More details for KEF Audio

[Mctaff]

My bedroom Kef setup apparently has 100w per tweeter plus 280w per bass unit, so Kef seem to believe they need a significant amount of power to drive their speakers - 760w in total! - for this small home setup. They are 8 ohm speakers too so that is a mind boggling amount of amp output… unsure of the car speakers impedance.

That said my naim amp is 80w per channel and is bloody loud if you turn it up, also into 8ohm speakers.

Doesn’t seem to make much sense… assuming the power ratings are both rms

 

[Mctaff]

And that’s peak power not RMS!!

is it peak?! That does feel comparatively low then…

 

[FederGigant]

My bedroom Kef setup apparently has 100w per tweeter plus 280w per bass unit, so Kef seem to believe they need a significant amount of power to drive their speakers - 760w in total! - for this small home setup. They are 8 ohm speakers too so that is a mind boggling amount of amp output… unsure of the car speakers impedance.

That said my naim amp is 80w per channel and is bloody loud if you turn it up, also into 8ohm speakers.

Doesn’t seem to make much sense… assuming the power ratings are both rms

Oh it makes sense, because buyers like big numbers a KEF tweeter can approximately take 20 watts of power before the voice coil burns. And a 5 inch woofer in the LS 50 can take around 40 watts to reach his maximum excursion, more than that can physically damage the unit. All estimates, but close to reality. I designed a lot of active and passive speaker systems and you require way less power than most people think to reach ridiculous sound pressure.

 

[Mctaff]

I’ve only ever bought hifi kit based on sound quality… I’ve never yet come across a decent system that isn’t loud enough

Buying based on power output seems bizarre to me, but I guess people are quite bizarre

 

[Jonhklee]

Me hoooman. More wattage. more horse power. We are such a primitive bunch…

 

[dgrace]

Extra wattage gives you electrical headroom so that your sine waves don’t become square waves. At very low frequencies you need to move a lot of air to generate the same SPL. Yeah a fire alarm can generate 90dB at 10w bur that’s not what I want to listen to all day.

 

[FederGigant]

The respective woofer also has way more membrane area and a way stronger magnet system. A normal 8 inch woofer would generate 85db at 1W measured from 1 meter of distance. So 4W for 91db. In a car application you also don’t lose sound pressure due to the omnidirectional behavior of low frequencies, because the cabin is very small anyways.
You are right with the headroom thing if you listen to classic music with a high dynamic range. But that probably doesn’t account for most people here. Modern bass heavy music typically has no dynamic at all.
Btw a horn driven siren requires around 0.1 W for 90Db.

 

[emiraspain]

Wow..... I am NOOOOO audiofile at all, but this thread is the most confusing of all. Many people who seem to know an awful lot, but at the same time virtually no agreement between them; no wonder Kef couldn't get it right...

For my 2 pennies worth, and thats about the real value of it, I have had an amazing in car system and the speakers were not at ear height, in fact, I have never ever had a car with speakers at ear height, but I guess in a rangerover or SUV or SL this may well exist. I do not think that is the reason the sound is so poor, not even for 10% of it.....

I would expect a large speaker in the base of the door and another one close to where you have the door opening handle, the tweeter, right? Obviously speakers behind and then maybe in the A pillar, which we dont seem to have, and if you are lucky, and I was, a central speaker on the dash, which I dont think the Emira has either....

However, I think we can go over this topic for years, and we will not get anywhere or change anything, but hopefully @Eagle7 he will get a response this week from the technical department at Kef and they will:

1. give us the exact speaker / amp / system specs which I've not seen, only for the Eletre
2. they will maybe be able to shed some light on all the doubts we seem to have
3. they will be able to explain the strange settings one person has had to put in to be able to get a better sound
4. maybe, and hopefully, they will get into an EMIRA and test it for themselves and get back to us/lotus

Perhaps if a future UK customer is relatively close to their factory, they can book an appt and I would think Kef would agree to do a little bit of testing.......? Maidstone , England.... anyone? An email exchange is only going to go so far, we really need a Kef engineer in a car and to say, ohhh thats kind of crap, whats going on here, or thats brilliant, thats the way it should be... good bye.

lets see, but it does need sorting as much as discussing...

