Lotus Technology 1H 2024 Financial Results

[kitkat]

Would everyone on this thread still buy an Emira if you knew the financial data that we know today?

It’s not like this is a surprise, we’ve known it’s bad for a while.

 

[kitkat]

So lotus being a bad company definitely does not surprise me LOL but if the company goes under (and is not bought by another company), what happens to our manufacturer warranty? Parts availability? (Eg body panels etc, not the Toyota parts)

Gone.

 

[FlyNavy01]

Would everyone on this thread still buy an Emira if you knew the financial data that we know today?

Lotus has been flirting with bankruptcy for multiple decades, wasn't that already common knowledge among most here? Even so, does that actually matter? I personally couldn't care less about their financials. Once my warranty is up I have zero ties to the company or their success. Given that Geely owns them and is hundreds of times larger than Lotus, they're likely just a loss leader for their future vehicle plans and can afford to subsidize them for as long as they want.

 

[drjazzsk]

Problem is that Geely may want to cut its losses and dump Lotus. That's frankly what a business would do with a poorly performing asset. So yeah the fact the financials are poor is concerning. Especially considering the ongoing issues that still plague the car that people keep posting about. The warranty and part/support infrastructure needs to be stable/available otherwise badness will follow. My 2 cents...

 

[Lotustoronto]

I didn't think overall the sales numbers were that terrible. If you compare say AM which sold 1,998 units in H1 2024 or Mclaren at 1,645 units in H1 2024 it is not terrible for the little English brand. Mind you, they are selling at a higher price point and better margins. But Lotus is gaining market share and there will be more 2024 model year Lotus cars driving around than any other English luxury car brand. If they actually achieve 12K sales total for 2024 it would be impressive. I just don't know what they do with North America. It looks to me after listening to the conference call they are willing to sell Eletre and Emeya at a loss to gain US market share. So perhaps we will receive these EV's in 2025 despite the tariffs. Albeit, I am sure the allocations coming into North America will be tiny and the big push will be ROW. It does seem they have a very big runway to gain market share in other places. Only 928 deliveries outside of China, EU and N/A. I can see that easily increase when you consider Japan, Australia, Korea, Middle East, India and other parts of South East Asia. Lotus unfortunately is the only brand being slaughtered by North American EV tariff, but the willingness to continue deliveries to gain market share is being done as a "Brand" / "Marketing" not by the accountants. I think Geely backs them until sales go negative YOY for consecutive years. Until then the trajectory is correct and so is the plan, even if the tariff's puts them in an impossible situation in our market. Eventually a North American or EU plant would have to make sense.

 

[crestima]

So lotus being a bad company definitely does not surprise me LOL but if the company goes under (and is not bought by another company), what happens to our manufacturer warranty? Parts availability? (Eg body panels etc, not the Toyota parts)

Well, the warranty is the easiest to predict, that is, it would disappear along with the company. As for true Lotus parts availability, there are unfortunately quite a number of precedents from which you can draw conclusions, like SAAB and Fisker, just to name two fairly recent ones. Parts would still be available for some time, given the stockpiles in place, but would be increasingly harder to get and one would have to start relying on car cemeteries or other auto parts manufacturers to make copy replacements. (think Cobra replica parts manufacturers as an example).

Unfortunately however, I believe this concern becomes a bit academic, since the more damaging effect of a scenario in which Lotus would go under, would be the detrimental effect on the resale values. Have you checked the prices of a SAAB and Fisker lately? It wouldn't take too long to reach the dilemma of why invest in parts and servicing a car with so little value? If this scenario were to materialize, maybe I'd just park my Emira in a barn somewhere and one of my kids would go pick it up some 25+ years from now and find a priceless inheritance. (haha, think 427 OEM Cobra). On a serious note though, I don't mean to come across as alarmist or pessimistic here, but there are unfortunately a few cases out there to draw such conclusions. One thing that springs some hope, is that Lotus has been through quite a long track record of being ping-ponged around and has somehow survived (think the value of their engineering and design capabilities).

 

[Nick in Sydney]

Would everyone on this thread still buy an Emira if you knew the financial data that we know today?

Yes, I can't see Lotus Cars (the Hethel-based company) disappearing. Remember, they're not even legally part of Lotus Technology yet. Lotus Tech has an exclusive license to sell their products and an option to acquire them.

 

[seriously]

The lotus history and brand are stronger than some that have disappeared. Perhaps that is the hope to keep the brand alive as it has so survived thus far.

 

[EspritGuy]

Can’t see Eletre or Emeya coming to US/CAN. Unless they expand Hethel to build some EV’s for that market. Which isn’t impossible but unlikely.

Had a chat at my dealer a bit ago about this matter and the opinion was Lotus might ship much of the vehicles from China to Hethel for 'final assembly ' and shipment to NA as a workaround.
Haven't heard/seen this concept elsewhere so legitimacy is questionable.
Space and training would be needed to pull this off. Dealers have a lot at stake, having made charging modifications/investment.

 

[WindJunkie]

So lotus being a bad company definitely does not surprise me LOL but if the company goes under (and is not bought by another company), what happens to our manufacturer warranty? Parts availability? (Eg body panels etc, not the Toyota parts)

I'm wondering this as well. I know it's not apples to apples, but look at the Fisker debacle. Folks who bough $60k+ E-SUVs are stuck with near worthless bricks when they quit working. Rich Rebuilds recently bought a basically brand new one for super cheap that was not working. Last I checked he couldn't get it working but it was only his original pick up video, which was hilarious and super entertaining to watch, if you haven't seen it yet.

