Shifting in V6 manual

[Eagle7]

Do you Jab the throttle on corner exit like senna? I have never seen anyone do that and I’ve never tried it. But it’s an interesting concept of finding the edge of grip with throttle jabs before full throttle out of a corner.

I don't jab, although I do slightly pump the throttle a bit as I'm moving out of the apex to get the power up without breaking the back end loose. I'm doing that at the same time I'm working to get the front wheels straightened out so I can hit the power.

There are basically two cornering techniques; the U curve and the V. I've always been a U driver, while someone like Verstappen is famously a V driver (and a very successful one). The U curve technique is all about smoothing out the changes into and through a curve as you go around, in one smooth continuous motion, while the V is a hard straight line into the apex, a hard brake, then a hard turn at the apex into a straight line out and hard on the gas as quickly as possible. It's a maximum braking - pivot - maximum acceleration out move. It's a more violent technique, harder on the brakes and car, but also slightly faster if you can master it. That cornering style favors cars with lots of power and torque.

What I do is just a soft slight pump of the throttle as I'm passing through the apex to maintain and begin increasing the velocity as the wheels begin straightening out. How much depends on my speed, the corner, and what's coming up next as I exit. If it's a double-apex (2 corners back-to-back turning in the same direction) I try to make it one long corner with an apex in the middle between them. Again, very slight throttle input to maintain momentum until I can begin increasing it. If it's an S, like a right exiting into a left turn, then you have to manage your exit speed and line out of the first corner to not overdo the entry into the next one following it. It's all about position; where you want your car to be for what's coming up next.

Everything above is for track driving by the way, but the principles still hold for the street; just not for maximum speed which is what you're going for on the track. You can still practice good technique on the street though, and even at lower speeds it's still satisfying when you get it right.

 

[seriously]

first time hearing about the "V" but makes sense. Verstappen is also super aggressive and I wonder if that technique favors "fighting for position" as well as outright speed.

Multiple corners are fun and I always think about setting up for and maximizing the last apex. not sure if that is at all correct, but that is intuitively how I think about setting up corners.

Given that I fully PPF'd this car, I'm excited to get it out on track! wonder if there is a Lotus or Emira trackday coming up... need to see what these sport cup 2s are all about.

 

[Tomwa]

To piggy back here.

V-driving as mentioned is a thing, but really for most cars, and most people the horsepower just isn't there to drive this way.

Common experience and results says the faster driver is the one capable of maintaining the fastest minimum speed through a corner. Usually this translates to, least amount of braking you can manage, and the fastest possible speed through the apex so that accelerating out of the turn begins with the most favorable starting condition.

"V-ing" the turn, usually sacrifices this minimum speed, diving it lower than otherwise would be required, but coming with a few advantages. Later braking, which means advantages in passing opportunities, and usually a straighter line out of the turn, which means you can get back onto the gas and accelerate sooner which could result in higher speeds further down the straight if you have enough power to overcome your slower speed during the smaller time you spend doing actual turning.

There's really no safe way to practice V-ing out a turn on public roads, as it requires being on the absolute threshold in tight turns. For other types of driving, I think you could get shades of that on public roads, but in reality trying to hold your car at the maximum threshold of grip, whether under braking, or accelerating out of turn is just a recipe for disaster.

Enjoy the car, enjoy how grippy the car is, enjoy how fast the car seems. Definitely don't cross the centerline on a road, and don't threshold or trailbrake where results can be quite bad.

For me, even in track driving or in sim driving, there are times where I'd rather leave the car in a higher gear than I could for coming out of a turn, it means I can get on throttle earlier without risk of overloading the rear tires, and it gives me time to focus on steering input etc. Usually I'm only doing this kind of thing when I'm looking at a series of turns, I'll pick the gear I want to come out of the set of turns in and leave it there, but as a practice...probably much safer on the street.

 

[seriously]

I agree with the higher gear part. Much easier to be smooth with the throttle when you’re not in the peaky part of the rev range when coming out of a corner and unwinding. That’s basically when you spin.

DCT however makes it so much easier to exploit the upper RPMs as it’s so easy to downshift and stay smooth on the throttle. This scenario is where DCT shines for me. Not just blistering fast shifts for going straight but smooth, instant shifts when you need to be smooth.

 

[KAR120C]

I've never heard of V-ing the turn, but it sounds like basic late apexing a turn. The way to go fast around the track is to maximize your available straight so you can maximize your time on full throttle. Brake deep and get slowed down, turn early so you can start accelerating and unwind the steering early so you clip the apex late in the turn. Slow in, fast out. If you aren't doing that on track then you are losing a lot of speed.

