TOP GEAR Review ?...... Total specualtion

[TomE]

Yeah, a spokesperson/designer/someone at Lotus said the Emira is lower on power because of stricter emissions regulations now.

Regarding weight and 0-60... I'm in the US, so comparing it to the US 2021 Evora GT:
1. The Emira is actually lighter at 3,097 lbs, whereas the 2021 Evora GT is 3,175 lbs.
2. The Emira is significantly slower in 0-60 at 4.3s, whereas the 2021 Evora GT is 3.8.

I'm kind of expecting the Emira to be overall faster around a track than the 2021 Evora GT, having the weight, aero, and suspected chassis/suspension advantages.

On another note, I thought I read that the only white Emira in existence is the 4cylinder. I sure hope they don't test the 4cyl on Top Gear...

Yes, the Evora GT only had to meet US emissions whereas the Emira is a world car and has to meet regulations for every country where it will be sold. So Evora GT 416hp and Emira 400hp.

On weights, your 3,097lbs for Emira is for the i4 with no options. The V6 FE is 3,215lbs but that's EU DIN weight not curb weight, so you need to add another 165lbs = 3,380lbs curb weight. So the Emira V6 FE is 205lbs heavier than the Evora GT - not surprising given there's $10k of carbon parts on the GT and the Emira FE includes those heavy seats and extra tech

The Emira will be slower 0-60 - more like 4.3s versus the GT's 3.8s (but no one actually achieved that and 4.0s was a real world figure). I agree on track the Emira will probably edge it, depending on the track. It has a wider front track, improved suspension setup and better aero including more high speed downforce. Anecdotally I understand the Emira is faster around the Hethel test track than all Evoras except the GT430.

I believe there may be two white Emiras. I've seen the spy shots of the muddy one with the ADAS sensor pod which we assume is an i4. The one we saw at Hethel I was pretty sure was a V6 and had no sensor pod. Perhaps TG are going to test both?

 

[SlavaUkraini]

Yeah, a spokesperson/designer/someone at Lotus said the Emira is lower on power because of stricter emissions regulations now.

Regarding weight and 0-60... I'm in the US, so comparing it to the US 2021 Evora GT:
1. The Emira is actually lighter at 3,097 lbs, whereas the 2021 Evora GT is 3,175 lbs.
2. The Emira is significantly slower in 0-60 at 4.3s, whereas the 2021 Evora GT is 3.8.

I'm kind of expecting the Emira to be overall faster around a track than the 2021 Evora GT, having the weight, aero, and suspected chassis/suspension advantages.

On another note, I thought I read that the only white Emira in existence is the 4cylinder. I sure hope they don't test the 4cyl on Top Gear...

So, will the Emira continue to stay at 400bhp, or even decrease as the years go by? I suspect it will do the opposite and get slight boosts every year, which is why I do not buy the emissions regulations suggestion. That turbocharged v6 is capable of more than 400bhp.

EDIT: Looks like Tom addressed the emissions point while I was posting this.

 

[CHEESE]

On weights, your 3,097lbs for Emira is for the i4 with no options.

Ohhh ok. I did not know that.

 

[CHEESE]

So, will the Emira continue to stay at 400bhp, or even decrease as the years go by? I suspect it will do the opposite and get slight boosts every year, which is why I do not buy the emissions regulations suggestion. That turbocharged v6 is capable of more than 400bhp.

EDIT: Looks like Tom addressed the emissions point while I was posting this.

Yeah I just posted that because it's what I heard Lotus people say. I agree that power will go up, and I've already assumed that I'd be trading in my FE some day for a more-refined and powerful Emira (as long as it sticks to the manual trans).

 

[TomE]

Ohhh ok. I did not know that.

No worries. I have the metric figures in my head and it's 1405kg DIN for the i4 Base Edition with no options and 1458kg for the V6 FE manual with all options (auto will be a fraction heavier). So 53kg different from lightest to heaviest and I gather in like for like spec the i4 is about 30kg lighter than the V6.

Some of that 30kg is the i4 + turbo + DCT versus V6 + supercharger + manual box, but some is also down to the i4 having an aluminium rear subframe whereas the V6 has a steel one. I think it's roughly 20kg down to the engine and 10kg to the frame.

 

[xen]

This. It seems there will always be some flat earthers claiming that the Emira is just a rehashed Evora, but the notion is demonstrably, factually wrong. It shares the V6 engine and gearbox with the Evora, but has no other major parts in common. Perhaps it is because it is a similar size the the Evora? Or maybe it is just because of the drive train? If Lotus had dropped the V6 and only designed the car around the I4 I suspect the re-skinned Evora jibe would be less prevalent.

