Redline

[LotusRising]

One of the consistent criticisms is that the engine cuts off quicker than competitor engines and you lose the drama of that last thousand RPMs. Can anyone enlighten me on why lotus couldn’t run it up higher with this power unit?

 

[VL3X]

One of the consistent criticisms is that the engine cuts off quicker than competitor engines and you lose the drama of that last thousand RPMs. Can anyone enlighten me on why lotus couldn’t run it up higher with this power unit?

They can but didn't "due to emissions," or so we're told. They're just keeping the V6 redline at 6800 for now until a future GT or sportier version comes out and then they'll simply bump the redline to ~7200 and claim it has more power.

 

[Eagle7]

If they're allowed to use an electric car to count as part of their fleet average, then when the Eletre goes into production that could lower the emissions requirements the Emira has to pass, and may allow them to increase the rpm and power. At this point though, with the order book already as deep as it is, they may have a challenge simply filling orders as-is. Now that we've seen production customer cars, they're simply gorgeous. I can only imagine what the orders are going to be once people are seeing these out on the street.

 

[Lotustoronto]

One of the consistent criticisms is that the engine cuts off quicker than competitor engines and you lose the drama of that last thousand RPMs. Can anyone enlighten me on why lotus couldn’t run it up higher with this power unit?

I have internally debated with myself on if it would be worth waiting for the final/gt edition V6. I agree with @Eagle7 , depending on orders it may never materialize. Especially being pretty much a year delayed from where they originally wanted to be at. I think ordering the base with has many light weight options and sport suspension, and then getting a tune to bring it to the 430 BHP and higher redline. (Jubu / Komotec ) is the option I will be going with. Some good ideas in the lightweight thread

Emira weight saving

The 2GR is a great engine. It's low on torque and that supercharger isn't the best. It's reliable power, but not gonna throw you back into the seat. I'm seriously considering throwing my warranty right out the window for a built trans, upgraded supercharger, tune, and some KW V3s. Just gotta...

www.emiraforum.com

 

[LotusRising]

If they're allowed to use an electric car to count as part of their fleet average, then when the Eletre goes into production that could lower the emissions requirements the Emira has to pass, and may allow them to increase the rpm and power. At this point though, with the order book already as deep as it is, they may have a challenge simply filling orders as-is. Now that we've seen production customer cars, they're simply gorgeous. I can only imagine what the orders are going to be once people are seeing these out on the street.

So does raising the redline directly lead to more emissions or do the changes that need to be done to the car to raise it to that redline raise the emissions?

How high could this power unit rev to? Is it limited by the engine block itself, the supercharger, friction?

 

[CHEESE]

Stop worrying about the redline. The number is completely arbitrary/meaningless relative to other cars without the contexts of torque curves, transmission gearing, etc.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Look up info on the Evora GT430 Cup. Anything you find engine related should be able to be achieved in the Emira. But yes reducing redline / power should in theory reduce emmissions.

 

[TomE]

The Evora GT410 (US GT) and GT430 applications of the supercharged Toyota V6 all have a max redline of 7200rpm in Sport, 7000rpm in Tour drive mode. So yes the engine can rev a little more.

Lotus have had it running at 450hp on the bench but don't want to warranty it at that output. Komotec have upgraded it to 450, 475 and 500hp but it's expensive.

 

[Eagle7]

So does raising the redline directly lead to more emissions or do the changes that need to be done to the car to raise it to that redline raise the emissions?

How high could this power unit rev to? Is it limited by the engine block itself, the supercharger, friction?

The thing is, the increase in power is only at those last 200 rpms at the top of the range. For a car that weighs just over 3,000 lbs, another 16 hp at the top of the rpm range isn't going to make any noticeable difference on the street. On the track, yes, for lap times. Another 30 hp you would notice on the street, but what a lot of people think of as power is really the torque pushing you back in your seat. You can gain that effect in other ways besides increasing the power output of the engine.

Increasing power output increases heat, and that's much more of a problem in a mid-engine car than a front engine car. You can increase the perceived torque through changing the gearing ratios. A close ratio gear set will allow for faster acceleration, but at the cost of top end speed. However if you don't plan on going 180 mph in your Emira, losing some of that at the top end is a worthwhile tradeoff for better performance at the low end. Because of the number of Emiras that are going to be built, we may see more options in that area.

Reducing drivetrain loss can improve acceleration power without increasing engine power. An intelligent reduction of weight in the right places can improve acceleration, especially if you combine weight reduction, with drivetrain loss reduction and changing the gear ratios. The car will accelerate and respond much quicker than stock, without increasing the horsepower, or causing heat issues.

 

[emiraspain]

I have internally debated with myself on if it would be worth waiting for the final/gt edition V6. I agree with @Eagle7 , depending on orders it may never materialize. Especially being pretty much a year delayed from where they originally wanted to be at. I think ordering the base with has many light weight options and sport suspension, and then getting a tune to bring it to the 430 BHP and higher redline. (Jubu / Komotec ) is the option I will be going with. Some good ideas in the lightweight thread

Emira weight saving

The 2GR is a great engine. It's low on torque and that supercharger isn't the best. It's reliable power, but not gonna throw you back into the seat. I'm seriously considering throwing my warranty right out the window for a built trans, upgraded supercharger, tune, and some KW V3s. Just gotta...

www.emiraforum.com

I clearly dont know, as I dont know much of anything, but I would be guessing the GT edition is probably already engineered, as they have had a lot of time, it is very much related to the Evora 430 as you say and they have been pretty quick to get the GT4 out there already.
Lets be honest, the "gt" version would not take much work so I would be 90% it will come and probably much sooner than people are thinking. I'd say it will be announced next year, hence released in 2039...par for the course, but seriously it will be out in 2023 I am sure, I am willing to wager on it!
However, will another 30 HP and another 400 rpm make all the difference, and worth waiting another 18 months for? I dont think so, not unless you like spoilers and spoiler alert, I certainly dont . GT3 Touring all the way........... RS = Really Stupid
You can also buy credits for emissions, telsa sells them all the time.... not sure if brexit has screwed that up or not. The AMG may also compensate and allow a more CO2 contaminating, planet ruining V6 to be made and after all, unlike the FE, the gt will surely surely, not so sure, be limited, so should not be a problem.