And for more advanced drivers, the above includes trail braking into the turn-in.

Yes, some multi-corner sections, and carousels, require a slightly different approach, but every one of them will involve setting up the last turn to maximize time on full throttle.

 

[ADC]

It tickles me that up until now, I've never had a car where any of this was really applicable... sure, I was interested in the theory, but it didn't seem a good idea to practice such things on the family barge (even in modified form).

Now I drive around in a constant state of exhilaration / mild panic at how much grip is available when I tip into a corner, but all the theory seems to spill right out of my head (perhaps due to the unfamiliar levels of g-force).

I'm taking it pretty cautiously, given this is my first mid-engine car, and recall tales from my formative years of MR2s snap-oversteering off into the landscape when you didn't give inputs with respect, but some of these techniques actually feel fairly natural - trail braking seems to be a thing I do purely because I'm coming into a corner hotter than expected sometimes, so I brush them as I'm tightening line... and I do wonder if I'm staying on the road purely because I'm far below where the actual limit of grip is

All of this reminds me that I need to book a skidpan or track day...

 

[seriously]

I've never heard of V-ing the turn, but it sounds like basic late apexing a turn. The way to go fast around the track is to maximize your available straight so you can maximize your time on full throttle. Brake deep and get slowed down, turn early so you can start accelerating and unwind the steering early so you clip the apex late in the turn. Slow in, fast out. If you aren't doing that on track then you are losing a lot of speed.

And for more advanced drivers, the above includes trail braking into the turn-in.

Yes, some multi-corner sections, and carousels, require a slightly different approach, but every one of them will involve setting up the last turn to maximize time on full throttle.

It’s sounds like just a more aggressive version of what you would typically do. You always want to brake as late as possible so you don’t lose straight line speed unnecessarily. But I think a typical line would be brake, kind of max coast into the apex (mild throttle) and then accelerate out. V just sounds like a super aggressive version where you brake as late as possible as to not miss the apex, probably hit the apex at a slower speed but turn and accelerate earlier to maximize throttle out. Maybe your angle of attack is different and you use way more tire wear to run like this.

If that’s right (and it could be wrong) theory suggests this method to be slower, but probably better for position fighting- like way better. I can’t imagine you drive like this on a qualifying lap though. But maybe it is for highly overpowered cars? I’m thinking how you would approach a corner like Ken block- no one would do that to be fast, but when your car has so much power maybe it is actually faster this way.

 

[KAR120C]

It’s sounds like just a more aggressive version of what you would typically do. You always want to brake as late as possible so you don’t lose straight line speed unnecessarily. But I think a typical line would be brake, kind of max coast into the apex (mild throttle) and then accelerate out. V just sounds like a super aggressive version where you brake as late as possible as to not miss the apex, probably hit the apex at a slower speed but turn and accelerate earlier to maximize throttle out. Maybe your angle of attack is different and you use way more tire wear to run like this.

If that’s right (and it could be wrong) theory suggests this method to be slower, but probably better for position fighting- like way better. I can’t imagine you drive like this on a qualifying lap though. But maybe it is for highly overpowered cars? I’m thinking how you would approach a corner like Ken block- no one would do that to be fast, but when your car has so much power maybe it is actually faster this way.

In a late apex, you've completed a lot of your rotation early so you can actually begin to roll on the throttle (never coast) the moment you begin to unwind the wheel. As you unwind through track out, you are continuing to gain speed so you are hitting the max possible speeds continuously until track out and be on full throttle at that point.

When I instruct I always use the string tied between the wheel and throttle. As you push the throttle the string should be unwinding the wheel.

For long sweepers you may reach a point of having to hold a constant speed, or maybe double apexing.

I doubt Verstappen does anything different than any other F1 driver. He probably just does it a little better so that each corner gains him a few 1/100's.

 

[Dan C]

This video explains how racing lines can vary by driver:

 

[KAR120C]

This video explains how racing lines can vary by driver:

Nice video! As I mentioned above, the carousels and sweepers can give interesting options like the double apex shown with some of Schumacher's lines.

Tire management has become so important with today's compounds. You see a lot more neutral handling to prevent premature wear, unlike Schumacher's sliding around!