Infuriating. I would have left this but for the typical forum trope of veiled insults at people with opposing (even if correct) views to yours.

Ignoring the semantics around 'rehashed / re-skinned / evolution' etc..your first problem is you consider the idea of a re-skinned Evora a jibe.

Your second is you don't actually know what it took to put the Evora together and the feat of engineering it was to make a car that great with the budget constraints within Lotus at the time. If you did you would know a clean slate "all new" design would not use the same power train or chassis as a base (regarding chassis - like why the 2 seater Emira has 4 seats with the rear seat delete option ticked)

I suggest you educate yourself. It's a very insightful series on the Evora and Lotus in general...unless he's a flat-earther too and you know more about Lotus than a 30 year + factory veteran.



P.S. He has a video on the Emira as well where he bets a lot of the mechanical components are carried over from the Evora - which he also states isn't a criticism.

Apologies for yet another off-topic post. It'll be my last here.

 

[andrew6382]

Infuriating. I would have left this but for the typical forum trope of veiled insults at people with opposing (even if correct) views to yours.

Ignoring the semantics around 'rehashed / re-skinned / evolution' etc..your first problem is you consider the idea of a re-skinned Evora a jibe.

Your second is you don't actually know what it took to put the Evora together and the feat of engineering it was to make a car that great with the budget constraints within Lotus at the time. If you did you would know a clean slate "all new" design would not use the same power train or chassis as a base (regarding chassis - like why the 2 seater Emira has 4 seats with the rear seat delete option ticked)

I suggest you educate yourself. It's a very insightful series on the Evora and Lotus in general...unless he's a flat-earther too and you know more about Lotus than a 30 year + factory veteran.



P.S. He has a video on the Emira as well where he bets a lot of the mechanical components are carried over from the Evora - which he also states isn't a criticism.

Apologies for yet another off-topic post. It'll be my last here.

You assumed you knew more than me, then explained the cost etc, of building a new platform

mechanical components are carried over, they always are... engine, gearbox, dampers..... does not mean its not a new car

If you say the EMIRA is an evolution of the EVORA ..... You could say all BMW 3 are evolutions, and they have not brought a new car out for ever

I have seen myself.... that there is lots about the EMIRA is new.

So........ having watch your sages video.... some of his details are out of date.... but hay video... He himself admits he has not seen the EMIRA CHASSIS...... he is only speculating.... he even say lots is new

So fare to say "NEW CAR"

 

[FrenchBred]

Perhaps TG are going to test both?

Oooooh plot twist!!!!

 

[TomE]

We can clearly get into a lengthy debate about what "new" means in the context of Evora versus Emira.

I think it's fair to say Emira is not a "clean slate" design. It takes a huge amount of learning from the Evora (and Elise/Exige and Evija and other Lotus consulting projects for other firms).

It re-uses a Toyota engine and transmission that Lotus know very well. Yes it's old but it's also reliable and presumably fairly cheap now. It can be made to sound great, drives nicely, has a decent linear power delivery. But emissions are poor, and hence it's eye-wateringly expensive tax-wise in many countries and it'll likely be killed off in a few years. Presumably engineering it into the Emira (mounting, thermal management etc) was fairly easy as it's an incremental step.

Contrast that with the extra 6 months development needed to get the AMG variant in place. But it's a more modern engine, much better on emissions etc.

On the chassis, it's clearly an evolution of the Versatile Vehicle Architecture used for Evora, which was designed to be adaptable for other applications (hence the "Versatile" in VVA). It's the same extruded and bonded aluminium technology, but almost every dimension and element is different between Evora and Emira. Overall dimensions are similar but suspension mounting points are different, driver position and engine and firewall positions are different. So it's an evolution not the new clean design of, for example, the LEVA EV architecture.

Evolution is good - it builds on skills and knowledge, to the extent the Emira crash test physical results exactly matched the computer simulations. That's very impressive.

Other parts are mostly new but follow familiar patterns, like suspension (conventional spring and damper on both cars but different specs) and brakes.

Taking the Evora and applying everything they've learnt to then create the Emira should make for a brilliant car. Maybe it should have been called the Lotus Evolve?

 

[andrew6382]

We can clearly get into a lengthy debate about what "new" means in the context of Evora versus Emira.

I think it's fair to say Emira is not a "clean slate" design. It takes a huge amount of learning from the Evora (and Elise/Exige and Evija and other Lotus consulting projects for other firms).

It re-uses a Toyota engine and transmission that Lotus know very well. Yes it's old but it's also reliable and presumably fairly cheap now. It can be made to sound great, drives nicely, has a decent linear power delivery. But emissions are poor, and hence it's eye-wateringly expensive tax-wise in many countries and it'll likely be killed off in a few years. Presumably engineering it into the Emira (mounting, thermal management etc) was fairly easy as it's an incremental step.

