Quick U.S. Update

[XavierNu]

Nope; many Lotus dealers have and will honor MSRP.

I personally don't (nor should anyone else) tolerate ADM. Doesn't matter if it's a $1 or $15,000.

Doing business with integrity goes a long way.

That comment cheese made sound quite "sales-ish" almost like something a SHADY sales dealer from US LOTUS taking your deposit allocation and marking it up would say. Sales or not, trying to convince others that is "okay" and "normal" practice out of dealership control is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as just creating an account to comment on how "normal" ADM is. smh...

 

[CheeseWhiz]

That comment cheese made sound quite "sales-ish" almost like something a SHADY sales dealer from US LOTUS taking your deposit allocation and marking it up would say. Sales or not, trying to convince others that is "okay" and "normal" practice out of dealership control is ridiculous. Almost as ridiculous as just creating an account to comment on how "normal" ADM is. smh...

I promise I do not work for a dealership. I purposely did not write the dealership to prevent this sort of thing. My point was simply that if you go to any dealership in our country right now and try to buy a car, there are dealer adjustments to pricing. I would also prefer if there were not, but unfortunately, that is not the time we are living in at the moment. I don’t want anyone to lose out on their dream car because of something that is occurring everywhere right now, with no end in sight. I don’t want to go against the grain so to speak, because I look forward to being an Emira owner on these forums with many of you going forward. This is just my opinion!

 

[XavierNu]

I promise I do not work for a dealership. I purposely did not write the dealership to prevent this sort of thing. My point was simply that if you go to any dealership in our country right now and try to buy a car, there are dealer adjustments to pricing. I would also prefer if there were not, but unfortunately, that is not the time we are living in at the moment. I don’t want anyone to lose out on their dream car because of something that is occurring everywhere right now, with no end in sight. I don’t want to go against the grain so to speak, because I look forward to being an Emira owner on these forums with many of you going forward. This is just my opinion!

There are depositors that were also PrOmiSEd no ADM and we all know how that went.

 

[CheeseWhiz]

There are depositors that were also PrOmiSEd no ADM and we all know how that went.

I do not have an argument against that. I was not one of them.

 

[CHEESE]

That’s a nice ride! I was thinking about a new C8- Z06 red convertible like the add…

Just saw a C8 Z06 convertible in a red metallic last weekend (it was at a manufacturer car show). By far one of the nicest cars I've ever seen; absolutely incredible... surprisingly wayyyy nicer than the standard C8. I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Just saw a C8 Z06 convertible in a red metallic last weekend (it was at a manufacturer car show). By far one of the nicest cars I've ever seen; absolutely incredible... surprisingly wayyyy nicer than the standard C8. I was pleasantly surprised.

Haven't seen one in person. How wide are they?

 

[vdr]

I promise I do not work for a dealership. I purposely did not write the dealership to prevent this sort of thing. My point was simply that if you go to any dealership in our country right now and try to buy a car, there are dealer adjustments to pricing. I would also prefer if there were not, but unfortunately, that is not the time we are living in at the moment. I don’t want anyone to lose out on their dream car because of something that is occurring everywhere right now, with no end in sight. I don’t want to go against the grain so to speak, because I look forward to being an Emira owner on these forums with many of you going forward. This is just my opinion!

You're painting with a broad brush as that's absolutely not true. There's many dealers of high end autos willing to take your order at MSRP if you submit a build and wait for delivery.

 

[Climber]

Just saw a C8 Z06 convertible in a red metallic last weekend (it was at a manufacturer car show). By far one of the nicest cars I've ever seen; absolutely incredible... surprisingly wayyyy nicer than the standard C8. I was pleasantly surprised.

Shit you shouldn’t say that that’s the car I’ll get if I don’t get the Emira.
Emira Beautiful curves, arresting beauty.
C8-Z06 Convertible most powerful V8 in the world!
I am a sucker for beautiful curves and uniqueness exclusivity! Emira
?? Which one would you get, and why?

 

[TomE]

I promise I do not work for a dealership. I purposely did not write the dealership to prevent this sort of thing. My point was simply that if you go to any dealership in our country right now and try to buy a car, there are dealer adjustments to pricing. I would also prefer if there were not, but unfortunately, that is not the time we are living in at the moment. I don’t want anyone to lose out on their dream car because of something that is occurring everywhere right now, with no end in sight. I don’t want to go against the grain so to speak, because I look forward to being an Emira owner on these forums with many of you going forward. This is just my opinion!

As far as I'm aware, these dealer adjustments are exactly that - adjustments by the dealer. None of the markup they impose goes back to the manufacturer, it all goes straight to the dealer. It's nothing to do with inflation on the price of the car, which might happen at some point.

Watching from outside the US, it looks like greed and profiteering at the expense of deposit holders who placed early deposits. It can't be good for customers or for the manufacturer.