For what its worth, back in Spain now, thats my lot..... My IONIC 5, slept in it, was great and a relatively easy 1200 odd miles....

 

[Lotustoronto]

Ya I thought about the final V6 having a GT4 wing on the back, not a fan of that look. Even if it is better on track.

 

[Pegasi]

I clearly dont know, as I dont know much of anything, but I would be guessing the GT edition is probably already engineered, as they have had a lot of time, it is very much related to the Evora 430 as you say and they have been pretty quick to get the GT4 out there already.

This is my guess as well. A few other threads talked about how the V6 supply will run out but my opinion is that they have already set aside a few hundred blocks to deliver the GT.

 

[Pegasi]

Stop worrying about the redline. The number is completely arbitrary/meaningless relative to other cars without the contexts of torque curves, transmission gearing, etc.

Totally agree.

 

[Mistral]

If you've competed, perhaps some of you have, on track or on special stage, you'll know that there's only a handful of people who can absolutely wring the best out of a car, whether it has 300 or 400 bhp. On the road there are even less people who can do it safely, given the restrictions now in place. Of course, you should have whatever you're prepared to pay for, but don't be too wrapped up in absolute power output because, unless you're Verstappen or Leclerc, or Palou or Herta, it's not going to make a huge difference. You'd be far better focussing on seating position and braking performance as well as improving your own driving effectiveness .

 

[TomE]

I agree with most of that. But I’m also concerned about the comments from some reviewers who imply the throttle response profile means it’s rather too easy to hit the rev limiter before realising you need to upchange.

I’m sure it’s something you’ll get used to, but if it feels like it needs a bit more rev range it’s going to be distracting. It’s not the power I’m concerned about, it’s the driveability.

 

[Mistral]

Agreed. Driveability is the most important element but we should also be able to use the rev counter and our ears, in conjunction with the linear torque to maximise performance. Maximum revs in every gear doesn't necessarily result in the best performance. On the road, with a torquey engine, I tend to find it less frenetic to change up before hitting the limiter.

 

[IanO]

I clearly dont know, as I dont know much of anything, but I would be guessing the GT edition is probably already engineered, as they have had a lot of time, it is very much related to the Evora 430 as you say and they have been pretty quick to get the GT4 out there already.
Lets be honest, the "gt" version would not take much work so I would be 90% it will come and probably much sooner than people are thinking. I'd say it will be announced next year, hence released in 2039...par for the course, but seriously it will be out in 2023 I am sure, I am willing to wager on it!
However, will another 30 HP and another 400 rpm make all the difference, and worth waiting another 18 months for? I dont think so, not unless you like spoilers and spoiler alert, I certainly dont . GT3 Touring all the way........... RS = Really Stupid
You can also buy credits for emissions, telsa sells them all the time.... not sure if brexit has screwed that up or not. The AMG may also compensate and allow a more CO2 contaminating, planet ruining V6 to be made and after all, unlike the FE, the gt will surely surely, not so sure, be limited, so should not be a problem.

For what its worth, back in Spain now, thats my lot..... My IONIC 5, slept in it, was great and a relatively easy 1200 odd miles....

Manufacturers can buy credits for CO2 emissions from other companies but having a higher rev limit will not affect the CO2. The power limiting issue is more likely to be due to the lower Carbon Monoxide of Euro 6d legislation requiring gas engines to run closer to lambda 1 at full load. This doesn’t normally require the rev limit to be lower but the power will likely drop quickly after peak power. The 430hp of the Evora on Euro 6 emissions may not be achievable with Euro 6d.

US legislation is less restrictive so the forum members in the other side of the ocean may have better luck with a high power variant but given the relatively short life of the V6 I would guess it is more likely to happen with the I4.

 

[LotusRising]

Stop worrying about the redline. The number is completely arbitrary/meaningless relative to other cars without the contexts of torque curves, transmission gearing, etc.

It seems to be an issue because almost every reviewer brings up the red line as a point of demerit (Second only to the finicky gearbox). They all say it seems to run out of breath too soon and another 500 to 1000 RPMs would increase the drama on par with the Porsche which spins to 8k. I understand it has very little to do with my driving capabilities or the horsepower produced. This is more of an aesthetic concern (and let’s not kid ourselves the emotion is the reason to own these cars otherwise we’d all be in minivans) but one that is brought up frequently. I was just curious about the technical limitations of this specific power unit that might not allow it to rev as high as its competitors.

 

[IanO]

The key issue for this age of engine is likely to be the temperature limits on the pistons, head and exhaust manifold, the more power you are producing the higher the component temperatures. If these limits are raised the next would be the inertial forces on the moving components, which increase with the square of the speed so they get higher quite quickly. It will also get to the valve train limits when the valve springs aren’t strong enough to overcome the increased valve inertia and the valves don’t close.

 

[Mistral]

The key issue for this age of engine is likely to be the temperature limits on the pistons, head and exhaust manifold, the more power you are producing the higher the component temperatures. If these limits are raised the next would be the inertial forces on the moving components, which increase with the square of the speed so they get higher quite quickly. It will also get to the valve train limits when the valve springs aren’t strong enough to overcome the increased valve inertia and the valves don’t close.

Time to change to desmodromic or pneumatic then!