Seatbelts jammed

[TomE]

The Owner Handbook does indicate that the system will lock if the vehicle is tilted, on pg 29.

View attachment 22424

Note: for those not in the flow of this conversation, I'm not saying that this is expected operation. I'm just pointing out something in the Handbook as a data point. So put down your pitchforks.

I understand about it happening under braking and have sometimes found myself at an offset junction having to free off a stuck belt so I can lean forwards to get a decent view. But I've never had a belt locking on a slope before. Seems like an overly-sensitive setup.

 

[Jimblob]

Mine are def quite sensitive.

They can lock when you lean forward to look out at junction, even when you don’t think you’re being particularly quick with your motions.

I’ve had them lock fully once after I’d got out the car and I couldn’t get the belt back on for a few mins…

So far I have it in the minor gremlin box, to be looked at when having its first service.

 

[Porter]

Interesting data point from FB. Apparently it could be the way the belt is spooling, too much slack?

 

[EMIRADILEMMA]

Sorry @TomE if this is the wrong thread to revive this issue on but I am very concerned about the apparent twist in the seatbelts. Saw it in a couple of demo cars and also on pictures posted on this forum. At the bottom of the belts, the tag facing inwards and the "back-side stitch" (the uglier side of the stitching) faces outwards which should logically imply that the side connected to the bottom of the seat is the wrong way round.
Ever since I was made aware of this twist I have been looking at seatbelts in every other car I have been in and NONE, not a single one, have that twist. The twist in the Emira seems to be unique and since I have never owned a Lotus before, is it designed this way, on purpose, for a reason unbeknownst to me?
The reason that this is particularly worrying to me is because of issues like seatbelt jamming, which could or could not be caused by this and other malfunctions. I was going to try to unfit and untwist them myself when I eventually get my car but am worried that Lotus would then void the warranty or absolve themselves from liability if anything happens. If I don't then I guess the only way I'll ever find out if it works properly in a crash is well... too late then isn't it?
Belts are the most basic of safety measures and clarity on this would be greatly appreciated.
edit: older posts indicate that Lotus is aware of this but we are still seeing cars being delivered with twisted seatbelts.

 

[Eagle7]

Sorry @TomE if this is the wrong thread to revive this issue on but I am very concerned about the apparent twist in the seatbelts. Saw it in a couple of demo cars and also on pictures posted on this forum. At the bottom of the belts, the tag facing inwards and the "back-side stitch" (the uglier side of the stitching) faces outwards which should logically imply that the side connected to the bottom of the seat is the wrong way round.
Ever since I was made aware of this twist I have been looking at seatbelts in every other car I have been in and NONE, not a single one, have that twist. The twist in the Emira seems to be unique and since I have never owned a Lotus before, is it designed this way, on purpose, for a reason unbeknownst to me?
The reason that this is particularly worrying to me is because of issues like seatbelt jamming, which could or could not be caused by this and other malfunctions. I was going to try to unfit and untwist them myself when I eventually get my car but am worried that Lotus would then void the warranty or absolve themselves from liability if anything happens. If I don't then I guess the only way I'll ever find out if it works properly in a crash is well... too late then isn't it?
Belts are the most basic of safety measures and clarity on this would be greatly appreciated.
edit: older posts indicate that Lotus is aware of this but we are still seeing cars being delivered with twisted seatbelts.

The thing is, they CAN install these belt assemblies correctly, because there are photos that show them done that way on both sides of the car.

Right side done correctly; belt is flat all the way, no twist, and the cloth tab at the bottom and the blade are pointing towards the seat:

Left side, same thing: belt is flat all the way, no twist, and the cloth tab at the bottom and the blade are pointing towards the seat:

So it CAN be done because somebody there on assembly has done it, which shows it is NOT supposed to be twisted if the belt mechanisms are installed correctly. This isn't just a matter of twisting the belt around at the seat end, because then the blade and cloth tab are now pointing in the wrong direction, away from the seat. The entire assembly has to be installed in the correct orientation starting with the mount inside the side of the car. If it's installed correctly at that mounting point, the blade and cloth tab will be pointing away from the seat, towards the side of the car, so when the installer pulls the mounting plate on the end of the belt up and through the B Pillar, the cloth tab and blade will then be pointing towards the seat and you can attach the mounting plate to the seat.

This picture shows the seat belt mechanism inside this side of the car has been mounted backwards. This assumes they're using the same mechanism for both sides of the car, and it just has to be turned one way or the other before it's installed. If they have TWO different assemblies, then there is definitely one for the right, and one for the left, and the visual clue before installation is the cloth tab and blade should be pointing away from the seat and towards the side of the car.

If ANYONE is doing a tour, PLEASE show them this post with the pictures, so they'll understand what's going on, because somebody there clearly doesn't yet. If the belt has to be twisted to get the blade to point towards the seat, the mechanism inside the side of the car was installed backwards. If there are two different belt assembly part numbers, then there's definitely one for the right side, and one for the left. They cannot be interchanged. Maybe some of you going to Goodwood? Show them this!

 

[EMIRADILEMMA]

The thing is, they CAN install these belt assemblies correctly, because there are photos that show them done that way on both sides of the car.

