Seatbelts jammed

[Eagle7]

For clarity: when stating that seatbelt failed I am referring to that it was completely non functional.
I was repeatedly told by Lotus that the initial replacement seatbelts would be an uprated part (I probably posted as much elsewhere when I highlighted the problem). However It turns out this was a ‘miss communication”. After one of the replacements failed in exactly the same way I was told the issue was actually caused by the seatbelts being incorrectly installed. According to Lotus the belt was installed on the wrong side of the car because “there is no clear way knowing from visual inspection” which side they go on - their words. So the issue was not down to a defective part.
My only reason for raising was to this was to highlight that having a twisted belt appears to mean it is correctly installed. In my experience if the belt sits flush it is actually fitted on the wrong side of the car. Although that assumes the twists are the same as I have.
View attachment 21935

My previous assumption was that the seatbelt was installed correctly, and from your picture it doesn't appear that it is. If the end inside the B pillar has to be installed in the orientation in the photo, then that belt should be on the other side of the car. In order for the belt to lay properly in the photo, the top would have to be rotated 180° clockwise so the belt would lay flat across your body and not twist like that.

Lotus saying there's no way from visual inspection to tell which side they go on isn't true. You can tell by which direction the blade points. Coming up out of the B pillar and through the loop at the top, with the belt flat, the blade should be pointing inward towards the middle of the car. You shouldn't have to twist it around like it is in your photo.

Look at the photo below. On the right side of the photo, the belt coming up out of the B pillar is flat, and note the direction the blade is pointing. This belt is installed correctly on the correct side.

On page 30 of their own manual, it shows the way the belt is supposed to lay across the drawing of the woman, and it also clearly states in the first warning that the belt is not supposed to be twisted.

 

[Twin Cam]

Seem to remember on many past cars either a green or black sticker on the top bracket differentiated which hand it was.
Actually I think it was red and green as in starboard and port, universally recognised, and probably far too easy a solution

 

[FederGigant]

Maybe the supplier is from continental Europe and they labeled it „drivers side“.

 

[Eagle7]

Here's another very clear picture of the full belt correctly installed on the correct side of the car. Flat coming up out of the B Pillar, flat all the way down to the seat, and the blade pointing towards the seat.

 

[Eagle7]

This is something that somebody there with connections needs to let Lotus know. Honestly, it's probably one of those things that unless you're specifically looking for it, it wouldn't cross your mind to even notice it unless you were having trouble with the belt.

This is one of those things that would require a costly recall notice from Lotus to all owners and dealers who have cars, to have them checked and make sure the belts are installed correctly. If not, then it's an expense on Lotus to have them removed and correctly installed. Best to do it now before they have too many cars out in circulation.

 

[Eagle7]

Not wishing to jinx it and I've been wrong before ... but a very reliable source at Hethel has said 80 autos have been scheduled into build for February and March. These are for several markets, not just UK. So first deliveries could be March/April.

Let them know they have a seat belt installation issue. See this thread: https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/seatbelts-jammed.2553/

I posted a couple of pictures showing belts installed correctly compared to the incorrect installation in the photo the OP posted. It's something Lotus needs to add to their QC checklist.

 

[NicolasB]

Seatbelts are sensitive to their orientation, so they can correctly sense the forces of stopping quickly. If they are in the wrong side of a car, or turned at a different angle, it would make them not function properly.

But seriously, these people have been making cars for decades, how are seatbelts, a very simple and old technology, giving them such trouble?

 

[Lots_Of_Trouble]

My passenger has claimed that the seat belt won't pull out much for her either, looks like another issue to be looked at for mine..... the car I mean,not the wife

 

[Wolfram]

... why is there even a discussion with Lotus about this? The seatbelt in duff's photo is not fitted correctly. The seat belts in Eagle7's photos are fitted correctly. It is not a matter for conjecture. Tens of millions of cars are manufactured every year; every one of them is fitted with at least two seat belts, and those seat belts are a common design with a correct fitment. Without a twist.

 

[Jonhklee]

Seatbelts, lotus should not have got this wrong..

 

[dgrace]

How a company with access to the entire Volvo parts catalog manages to screw up (literally!) seatbelts is mindblowing.

 

[Wolfram]

According to Lotus the belt was installed on the wrong side of the car because “there is no clear way knowing from visual inspection” which side they go on - their words.

... Really? Words fail me...

In all seriousness, if this is Lotus' attitude towards one of the critical safety features of their cars, which other parts have not been screwed on correctly because "to be honest, we have no idea which way round it's supposed to go by looking at it".

 

[TomE]

Let them know they have a seat belt installation issue. See this thread: https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/seatbelts-jammed.2553/

I posted a couple of pictures showing belts installed correctly compared to the incorrect installation in the photo the OP posted. It's something Lotus needs to add to their QC checklist.

Hi, I know about the issue and Lotus do too. I created the thread today to split it out from other topics. I had discussions with duff behind the scenes when his problem first happened and we’d already escalated it to Lotus senior management before he rejected the car.

As you know, Lotus don’t act on suggestions we make either in posts here or behind the scenes.

Field reports about specific issues on specific cars from owners via dealers and direct to Customer Care are the most effective channel.

