars (past and present) that we're all able to admire or for some, own (those lucky people with the financial wherewithal when it comes to the higher priced exotics or having multiple nice cars in their stable). I marvel at our current technology and how much vehicles have improved, when it comes to performance, safety, fuel efficiency and aesthetics. The selection we have to choose from, with different vehicles having different characteristics, is amazing. I think we're all fortunate to be living in these automotive times. My 2 cents.

well said

 

[Magma]

I thought we were all "car people" and not "car bashing people"...

I'm hoping to test drive an Emira, which is slow coming to Canada and elsewhere which isn't surprising these days with all the automotive delays. My dealership "tester" is supposed to arrive in June and I'm looking forward to sampling it and if I fall in love with it, I'll buy one. I LOVE the Emira's looks and the fact it's a mid-engine platform. My interest in the Emira peaked when those same delays hit the C8 Corvette Z06, of which I'm a fan due to its track capabilities/performance/price.

I frequent Corvette Forums (and Emira as well) and I'm now driving a 2023 C8 Stingray, my second one after I sold my 2020 C8 to get funds which I thought at the time would be needed for a Z06 purchase. Anyway to my point: I take issue with Concept24's comment above that "the corvette forum is loaded with page after page of quality issues". Personally, I had a burnt out headlight for my 2020 (easily fixed under warranty, as one was in stock locally despite being a first MY) and zero problems with my 2023. All my friends who own 2020 - 2022 C8's, have had no problems (none). Yes there have been transmission issues and a some engine problems with the C8. But that's not uncommon for a totally new design (unlike a "tried and true" Toyota engine, for example). Yes like most forums, these problems get reported and the people who have those issues aren't happy, even when they get a replacement transmission or engine. However, they're in the minority and with today's "in-your-face lightening quick Web communication", these problems get amplified and become fodder for those looking to criticize.

Having taken the Spring Mountain Corvette Owner's school in Nevada twice, the C8 Stingray is an absolute beast on the track and performs ++ well, aside from being ++++ fun to drive, even as a daily driver. The Z06 on the track, will be even more effective, since that's its focus. Of interest, when I was last at Spring Mountain about a month ago, I asked one of the senior instructors what sport car he'd prefer, if money was no object. He immediately pointed to a "bare bones" Lotus Elise, which isn't surprising given his track focus.

My only regret is I can't afford both a C8 and Emira (and my spouse might divorce me with both, lol), however since my emphasis is on handling (steering, braking, cornering) rather than torque/HP, I'll happily get rid of my C8 Stingray and dreams of a Z06, and buy an Emira if it delivers on those better than a C8. The fact it has a manual transmission (unlike the C8) is another big plus, along with its lighter weight. My only concern is that my nearest Lotus dealer is a 3 hour drive (one way) from my City, so addressing any warranty issues will be a challenge. And no, I don't expect any Emira to be "perfect"; most vehicles aren't and this is a new MY.

There are LOTS of nice sport cars (past and present) that we're all able to admire or for some, own (those lucky people with the financial wherewithal when it comes to the higher priced exotics or having multiple nice cars in their stable). I marvel at our current technology and how much vehicles have improved, when it comes to performance, safety, fuel efficiency and aesthetics. The selection we have to choose from, with different vehicles having different characteristics, is amazing. I think we're all fortunate to be living in these automotive times. My 2 cents.

Lol...When someone says there are "pages and pages" of reports of this and that on forums, usually it's pages and pages of comments (many not even on the same topic!) and only a few actual people posting with problems.

 

[lion shf]

Lol...When someone says there are "pages and pages" of reports of this and that on forums, usually it's pages and pages of comments (many not even on the same topic!) and only a few actual people posting with problems.

Dreaming dreams if you think C8s don’t have trans issues. Any fool who buys a c8 out of warranty is a fool

 

[dgrace]

Dreaming dreams if you think C8s don’t have trans issues. Any fool who buys a c8 out of warranty is a fool

My show-stopper for the C8 is the fact that if the engine isn't running, the car is a brick which can't even be rolled out of the way. Just a major design flaw IMO. Imagine overheating or running out of gas while in a busy left turn lane, and having to wait to see which happens first: flatbed truck arrives or your dream car gets rear-ended and totaled.

 

[Magma]

Dreaming dreams if you think C8s don’t have trans issues. Any fool who buys a c8 out of warranty is a fool

Not even close to what I said...but why don't you try counting the people with actual issues vs the comments in those long threads and get back to me...
Are you seriously trying to say a blown tranny thread with 2000 posts has 800 people with problems?

 

[Concept24]

Here's a couple of pages of common "issues" with the C8 Corvette. You can certainly choose to think that none will apply to YOUR or your friend's Corvette. Good luck with that. The main problem with many non-Japanese vehicles over the last 20+ years is their electronics. After a certain number of years (approximately 7 with the 1997-2000 model year C5s), GM stops stocking electronics and owners hope that some aftermarket company has access to the board designs, in order to have it replicated. Way back in the 60s and 70s, non-electronic parts were replicated after a certain number of years. In 1985-1988 time frame, mechanical tachometer cables for my 68 C3 were no longer made by GM, but shortly afterward, aftermarket ones became available, thankfully.
C8 Corvette common issues:

 

[lion shf]

Not even close to what I said...but why don't you try counting the people with actual issues vs the comments in those long threads and get back to me...
Are you seriously trying to say a blown tranny thread with 2000 posts has 800 people with problems?