 

[Eagle7]

This video explains how racing lines can vary by driver:

This is a really good video. It explains why I've always hated understeer, and favored mild oversteer. Oversteer just gives you more control over the pivot at the apex, and makes it easier to purposely drive out of the corner. I haven't followed F1 like I used to, so I didn't realize the tires they're using now are more fragile.

 

[KAR120C]

This is a really good video. It explains why I've always hated understeer, and favored mild oversteer. Oversteer just gives you more control over the pivot at the apex, and makes it easier to purposely drive out of the corner. I haven't followed F1 like I used to, so I didn't realize the tires they're using now are more fragile.

Understeer is literally for the masses. Pretty much every make/model comes from the factory dialed in to understeer. It the safest setup since it self corrects as speed drops.

It's also the most boring setup since it's much harder to go fast if you can't easily rotate the car in a corner.

I have my first track days this weekend in the Emira with factory settings (which likes to understeer) so will play some more with pressures. If that doesn't work, then I guess it's back to serious trail braking to get the butt to rotate.

 

[Eagle7]

Understeer is literally for the masses. Pretty much every make/model comes from the factory dialed in to understeer. It the safest setup since it self corrects as speed drops.

It's also the most boring setup since it's much harder to go fast if you can't easily rotate the car in a corner.

I have my first track days this weekend in the Emira with factory settings (which likes to understeer) so will play some more with pressures. If that doesn't work, then I guess it's back to serious trail braking to get the butt to rotate.

Yeah, though in reality understeer is safer for everybody else, and screws the driver. It's better for the unskilled who drive too fast to just plow off the road instead of spinning in the middle of the road and jeopardize everyone else. Calling it boring is a very diplomatic way of describing it lol. For me it was always maddening. Few things piss me off behind the wheel more or faster than a car that plows like a tractor and just refuses to turn. That's probably the genesis behind the development of drifting, where drivers are literally forcing their car to go around the corner whether it wants to or not.

It'll be interesting to see what your take is on the Emira on track. I don't recall; do you have Sport or Touring, and Cup2's or Goodyears?

 

[KAR120C]

Yeah, though in reality understeer is safer for everybody else, and screws the driver. It's better for the unskilled who drive too fast to just plow off the road instead of spinning in the middle of the road and jeopardize everyone else. Calling it boring is a very diplomatic way of describing it lol. For me it was always maddening. Few things piss me off behind the wheel more or faster than a car that plows like a tractor and just refuses to turn. That's probably the genesis behind the development of drifting, where drivers are literally forcing their car to go around the corner whether it wants to or not.

It'll be interesting to see what your take is on the Emira on track. I don't recall; do you have Sport or Touring, and Cup2's or Goodyears?

Goodyears. I won't be setting any personal bests! lol

 

[Eagle7]

Goodyears. I won't be setting any personal bests! lol

Maybe, but now we'll see what a street car on street tires can do!

 

[KAR120C]

Maybe, but now we'll see what a street car on street tires can do!

I'll be running for the first time with ESC totally off, so I'm sure it will at least be able to spin!

 

[KAR120C]

Maybe, but now we'll see what a street car on street tires can do!

I ran instructor sessions with the novice group today, mostly circulating among the novices to provide lead/follow or watch their lines, so most of today's track driving wasn't pushing super hard. However, I did have the opportunity in the last session to just have some fun and see what the car can do.

In no particular order, here are my impressions.

The Goodyears aren't bad tires. They are very progressive and predictable and were consistent throughout an entire session without falling away near the end. They are still a road tire, and I expected them to truly suck on track, but they did not. Not my first choice for a track tire by any means, but I had fun with them.

Track mode with track ESC on was remarkably smooth. It interfered very subtlety and I only really noticed when trying to roll on the throttle hard right before track out. It didn't seem responsive until I unwound the wheel after track out and I could feel the engine really pick up. I assume it was retarding the timing or just not letting the throttle open up.

Track mode with ESC off. I could roll the throttle and get the desired response. I could also confirm what what really happening with the car. I've commented before about understeer on the road. At speed on track it completely disappeared and handling became very, very neutral. I found it hard to provoke undue oversteer due to speed or hard throttle. I had to purposely lift hard mid-corner for the tail to get feisty. I'll push a little harder tomorrow to see what happens, but I expect it to behave like it did today and just drift through the corners without too much drama. I noted the tire shoulders with ESC on and off. OFF definitely allowed for higher speeds in the corners as the shoulders showed more roll wear.

On the road, I feel the steering is a little light. On track it was perfect. Effort builds linearly. Thanks Lotus for keeping hydraulic steering.