Right side done correctly; belt is flat all the way, no twist, and the cloth tab at the bottom and the blade are pointing towards the seat:

View attachment 26346

Left side, same thing: belt is flat all the way, no twist, and the cloth tab at the bottom and the blade are pointing towards the seat:

View attachment 26347

So it CAN be done because somebody there on assembly has done it, which shows it is NOT supposed to be twisted if the belt mechanisms are installed correctly. This isn't just a matter of twisting the belt around at the seat end, because then the blade and cloth tab are now pointing in the wrong direction, away from the seat. The entire assembly has to be installed in the correct orientation starting with the mount inside the side of the car. If it's installed correctly at that mounting point, the blade and cloth tab will be pointing away from the seat, towards the side of the car, so when the installer pulls the mounting plate on the end of the belt up and through the B Pillar, the cloth tab and blade will then be pointing towards the seat and you can attach the mounting plate to the seat.

This picture shows the seat belt mechanism inside this side of the car has been mounted backwards. This assumes they're using the same mechanism for both sides of the car, and it just has to be turned one way or the other before it's installed. If they have TWO different assemblies, then there is definitely one for the right, and one for the left, and the visual clue before installation is the cloth tab and blade should be pointing away from the seat and towards the side of the car.

View attachment 26348


If ANYONE is doing a tour, PLEASE show them this post with the pictures, so they'll understand what's going on, because somebody there clearly doesn't yet. If the belt has to be twisted to get the blade to point towards the seat, the mechanism inside the side of the car was installed backwards. If there are two different belt assembly part numbers, then there's definitely one for the right side, and one for the left. They cannot be interchanged. Maybe some of you going to Goodwood? Show them this!

Thanks so much for the extremely detailed illustration @Eagle7! Second your plea to have those going on the factory tour to show these pictures.
Perhaps anyone who has had a very recent delivery could let us know if this is still an ongoing issue?

 

[Hethel Merman]

If they have seat belt pretensioners this would be pretty important to get right.

 

[KJD]

The seatbelts are side-specific.

They have different part numbers and it even says LH and RH on the labels at the bottom.

As is common on this forum, people are getting all excited over not very much.

The belt “twist” isn’t wrong. It’s how Lotus have chosen to install them, for whatever reason.
Every production car I’ve seen has them like this.

Purely cosmetic. They work absolutely fine with the twist.

I chose to turn mine around but it was for aesthetics only.

And I was “warned” not to do it by someone who is still scare-mongering about this non-issue.

 

[vision]

The seatbelts are side-specific.

They have different part numbers and it even says LH and RH on the labels at the bottom.

As is common on this forum, people are getting all excited over not very much.

The belt “twist” isn’t wrong. It’s how Lotus have chosen to install them, for whatever reason.
Every production car I’ve seen has them like this.

Purely cosmetic. They work absolutely fine with the twist.

I chose to turn mine around but it was for aesthetics only.

And I was “warned” not to do it by someone who is still scare-mongering about this non-issue.

I do not have any issues with mine from a practical perspective, no issues and comfortable. I really think its more aggressive action causing issues

 

[lion shf]

As long as it’s under warranty no issue at all

 

[eriegz]

The seatbelts are side-specific.

They have different part numbers and it even says LH and RH on the labels at the bottom.

As is common on this forum, people are getting all excited over not very much.

The belt “twist” isn’t wrong. It’s how Lotus have chosen to install them, for whatever reason.
Every production car I’ve seen has them like this.

Purely cosmetic. They work absolutely fine with the twist.

I chose to turn mine around but it was for aesthetics only.

And I was “warned” not to do it by someone who is still scare-mongering about this non-issue.

But they're very clearly twisted in one of Eagle's photos, then NOT twisted in the other.

 

[Green]

The thing is, they CAN install these belt assemblies correctly, because there are photos that show them done that way on both sides of the car.

Right side done correctly; belt is flat all the way, no twist, and the cloth tab at the bottom and the blade are pointing towards the seat:

View attachment 26346

Left side, same thing: belt is flat all the way, no twist, and the cloth tab at the bottom and the blade are pointing towards the seat:

View attachment 26347

So it CAN be done because somebody there on assembly has done it, which shows it is NOT supposed to be twisted if the belt mechanisms are installed correctly. This isn't just a matter of twisting the belt around at the seat end, because then the blade and cloth tab are now pointing in the wrong direction, away from the seat. The entire assembly has to be installed in the correct orientation starting with the mount inside the side of the car. If it's installed correctly at that mounting point, the blade and cloth tab will be pointing away from the seat, towards the side of the car, so when the installer pulls the mounting plate on the end of the belt up and through the B Pillar, the cloth tab and blade will then be pointing towards the seat and you can attach the mounting plate to the seat.

This picture shows the seat belt mechanism inside this side of the car has been mounted backwards. This assumes they're using the same mechanism for both sides of the car, and it just has to be turned one way or the other before it's installed. If they have TWO different assemblies, then there is definitely one for the right, and one for the left, and the visual clue before installation is the cloth tab and blade should be pointing away from the seat and towards the side of the car.