 

[Sandalwood]

Lotus has been flirting with bankruptcy for multiple decades, wasn't that already common knowledge among most here? Even so, does that actually matter? I personally couldn't care less about their financials. Once my warranty is up I have zero ties to the company or their success. Given that Geely owns them and is hundreds of times larger than Lotus, they're likely just a loss leader for their future vehicle plans and can afford to subsidize them for as long as they want.

Agreed. I think that's why us previous Lotus owners don't even blink at talks of them going under. When Colin died, when they tried to sell themselves as a contract engineering and dynamics firm, when they made a big gamble on a small-volume bonded-aluminum Type 111 chassis...There are so many stories you could immediately point to and then marvel that they survived.

In this modern era where we could, if we really had to, print 3D parts or find equivalent component parts, I'm not worried at all. I actually feel much better than when I had my Elise. I'm also grateful for the fact the car has the same long block as my daily ES350.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

Had a chat at my dealer a bit ago about this matter and the opinion was Lotus might ship much of the vehicles from China to Hethel for 'final assembly ' and shipment to NA as a workaround.
Haven't heard/seen this concept elsewhere so legitimacy is questionable.
Space and training would be needed to pull this off. Dealers have a lot at stake, having made charging modifications/investment.

I've seen this in other industries where companies want "Made In USA" labels. As long as the final assembly is done in the US (even if its a small part) they can legally claim that label.

 

[Sandalwood]

I've seen this in other industries where companies want "Made In USA" labels. As long as the final assembly is done in the US (even if its a small part) they can legally claim that label.

Well, they seemed to have wised up to that part. For EVs in 2024, 60% of the value of battery components must be produced or assembled in North America to qualify for half of the $7,500 tax credit. This percentage will increase to 100% starting in 2029.

 

[Nova]

Problem is that Geely may want to cut its losses and dump Lotus. That's frankly what a business would do with a poorly performing asset. So yeah the fact the financials are poor is concerning. Especially considering the ongoing issues that still plague the car that people keep posting about. The warranty and part/support infrastructure needs to be stable/available otherwise badness will follow. My 2 cents...

Lotus UK shouldn't be lumped together with the rest of the Lotus Tech, IMO. Lotus of UK, with its engineering, brand, and manufacturing capabilities, flawed as they are, have value far beyond the other parts of Lotus Tech. If this Lotus experiment fails, I anticipate that the electric vehicle projects will dwindle or be stopped altogether. Geely may fold in the electric vehicle R&D and selling overhead with the rest of their operations to save on those costs. The product will suffer, but I'm not sure if that matters all that much.

I regard it as very unlikely that Geely will sell off the Lotus brand or let Lotus of UK go, because that's the one part of Lotus that can justify its existence by itself.

 

[idleuser]

Lotus has to be the most unlucky company that got hit with covid headwinds and having the leadership at Geely shove 2 EV projects down their throats on top of the tariff wars between the US and China.

2021 - 2024 - Covid+Inflation
2022 - 2024- Forced to work on Emeya/Eletre projects instead of focusing on their bread and butter
2024 - Present - Tariff /EV Wars

They just can't catch a break.

 

[cyanmauve]

This is yet another chapter in the long saga of Lotus. It isn't the final one.

If Geely wants to dump it, someone will come in and buy the brand new, pretty factory for a song, and continue making the already developed and tested cars for as long as possible. If necessary, they can add new panels and stickers to the existing line up to announce the new ownership and get more press from online auto journalists.

What to do with the Emira? Do what Porsche does- strip out interior content, make a few panels out of carbon fiber, add a different exhaust, and sell for a 10-15% premium. The press release will read something like this:

"Under their new Acme Industries ownership, chief engineer Alastair Ottombottom, CBE, has refocused Lotus' efforts and created the Emira-S. It's 63 kg lighter, with FIA-certified one piece carbon fiber bucket seats, and an extra 300 rpm at redline. It's the true successor to the Evora GT we all craved."

 

[weihnachts]

"the Emira-S. It's 63 kg lighter, with FIA-certified one piece carbon fiber bucket seats, and an extra 300 rpm at redline. It's the true successor to the Evora GT we all craved."

not ashamed to say...

 

[benjh1028]

I think if a smart successor would look at the demand for the Emira and focus solely on what made a Lotus a Lotus it could be a profitable niche company. Two cars max. A coupe and a spyder. Follow Porsche's recipe for the 718 platform. It works.

 

[EZcheezy]

I think if a smart successor would look at the demand for the Emira and focus solely on what made a Lotus a Lotus it could be a profitable niche company. Two cars max. A coupe and a spyder. Follow Porsche's recipe for the 718 platform. It works.

I would buy an Emira spyder in a heart beat

 

[Sandalwood]

I would buy an Emira spyder in a heart beat

I'm not a convertible person (I only have convertible Miatas because there's never been a fixed-roof coupe), but I think it probably would sell great. Having both is a good idea, and the black-pack cars have given us an idea of what the character lines would look like.