I had to slow my shifts at high RPM. The trans didn't want to be rushed, so I needed to be more deliberate with my shifting. Oddly, it was mostly on upshifts.

I like the sports mode dash layout better than track. I'm not sure why. It was very readable. Maybe I'm just used to Sport.

Lap timer is useless. Maybe I am too old to multi-task anymore. Trying to remember to push the button precisely as you cross the line for each lap while accelerating, shifting, checking gauges, checking the flaggers, looking for point by's, etc, didn't work. Manually recording each lap is just too low on my list. I'll have to dig out Harry's lap timer tomorrow.

All in all it was a nice occasional-track-use car. Not a track star like my old Elise, but very enjoyable and extremely predictable. And it provided a super comfy ride back home.

 

[KAR120C]

I ran instructor sessions with the novice group today, mostly circulating among the novices to provide lead/follow or watch their lines, so most of today's track driving wasn't pushing super hard. However, I did have the opportunity in the last session to just have some fun and see what the car can do.

In no particular order, here are my impressions.

The Goodyears aren't bad tires. They are very progressive and predictable and were consistent throughout an entire session without falling away near the end. They are still a road tire, and I expected them to truly suck on track, but they did not. Not my first choice for a track tire by any means, but I had fun with them.

Track mode with track ESC on was remarkably smooth. It interfered very subtlety and I only really noticed when trying to roll on the throttle hard right before track out. It didn't seem responsive until I unwound the wheel after track out and I could feel the engine really pick up. I assume it was retarding the timing or just not letting the throttle open up.

Track mode with ESC off. I could roll the throttle and get the desired response. I could also confirm what what really happening with the car. I've commented before about understeer on the road. At speed on track it completely disappeared and handling became very, very neutral. I found it hard to provoke undue oversteer due to speed or hard throttle. I had to purposely lift hard mid-corner for the tail to get feisty. I'll push a little harder tomorrow to see what happens, but I expect it to behave like it did today and just drift through the corners without too much drama. I noted the tire shoulders with ESC on and off. OFF definitely allowed for higher speeds in the corners as the shoulders showed more roll wear.

On the road, I feel the steering is a little light. On track it was perfect. Effort builds linearly. Thanks Lotus for keeping hydraulic steering.

I had to slow my shifts at high RPM. The trans didn't want to be rushed, so I needed to be more deliberate with my shifting. Oddly, it was mostly on upshifts.

I like the sports mode dash layout better than track. I'm not sure why. It was very readable. Maybe I'm just used to Sport.

Lap timer is useless. Maybe I am too old to multi-task anymore. Trying to remember to push the button precisely as you cross the line for each lap while accelerating, shifting, checking gauges, checking the flaggers, looking for point by's, etc, didn't work. Manually recording each lap is just too low on my list. I'll have to dig out Harry's lap timer tomorrow.

All in all it was a nice occasional-track-use car. Not a track star like my old Elise, but very enjoyable and extremely predictable. And it provided a super comfy ride back home.

Update from Day 2.

Most of my comments remain the same. HOWEVER I had a lot more opportunity to test different things since there were only 4 novices in the green group Sunday and they didn't need instructors. Talk about a wide open track!

I did go ahead and bring the car up to it's limits (and beyond). The very neutral handling goes back to an understeer at the limit. It's a smooth transition and easy to control, but if you hate understeer like me, I didn't much care for it. The Goodyears remained consistent and communicated the understeer in both steering and sound. I never once had oversteer at the limit since the front tires always threw in the towel early.

In my last session I way overcooked the carousel and missed the apex by a couple of feet and the understeer took me out on the trackout curb too far and too early. I was too committed to lift and dropped a wheel in the dirt. Physics took over and I looped it in a lovely long slide and eventually backed into the grass on the inside. No damage and had a good chuckle.

This should be super easy to correct with a little more neg camber in the front. This week's investigation will be to try to find some track specs for the Emira and determine how much I want to add to dial out the understeer. I'm not going to touch the rears right now. They were totally planted.

 

[Eagle7]

It looks like the Goodyear is decent enough for the street then. My only complaint is how noisy they are on less than perfectly smooth surfaces.

There's nothing quite like that first off in a new car LOL. Sounds like you had a good time, and what you're saying shows how good the chassis setup from the factory actually is. It's a Lotus!

 

[birdegac]

25 years driving manuals and I have never downshifted when I am decelerating to a stop. For example, exiting a highway onto an exit ramp, I shift from 6th to neutral and coast until I stop.