 

[Leonard]

Not sure if posted before, bit there is a little piece about KEF/Lotus partnership on the KEF site

KEF x Lotus Partnership

View KEF's wireless HiFi audio system speakers. Drawing on decades of acoustic expertise, each provides outstanding clarity with several connectivity options.

uk.kef.com

 

[emiraspain]

Not sure if posted before, bit there is a little piece about KEF/Lotus partnership on the KEF site

KEF x Lotus Partnership

View KEF's wireless HiFi audio system speakers. Drawing on decades of acoustic expertise, each provides outstanding clarity with several connectivity options.

uk.kef.com

but i think they really concentrate on the big one...the eletre..
I have found virtually nothing about the specifics of the emira.
No matter what, there seems to be enough disappointment in it that they should look at it//// for our sake and theirs.
Im sure in the eletre its perhaps amazing.... but I doubt I will be driving one of them any time soon or not soon

 

[FederGigant]

Wow..... I am NOOOOO audiofile at all, but this thread is the most confusing of all. Many people who seem to know an awful lot, but at the same time virtually no agreement between them; no wonder Kef couldn't get it right...

For my 2 pennies worth, and thats about the real value of it, I have had an amazing in car system and the speakers were not at ear height, in fact, I have never ever had a car with speakers at ear height, but I guess in a rangerover or SUV or SL this may well exist. I do not think that is the reason the sound is so poor, not even for 10% of it.....

I would expect a large speaker in the base of the door and another one close to where you have the door opening handle, the tweeter, right? Obviously speakers behind and then maybe in the A pillar, which we dont seem to have, and if you are lucky, and I was, a central speaker on the dash, which I dont think the Emira has either....

However, I think we can go over this topic for years, and we will not get anywhere or change anything, but hopefully @Eagle7 he will get a response this week from the technical department at Kef and they will:

1. give us the exact speaker / amp / system specs which I've not seen, only for the Eletre
2. they will maybe be able to shed some light on all the doubts we seem to have
3. they will be able to explain the strange settings one person has had to put in to be able to get a better sound
4. maybe, and hopefully, they will get into an EMIRA and test it for themselves and get back to us/lotus

Perhaps if a future UK customer is relatively close to their factory, they can book an appt and I would think Kef would agree to do a little bit of testing.......? Maidstone , England.... anyone? An email exchange is only going to go so far, we really need a Kef engineer in a car and to say, ohhh thats kind of crap, whats going on here, or thats brilliant, thats the way it should be... good bye.

lets see, but it does need sorting as much as discussing...

The Setup is well known: 3 Uni-Qs left, right and center. They are 2 way speakers in their own right. Then two woofers in the lower area behind the seats and two subwoofer drivers inside a single fresh air subwoofer „enclosure“ somewhere in the right back of the car. You can see that from the first post in this thread
As I already said, a very good Setup Hardware wise, just with some oddly placed Uni-Qs, however that’s not an issue as it seems. It also has more than enough power to go very loud, if we believe in the spec sheet and if the software isn‘t limiting the power output, which it obviously seems to do for whatever reason.

 

[emiraspain]

The Setup is well known: 3 Uni-Qs left, right and center. They are 2 way speakers in their own right. Then two woofers in the lower area behind the seats and two subwoofer drivers inside a single fresh air subwoofer „enclosure“ somewhere in the right back of the car. You can see that from the first post in this thread
As I already said, a very good Setup Hardware wise, just with some oddly placed Uni-Qs, however that’s not an issue as it seems. It also has more than enough power to go very loud, if we believe in the spec sheet and if the software isn‘t limiting the power output, which it obviously seems to do for whatever reason.

ok agreed... but then we still dont know why its a let down...
hence, the reason for getting Kef back inside a car and to solve the mystery.....
I dont want a car with a "great" sound system, that doesnt sound great at all... there has to be a solution and Kef have to provide it

 

[shaank]

Hello all. I thought I'd weigh in on this topic since I've done nearly 800 miles in my own Emira now.

The KEF audio isn't bad by any means, lots of negative comments I've read here. I used to be huge into car audio, and as I've got older have stopped replacing and upgrading the cars, but still have a bit of an ear for it.

So comparisons, because that's what is probably most relevant. There's no point talking about how much bass or clarity something has if no one has a reference point.

The HK system in my BMW is louder than this KEF system - however the KEF system has a lot more clarity to it, and better mid range. The sound stage is extremely front centric, which some people will love, but there's very little sound from the rear speakers, this is easily changed in the settings to balance it better. It does lack volume though, but it doesn't distort at high volumes, hence the comment re clarity.