I suppose there's a counter argument that when supply is greater than demand then dealers have to discount. So this is just the boot on the other foot. The difference is many deposits were placed by people who thought they knew what price the car was being sold at.

 

[darkling]

Remember the slapping have begun chevy ford and kia hyundai have threatened dealer allocation for markup and list manipulations. as for the c8 zo6 is 3,6 wider then the c8 the engine brakes and wheels are different.

 

[Pegasi]

I suppose there's a counter argument that when supply is greater than demand then dealers have to discount. So this is just the boot on the other foot. The difference is many deposits were placed by people who thought they knew what price the car was being sold at.

I hate to be a bad guy in this discussion but I thought the free market is a good thing. Of course I don't want to pay an ADM but if a dealer can charge this and find a customer I am not so sure I have a problem with this. It is what it is. I wanted a GT350R but the dealer had a 15K ADM on it. I regretted walking away for almost a year until the Emira came out because no other car interested me. My dealer promised I would pay MSRP but I am not holding my breath. Doesn't this actually speak positive for the future value of the car. To me it's almost like a vehicle auction where the car sells to the highest bidder.

I am honestly wondering what's wrong with this other than a higher price? Until you have a contract the price is not set. Lastly, there isn't an outrage when we get discounts on cars for whatever reason.

 

[TomE]

I hate to be a bad guy in this discussion but I thought the free market is a good thing. Of course I don't want to pay an ADM but if a dealer can charge this and find a customer I am not so sure I have a problem with this. It is what it is. I wanted a GT350R but the dealer had a 15K ADM on it. I regretted walking away for almost a year until the Emira came out because no other car interested me. My dealer promised I would pay MSRP but I am not holding my breath. Doesn't this actually speak positive for the future value of the car. To me it's almost like a vehicle auction where the car sells to the highest bidder.

I am honestly wondering what's wrong with this other than a higher price? Until you have a contract the price is not set. Lastly, there isn't an outrage when we get discounts on cars for whatever reason.

I know what you mean. I think the issue is where customers felt placing a deposit meant they had secured a car at a certain price, but are now being told pay more or lose the spot.

It’s not really a free market if that customer is now 6-9 months down the process and can’t shop around with another dealer without falling to the back of the queue. That feels like dealers taking advantage solely for their own benefit.

 

[XavierNu]

I know what you mean. I think the issue is where customers felt placing a deposit meant they had secured a car at a certain price, but are now being told pay more or lose the spot.

It’s not really a free market if that customer is now 6-9 months down the process and can’t shop around with another dealer without falling to the back of the queue. That feels like dealers taking advantage solely for their own benefit.

The silver lining is for the new potential buyers doing their homework will know the dealers to avoid and which dealer possess integrity and long term thinking. Word gets around fast in the digital era. Customers want a frictionless process. They do not want to be lied to, misled or taken advantage of.

The biggest problem should be choosing the right color combo and spec.

 

[Pegasi]

I know what you mean. I think the issue is where customers felt placing a deposit meant they had secured a car at a certain price, but are now being told pay more or lose the spot.

It’s not really a free market if that customer is now 6-9 months down the process and can’t shop around with another dealer without falling to the back of the queue. That feels like dealers taking advantage solely for their own benefit.

Length of time to purchase shouldn't be a factor in the free market. Especially since no one was promised a car within a year. Also, the deposit is not a contract nor an obligation to buy. The deposit simply puts you in line to discuss a contract when your time arises. I don't have a problem with dealers taking advantage of a hot market, everyone does it.

 

[Maverick1]

I'm just glad adm is not permitted in Canada, do no worries here.

 

[TomE]

Length of time to purchase shouldn't be a factor in the free market. Especially since no one was promised a car within a year. Also, the deposit is not a contract nor an obligation to buy. The deposit simply puts you in line to discuss a contract when your time arises. I don't have a problem with dealers taking advantage of a hot market, everyone does it.

Only in the US. In Canada and UK and EU dealers aren’t profiteering from early deposit holders and auctioning their slots.

 

[Racer X]

Length of time to purchase shouldn't be a factor in the free market. Especially since no one was promised a car within a year. Also, the deposit is not a contract nor an obligation to buy. The deposit simply puts you in line to discuss a contract when your time arises. I don't have a problem with dealers taking advantage of a hot market, everyone does it.

Those dealerships only stay in business because idiots pay the ADM. As I’ve stated previously, I’d buy a flight across the country and drive back with a car before I’d pay ADM. Most of the dealerships in my area that tack on ADM are American car dealerships. I’d submit that 99.9% of those that paid it ended up losing money- both the ADM and through depreciation. For every Ford GT there are tens of thousands of cars that never gained a dime in value. How these dealerships sucker people into paying that markup is beyond me. An hour drive out of town would save someone thousands.