View attachment 26348


If ANYONE is doing a tour, PLEASE show them this post with the pictures, so they'll understand what's going on, because somebody there clearly doesn't yet. If the belt has to be twisted to get the blade to point towards the seat, the mechanism inside the side of the car was installed backwards. If there are two different belt assembly part numbers, then there's definitely one for the right side, and one for the left. They cannot be interchanged. Maybe some of you going to Goodwood? Show them this!

Wow that Ice Leather seat bottom looks terrible. Hopefully that is a pre production car.

 

[eclat2emira]

Wow that Ice Leather seat bottom looks terrible. Hopefully that is a pre production car.

Looks like a pre-prod driving academy car - think I drove that one!

 

[Eagle7]

The seatbelts are side-specific.

They have different part numbers and it even says LH and RH on the labels at the bottom.

As is common on this forum, people are getting all excited over not very much.

The belt “twist” isn’t wrong. It’s how Lotus have chosen to install them, for whatever reason.
Every production car I’ve seen has them like this.

Purely cosmetic. They work absolutely fine with the twist.

I chose to turn mine around but it was for aesthetics only.

And I was “warned” not to do it by someone who is still scare-mongering about this non-issue.

Oh you're just so cute and clever, aren't you? Get a pair and say it: "Eagle7 warned me not to do it". YOU call it "scare-mongering", but that's not what it is. IF in fact there are two different assemblies that are so side specific they're even marked LH and RH, why do you suppose that is? As two of those photos I posted show, you can tell the difference between which car has the correct assembly installed on the designated side, and which car doesn't. Now if it doesn't really matter, then why do you suppose they bothered with building and designating which side an assembly is supposed to go on? When the Owner's Manual itself warns that the seatbelt should not be twisted, why is that?

Now let me ask you, Mr. Superior this: Let's say you who unbolted your seat belt, and removed and reinstalled the blade yourself, get in a collision where in addition to your vehicle taking damage, you and/or a passenger are injured. You make a claim to Lotus and your insurance company, and the legal departments find out you did this to your car. Would they claim "It's fine, we're going to cover all the costs for the damage anyways", or would they say "He made an unauthorized modification to a safety system so as a result, we're not liable for any of the damages." Which do you think they would say?

 

[Eagle7]

Wow that Ice Leather seat bottom looks terrible. Hopefully that is a pre production car.

Yeah it is, @eclat2emira correctly identified it.

 

[Andrea]

Yesterday I was at the dealer in Italy, there were five Emiras, tree recently delivered (like one week…ish) and two before…all five on the passenger side (different from uk’s side) had the seatbelt twisted…… are we really sure it is not intend to be like that?

 

[Eagle7]

Yesterday I was at the dealer in Italy, there were five Emiras, tree recently delivered (like one week…ish) and two before…all five on the passenger side (different from uk’s side) had the seatbelt twisted…… are we really sure it is not intend to be like that?

Were they not twisted on the other side? So the ones on the right side of the car were twisted and the ones on the left side were not?

 

[Andrea]

Were they not twisted on the other side? So the ones on the right side of the car were twisted and the ones on the left side were not?

Honestly I didn’t noticed, I focused on the driver side completely forgetting the other

 

[EMIRADILEMMA]

Yesterday I was at the dealer in Italy, there were five Emiras, tree recently delivered (like one week…ish) and two before…all five on the passenger side (different from uk’s side) had the seatbelt twisted…… are we really sure it is not intend to be like that?

If it is intended to be like this, all I would like is for Lotus to officially confirm that this is the intended way of having them fitted. However, right now, all we have is 2 differing views from forum members. For me personally, never having owned a Lotus, I am unsure. However, judging from how I have yet to find any other car I have ever sat in with seat belts twisted like this, I highly doubt this is correctly fitted.
Perhaps, in the absence of any official communication or confirmation from Lotus on this, if any forum members with older models can help with pictures of how the seatbelts are fitted in these cars, it may go some way into figuring out if this was intentional or a mistake.

 

[EMIRADILEMMA]

Oh you're just so cute and clever, aren't you? Get a pair and say it: "Eagle7 warned me not to do it". YOU call it "scare-mongering", but that's not what it is. IF in fact there are two different assemblies that are so side specific they're even marked LH and RH, why do you suppose that is? As two of those photos I posted show, you can tell the difference between which car has the correct assembly installed on the designated side, and which car doesn't. Now if it doesn't really matter, then why do you suppose they bothered with building and designating which side an assembly is supposed to go on? When the Owner's Manual itself warns that the seatbelt should not be twisted, why is that?

Now let me ask you, Mr. Superior this: Let's say you who unbolted your seat belt, and removed and reinstalled the blade yourself, get in a collision where in addition to your vehicle taking damage, you and/or a passenger are injured. You make a claim to Lotus and your insurance company, and the legal departments find out you did this to your car. Would they claim "It's fine, we're going to cover all the costs for the damage anyways", or would they say "He made an unauthorized modification to a safety system so as a result, we're not liable for any of the damages." Which do you think they would say?

Precisely my concern as well, in addition to this, what if the twist reduces or hampers the functionality of the seatbelt.