The BOSE system in my Porsche Cayenne is louder, much more bass, and is all round better. This would be expected, it's a larger sound stage, with bigger subs and bigger speakers. So it's hardly a surprise. But the clarity is on par, if not slightly better, in the KEF in the mid range.

One interesting thing to note is the source material. The radio quality is pretty poor / lacks bass / lacks volume. Hook up to your phone however, stream something on spotify or downloaded material from your phone and the system comes into it's own. So don't go sit in a demo car and put the radio on, you'll be unimpressed. Get your fav album on Spotify, hook the phone up, and go from there.

Just an actual owner's thoughts on the KEF setup Take as you wish.

 

[Leonard]

ok agreed... but then we still dont know why its a let down...
hence, the reason for getting Kef back inside a car and to solve the mystery.....
I dont want a car with a "great" sound system, that doesnt sound great at all... there has to be a solution and Kef have to provide it

The awkward bit will be "yes we can sort that for you, you need this £600 amp that Lotus wouldnt spec due to weight/costs/supply"

- Err but I've already paid for a premium system?

And hence it probably won't get sorted unless Lotus admit its an actual issue and stump up the cash to make it right.

 

[CDM1855]

Strange the radio quality is lacking. But saying that, the KEF LSX I have at home lack volume unless you use Spotify though the kef stream app.

Then they become a completely different pair of speakers, with more clarity

 

[Leonard]

Hello all. I thought I'd weigh in on this topic since I've done nearly 800 miles in my own Emira now.

The KEF audio isn't bad by any means, lots of negative comments I've read here. I used to be huge into car audio, and as I've got older have stopped replacing and upgrading the cars, but still have a bit of an ear for it.

So comparisons, because that's what is probably most relevant. There's no point talking about how much bass or clarity something has if no one has a reference point.

The HK system in my BMW is louder than this KEF system - however the KEF system has a lot more clarity to it, and better mid range. The sound stage is extremely front centric, which some people will love, but there's very little sound from the rear speakers, this is easily changed in the settings to balance it better. It does lack volume though, but it doesn't distort at high volumes, hence the comment re clarity.

The BOSE system in my Porsche Cayenne is louder, much more bass, and is all round better. This would be expected, it's a larger sound stage, with bigger subs and bigger speakers. So it's hardly a surprise. But the clarity is on par, if not slightly better, in the KEF in the mid range.

One interesting thing to note is the source material. The radio quality is pretty poor / lacks bass / lacks volume. Hook up to your phone however, stream something on spotify or downloaded material from your phone and the system comes into it's own. So don't go sit in a demo car and put the radio on, you'll be unimpressed. Get your fav album on Spotify, hook the phone up, and go from there.

Just an actual owner's thoughts on the KEF setup Take as you wish.

That's useful as I think most folk will just be turning on the radio on test drives due to time limitations.
I will make effort to hook up to highest quality Spotify streaming next week

 

[shaank]

Exactly that, it'll be the software codec that decodes it on the radio is obviously different - and something as a result that could be patched if need be. I'm not disappointed by the setup, it works, just as I say it's not as loud as other systems I own and the radio is pretty pants (pretty pants is scottish slang for not great, in case anyone from around the world is wondering why nice panties are being used as a comparison)

 

[SweptVolume]

That's useful as I think most folk will just be turning on the radio on test drives due to time limitations.
I will make effort to hook up to highest quality Spotify streaming next week

Take a cable with you... CarPlay/Android Auto initially need a cable connection to then go wireless. But what @shaank says is exactly what I said a few pages back after my test drive. (I also happen to have specced HY with no upper black pack (although black wheels and Alcantara interior)

 

[scoates]

I've only listened to the stereo for maybe 20 mins so far, and had a bit of a play about with the equaliser and so far it is the best system I have in any of my cars. It is a pretty low bar and I'm no major audiophile but at the volumes I listen it is definitely clearer and more powerful than the JBL in my Supra and the GR Yaris and GT86 base systems. Like I said, it's a low bar, but I'm very happy with how it sounds to me at least.

EDIT: Listening through Android Auto on Spotify, alcantara interior.

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

Take a cable with you... CarPlay/Android Auto initially need a cable connection to then go wireless. But what @shaank says is exactly what I said a few pages back after my test drive. (I also happen to have specced HY with no upper black pack (although black wheels and Alcantara interior)

No need for cable. Connect to Apple car play via Bluetooth from your phone