 

[vdr]

>>The deposit simply puts you in line to discuss a contract when your time arises. I don't have a problem with dealers taking advantage of a hot market, everyone does it.<<

Not "everyone" does it; some dealers do, some don't. I ordered a Pcar last May and negotiated a nearly 8% discount off of MSRP. The car was delayed, and delayed , and delayed again. When I finally took delivery of the vehicle this past January the selling price, as well as interest rates, had both gone up dramatically. At best the car was being sold at MSRP now...... at worst some dealers were charging up to a $20k "market adjustment" on whatever stock they could get their hands on. In my state the dealer could have simply tried to pass that adjustment on to me with little to no recourse outside of returning my deposit. He held firm at the stated price that I negotiated back in May. The same deal that was consummated with a handshake and a $1k deposit for a mid-six figure vehicle. That, to me, is a sign of integrity....

Now... on the other hand, I entered into a written agreement in early/mid July for an Emira at a local dealer that purportedly sold a fair share of Evoras. At the time I was told I was "in the mid-20's" in terms of deposits and I was assured that I would "very likely" be able to place an order sometime in the first qtr. of '22 with delivery by year's end. When I spoke to this dealer in late December he told me he'd be in touch sometime in January to get my final build and enter it into the factory. It's now March and calls are unreturned, emails requesting transparency in regards to allotment are ignored and I haven't a clue as to where I NOW stand in their queue but I've resolved myself to the fact that an FE isn't in my future so I'll wait until the base orders open up. Stories abound as to Lotus dealers that made promises of delivery at MSRP and are now reneging on same and others that are offering up FE builds, that presumably should have gone to early depositors, for an ADM. That, to me, is the opposite of integrity.

IMHO the UK example of deposits was far superior as it appears to simply be a matter of WHEN the order was inputted into their system as opposed to a litany of factors that appear to be a tad "murky"...

 

[Pegasi]

Not "everyone" does it; some dealers do, some don't. I ordered a Pcar last May and negotiated a nearly 8% discount off of MSRP. The car was delayed, and delayed , and delayed again. When I finally took delivery of the vehicle this past January the selling price, as well as interest rates, had both gone up dramatically. At best the car was being sold at MSRP now...... at worst some dealers were charging up to a $20k "market adjustment" on whatever stock they could get their hands on. In my state the dealer could have simply tried to pass that adjustment on to me with little to no recourse outside of returning my deposit. He held firm at the stated price that I negotiated back in May. The same deal that was consummated with a handshake and a $1k deposit for a mid-six figure vehicle. That, to me, is a sign of integrity....

Now... on the other hand, I entered into a written agreement in early/mid July for an Emira at a local dealer that purportedly sold a fair share of Evoras. At the time I was told I was "in the mid-20's" in terms of deposits and I was assured that I would "very likely" be able to place an order sometime in the first qtr. of '22 with delivery by year's end. When I spoke to this dealer in late December he told me he'd be in touch sometime in January to get my final build and enter it into the factory. It's now March and calls are unreturned, emails requesting transparency in regards to allotment are ignored and I haven't a clue as to where I NOW stand in their queue but I've resolved myself to the fact that an FE isn't in my future so I'll wait until the base orders open up. Stories abound as to Lotus dealers that made promises of delivery at MSRP and are now reneging on same and others that are offering up FE builds that presumably should have gone to early depositors for an ADM. That, to me, is the opposite of integrity.

IMHO the UK example of deposits was far superior as it appears to simply be a matter of WHEN the order was inputted into their system as opposed to a litany of factors that appear to be a tad "murky"...

Good post. I should not have said "everyone" does it. I guess this is just about expectations. I expect a car dealer to always try and make as much money as they can. The reason I dug into this thread was about yours and other statements of integrity, greed etc. Me personally, I don't expect any price until I have a purchase contract. Until then I just hope. My earlier post mentioned I walked away from a GT350R with a 15K ADM. That car was lime green! The dealer said it was the only one for sale in the southeast at the time. Its very likely that someone paid that ADM and they are bragging about paying an extra 15K to get that lime green color.

There are people out there with money and who like to spend it and they like to brag and I do not judge. My simple point is that the dealers understand that market and they are simply responding.

 

[xen]

Have to say I agree with @Pegasi here. In principle If you are comfortable purchasing at discounts to MSRP you can’t take the moral high ground when premiums are asked.

How many people were up in arms being offered discounts and instead insisted on paying full MSRP on principle. Some dealers may choose not to but its a bit rich to call the ones that do greedy.

If you ran a business and could get better value for your product you’d be silly not to. Look at the used car market, the same vitriol isn’t being directed at owners of in-demand cars who are listing their cars for more than they paid for them. If it’s ok to ask more for your cars then it should be ok for dealers to do the same.

P.S. This refers to the principle, not instances where dealers lie, mislead or bait-and-switch customers.