I understand the forum squeaky wheel forum bros but cars are failing with 500 miles on them. Numbers proven or no it’s still not great. What REALLY took the c8 off my list is HTC top problems (out of warranty could be 10k+) and several unresolved bandaid fixed A pillar leaks. F THAT A pillar leaks no ty

 

[netsinah]

Just to point out the Emira has its share of problems (at this early stage of its life):

Lotus Emira Problems and Issues

Here is the place to discuss any problems or issues with the Lotus Emira

www.emiraforum.com

And then for a different Lotus (the highly touted Elise), it's got its share of issues which may (?) foretell the future of the Emira (??):

Everything You Need to Know Before Buying a Lotus Elise

The Elise is one of the best-handling road cars of all time. Here's what you should know before you buy.

www.roadandtrack.com

And to quote from that article about the Elise:

What Should I Look Out For?

While the drivetrain is from Toyota and generally bulletproof, the Elise is still a British sports car. And sadly, it hasn’t escaped the unreliability stereotype associated with British machinery. Aging electronics can cause problems over time, while interior trim pieces can become brittle and crumble, or cause squeaks and rattles. The trunk release cable can snap, and on early cars, the side windows can fall out of alignment. There was even a recall to fix gear shifters that broke during normal use. Water getting into the cabin through the roof’s weather stripping is common, so if you plan on owning an Elise, we’d suggest garaging it.

Perhaps the most infamous weak point of the Elise, however, is the body itself. The front bodywork consists of a single large fiberglass clamshell; the same is true for the rear. As many owners have found out the hard way, it can be prohibitively expensive to repair or replace one of these pieces. A small fender-bender in an Elise often ends in the car being totaled by the insurance company, simply because sourcing, painting and installing a new clamshell could cost more than the car is worth. It’s part of the reason you might see a bunch of Elises on the market with salvage or rebuilt titles.

I know I know, Lotus has spent millions retooling its plant and the Emira is the dawn of a new age for Lotus...however the point is that ANY MASS PRODUCED VEHICLE will have its problems. Sure you can focus on the GM C8 engine and DCT and claim they're common problems (I dispute that and think them in the minority), but the reputation of British cars in general (some say their problems add to their charm) and the concerns expressed above about the Elise body, are tough to ignore. Combine that with the "not easily accessible" Lotus warranty work or servicing (unlike GM, for example, for North Americans like me) with Lotus buyers such as myself who have to drive 3 hours one-way (or transport a disabled Lotus) for that type of work, it complicates one's purchasing decision.

But again, I'm keen on the Emira and won't be deterred when it comes to buying one, if I fall in love with it. I hope all the money Lotus has spent retooling its manufacturing process, will put the Elise and other Lotus problems far in its rear-view mirror. If not, like others who experience vehicle problems (such as those with C8 problems...unlike my friends and I who own C8's) you can put up with a LOT when you enjoy the ride! Many sports car enthusiasts "married" to their vehicles, have been doing that for decades! My 3 cents.

Happy sports car motoring to all, whatever you drive or hope to drive!

 

[Magma]

I understand the forum squeaky wheel forum bros but cars are failing with 500 miles on them. Numbers proven or no it’s still not great. What REALLY took the c8 off my list is HTC top problems (out of warranty could be 10k+) and several unresolved bandaid fixed A pillar leaks. F THAT A pillar leaks no ty

And I totally understand the worry. When I first got my C7 GS, reading the many threads about the failed torque converters, cracked rims, panel misalignment and paint rubbing, etc kinda ruined the ownership experience, even though the only one that really effected me on both my C7's was the panel/paint rubbing issue.
But going back through the sticky thread about C7 issues when I got my Z06, the majority of posts are just people's comments about other people's problems. It's really hard to tell how widespread each issue is in the end. The polls kinda help.
Obviously there was a class action suit about the rims, but we all know how those usually go and GM won that one.

 

[Concept24]

Again, it boils down to:
Why did the issue happen?
Did the manufacturer devote resources to truly fix the issue, or did they simply replace the failed part with the same? Parts don't magically fix themselves. It's both comical and sad to read about the problems in the Corvette Forum.
GM is notorious for the latter. As a moderator in a very large Lexus forum, I can guarantee you that there are FAR fewer issues with the vast majority of their vehicles.
Brushing off the bad quality policies of GM by saying all manufactures have problems is like telling your boss that every employee makes major mistakes, often, even after doing the same type of work for many years.
Once you own vehicles that are truly reliable for 18+ years as I have, you tend to not tolerate what poor quality. If Lotus fixes the Emira's bugs so that most do not return, I will buy one.
.