 

[ChrisJ]

My passenger has claimed that the seat belt won't pull out much for her either, looks like another issue to be looked at for mine..... the car I mean,not the wife

If it's any help my test drive Emira (Exeter) ... the passenger belt would not pull out unless the parking brake was off (and possibly the car moving). Seemed strange to me for those factors to be linked.

 

[Porter]

The twist vs. non twist thing has nothing to do with the side of the car the belt is installed on. In both cases it's coming down flat from a top pivot and bolts directly to the side of the seat frame.

The twist is an installation issue in the factory, and it has nothing to do with the Left vs Right side. The metal mounting tab at the bottom of the belt is not "handed" left or right. See:

The issue that @duff is experiencing is a different one, related to the tensioning mechanism, and could very well be a left-vs-right install issue for the retracting/tensioning unit, but it almost certainly doesn't have anything to do with the seat belt webbing being twisted out past the upper B-pillar bracket. Seat belt tensioner function simply doesn't depend on the belt laying in a certain orientation at the fastener end.

Here's how the tensioner mechanism mounts to the car:

What might be at play for @duff is an issue with the wiring harness connector where it plugs into the tensioner mechanism. I don't know what the failure mode is for the belt operation if electrical fails (or is unplugged)... it could be "ratchet retract and hold". Or it could be some other kind of electrical gremlin.

 

[Eagle7]

The twist vs. non twist thing has nothing to do with the side of the car the belt is installed on. In both cases it's coming down flat from a top pivot and bolts directly to the side of the seat frame.

The twist is an installation issue in the factory, and it has nothing to do with the Left vs Right side. The metal mounting tab at the bottom of the belt is not "handed" left or right. See:
View attachment 21964

The issue that @duff is experiencing is a different one, related to the tensioning mechanism, and could very well be a left-vs-right install issue for the retracting/tensioning unit, but it almost certainly doesn't have anything to do with the seat belt webbing being twisted out past the upper B-pillar bracket. Seat belt tensioner function simply doesn't depend on the belt laying in a certain orientation at the fastener end.

Here's how the tensioner mechanism mounts to the car:
View attachment 21966

What might be at play for @duff is an issue with the wiring harness connector where it plugs into the tensioner mechanism. I don't know what the failure mode is for the belt operation if electrical fails (or is unplugged)... it could be "ratchet retract and hold". Or it could be some other kind of electrical gremlin.
View attachment 21967

Without having access to detailed images like this, there was no way for me to tell what type of connections the belt has that were hidden. Thank you for posting these.

On the photo of the Seneca car I posted, you can see a short tab that is on the belt at the point where it connects to the seat, and that tab is on the seat side. This would probably be helpful for the people on assembly to know which direction the bottom of the belt goes against the seat, while checking to make sure the belt isn't twisted before bolting it to the seat frame.

 

[Eagle7]

Seatbelts are sensitive to their orientation, so they can correctly sense the forces of stopping quickly. If they are in the wrong side of a car, or turned at a different angle, it would make them not function properly.

But seriously, these people have been making cars for decades, how are seatbelts, a very simple and old technology, giving them such trouble?

Probably because this facility has never produced a car before, and this is the first time this crew has produced a car with this new facility and the systems associated with it. With all the things they've been trying to watch and keep track of, it probably didn't even occur to anyone to check seat belt orientation other than that they were installed.

Just part of the learning curve for a new facility and crew. Fortunately, it's something that easily corrected.

 

[lion shf]

This isn't the fault of Lotus.

am I the only person here who thinks this is hilarious?

 

[Porter]

This isn't the fault of Lotus.

am I the only person here who thinks this is hilarious?

It's not necessarily a production problem with multiple cars. The only car we're aware of that has had this belt "failure" issue is @duff's... and it could literally be a bad connector at the vehicle telemetry controller or something, not at the seat belt units themselves.

The fact that both tensioners are locked in "retract/ratchet" mode indicates to me that some kind of electrical issue is at play, and on a new car that's usually a manufacturing defect with one of the wiring harness connectors. They are assembled by inserting tiny pins into the plastic connector housings, and errors do occur sometimes in component production - and that's not Lotus by the way, but the harness component manufacturer. The fact that replacing the seat belt units didn't solve it makes this sort of scenario even more likely.

 

[Eagle7]

This isn't the fault of Lotus.

am I the only person here who thinks this is hilarious?

Some cars are showing belts correctly installed, and there's a few that aren't. That has to be the difference between shifts and whoever is on the production line. I don't find it particularly hilarious, just another example of teething problems that are to be expected with a new facility and crew.

If you watch the videos of the production line, both Harry's and Shmee's, these cars are complex. I watched the video that @kratedisease posted of the C8 production facility, and what they say is the same for pretty much all vehicle manufacturers today, including Lotus. Today's cars are seriously complex, and it takes qualified people on the line to make sure they're assembled correctly. For the C8, it even goes so far as making sure the SAME person is at a particular station each shift, because the understanding and mental focus necessary to do it right at that station is so critical, any mistakes there cause huge issues down the line.

Lotus is going to get this figured out, but in the meantime... we have to persevere through the teething problems until they do.