 

[netsinah]

Again, it boils down to:
Why did the issue happen?
Did the manufacturer devote resources to truly fix the issue, or did they simply replace the failed part with the same? Parts don't magically fix themselves. It's both comical and sad to read about the problems in the Corvette Forum.
GM is notorious for the latter. As a moderator in a very large Lexus forum, I can guarantee you that there are FAR fewer issues with the vast majority of their vehicles.
Brushing off the bad quality policies of GM by saying all manufactures have problems is like telling your boss that every employee makes major mistakes, often, even after doing the same type of work for many years.
Once you own vehicles that are truly reliable for 18+ years as I have, you tend to not tolerate what poor quality. If Lotus fixes the Emira's bugs so that most do not return, I will buy one.
.

Now I understand your perspective. I stand corrected when it comes to all mass produced vehicles having issues. They do, however Lexus stands alone at the top for reliability. I don’t know how many years they’re usually at the top of the J.D. Power surveys (always?). If that’s your litmus test for buying a vehicle, it may be hard to leave Lexus. Lexus has now entered the performance realm but never having driven one or looked at reviews for this newer line-up, I can’t comment. I suspect it will match the Lexus high reliability standard. I don’t think Lexus has come out with a regular-production mid-engine car yet (?), but I’d check it out were that to happen. Until then I’ll stick with the C8 Corvette and Emira as affordable mid-engine sports car options, as opposed to the exotics. Nice to have options, including Lexus if that’s your cup of tea.

 

[d15b7]

Hey guys. I have a DV V6 6sp manual on order; but I’m also a fan of all sorts of cars and don’t like seeing them falsely accused/maligned. (I actually own a Corvette too, and have for a long time. Mine is a 1990 C4 ZR-1, triple black, 9k original miles. Incredible car for it’s time (and has the Lotus designed hand built LT5 quad cam 7200 rpm 375 hp engine ). I’ve had the pleasure to drive a C8 Z51 (great car especially given its pricing. Incredible value). For all the people saying ‘it’s horribly unreliable it won’t make it home from the dealership’ on the forums — how about this guy, who makes his living renting exotic cars. He’s got two C8s in his fleet (one Stingray and one Z06); he has 80k rental miles on the Stingray and 2500 on the Z06 (he just recently received that one). Other than oil changes and tires and routine maintenance he’s had no problems to speak of. And let me tell you, the people who rent those cars are NOT being gentle with them!!! So, ya, there’s a solid data point for you. (Short vid of Rob telling about his C8 experience so far):

 

[Concept24]

Now I understand your perspective. I stand corrected when it comes to all mass produced vehicles having issues. They do, however Lexus stands alone at the top for reliability. I don’t know how many years they’re usually at the top of the J.D. Power surveys (always?). If that’s your litmus test for buying a vehicle, it may be hard to leave Lexus. Lexus has now entered the performance realm but never having driven one or looked at reviews for this newer line-up, I can’t comment. I suspect it will match the Lexus high reliability standard. I don’t think Lexus has come out with a regular-production mid-engine car yet (?), but I’d check it out were that to happen. Until then I’ll stick with the C8 Corvette and Emira as affordable mid-engine sports car options, as opposed to the exotics. Nice to have options, including Lexus if that’s your cup of tea.

I must also add that my Mazdas have been very reliable as well (although not quite on the same level of Toyota/Lexus).
There is a rumor that Toyota may resurrect the MR2, which would likely be a very reliable car that handles well.
The LC500h would make for a great city car and cruiser, especially here in CA where fuel is over $5/gallon.

 

[Concept24]

Hey guys. I have a DV V6 6sp manual on order; but I’m also a fan of all sorts of cars and don’t like seeing them falsely accused/maligned. (I actually own a Corvette too, and have for a long time. Mine is a 1990 C4 ZR-1, triple black, 9k original miles. Incredible car for it’s time (and has the Lotus designed hand built LT5 quad cam 7200 rpm 375 hp engine ). I’ve had the pleasure to drive a C8 Z51 (great car especially given its pricing. Incredible value). For all the people saying ‘it’s horribly unreliable it won’t make it home from the dealership’ on the forums — how about this guy, who makes his living renting exotic cars. He’s got two C8s in his fleet (one Stingray and one Z06); he has 80k rental miles on the Stingray and 2500 on the Z06 (he just recently received that one). Other than oil changes and tires and routine maintenance he’s had no problems to speak of. And let me tell you, the people who rent those cars are NOT being gentle with them!!! So, ya, there’s a solid data point for you. (Short vid of Rob telling about his C8 experience so far):

I guess if you were to fly on a plane that was reliable 80% of the time, you'd have second thoughts. I've rented some very fast cars and never did I abuse any. The brake disc "hot spots" he showed in the video was ot necessarily an indication of abuse. My 2001 C5 Corvette had the same problem at less than 15,000 miles. The dealership machined the rotors under warranty but when the same thing happened at 25,000 miles, I swapped out the crap GM rotors with slotted cryo rotors. I sold the car with 52,000 miles without any further rotor issues. The failing HUD, alternator, and power windows though..........
I really hope GM changes its ways but really doubt that their electronics and V8 oil consumption will ever be on the same level as the electronics and piston-sealing levels in Toyotas, Lexus, and Mazda vehicles, so for those who took the chance, all I can say is "Good luck."