Contrast that with the extra 6 months development needed to get the AMG variant in place. But it's a more modern engine, much better on emissions etc.

On the chassis, it's clearly an evolution of the Variable Vehicle Architecture used for Evora, which was designed to be adaptable for other applications (hence the "Variable" in VVA). It's the same extruded and bonded aluminium technology, but almost every dimension and element is different between Evora and Emira. Overall dimensions are similar but suspension mounting points are different, driver position and engine and firewall positions are different. So it's an evolution not the new clean design of, for example, the LEVA EV architecture.

Evolution is good - it builds on skills and knowledge, to the extent the Emira crash test physical results exactly matched the computer simulations. That's very impressive.

Other parts are mostly new but follow familiar patterns, like suspension (conventional spring and damper on both cars but different specs) and brakes.

Taking the Evora and applying everything they've learnt to then create the Emira should make for a brilliant car. Maybe it should have been called the Lotus Evolve?

#for the evolution

 

[EspritGuy]

I’m sure that will get mentioned on Top Gear!

We can be sure he's consumed every Emira video and likely will duplicate Gavin Kershaw's track maneuvers.. Will the drive be at Hethel or Top Gear's track? Also, it may be paired against an Evora if not Cayman.
I can hear him now: "Is it good enough against the Porsche.?"
It won't be a test, it will be a comparison.

 

[richbrown]

#for the evolution

Although this discussion is starting to get a little tit for tat which is unlike the posts of 2021 - perhaps the frustration of not having our cars is fuelling this. My contribution which may be viewed as useful or otherwise relates to Aston Martin. Having seen private documents about their production costs and margins (for very dull insurance purposes and declared values etc). A basic vantage v8 cost in 2007 something like £40k to make.
A DB9 £45k and DBS (which retailed at £180k+) £47/48k. My view for small production businesses is they will use a generic platform as the numbers aren’t financially viable to fully develop a “new” car. In any event I’m delighted Lotus has caught my imagination and 20 years after nearly buying an Elise I’m in for 2 deposits and an early 2023 FE V6. Marvellous

 

[andrew6382]

We need to find out the date with more detail, count down clock

perhaps try to do some kind of watch party/chat ?

 

[Tonyshepp]

Oooooh plot twist!!!!

Although this discussion is starting to get a little tit for tat which is unlike the posts of 2021 - perhaps the frustration of not having our cars is fuelling this. My contribution which may be viewed as useful or otherwise relates to Aston Martin. Having seen private documents about their production costs and margins (for very dull insurance purposes and declared values etc). A basic vantage v8 cost in 2007 something like £40k to make.
A DB9 £45k and DBS (which retailed at £180k+) £47/48k. My view for small production businesses is they will use a generic platform as the numbers aren’t financially viable to fully develop a “new” car. In any event I’m delighted Lotus has caught my imagination and 20 years after nearly buying an Elise I’m in for 2 deposits and an early 2023 FE V6. Marvellous

Really interesting as I tried to imagine the profit margins on a car. I assumed that the Emira retailing at 60k meant that the car actually cost between 30-35k to produce, seems like it could be less.
I dont care it’s a beautifully reshelled Evora with a much better interior.

 

[torstin]

Perhaps someone can create FaceliftEvoraForum.com

 

[TomE]

Really interesting as I tried to imagine the profit margins on a car. I assumed that the Emira retailing at 60k meant that the car actually cost between 30-35k to produce, seems like it could be less.
I dont care it’s a beautifully reshelled Evora with a much better interior.

Highest margins on cars are the premium brands and make around 20% - Porsche are in this league. A decent margin is around 10 per cent for firms like BMW. Volume manufacturers like Ford make as little as 1-2%.

 

[VL3X]

Highest margins on cars are the premium brands and make around 20% - Porsche are in this league. A decent margin is around 10 per cent for firms like BMW. Volume manufacturers like Ford make as little as 1-2%.

Maybe I missed it, but what are we thinking the margin is on the Emira? I realize there is a ton of R&D and chassis, paint, interior work... but the 2GR-FE crate motor is like $3k, Edlebrock 1740 supercharger kit is ~$4k, Bilstein B8s with Eibach pros all around are <$1k.... we're at $8k. I'm figuring the car costs about $30k to produce....

 

[Rudolph]

*****
Ok, most people like Chris Harris and values his opinion.......
Besides every FE buyer is very excited about the Emira.
CH is the first to be allowed (most likely carefully chosen by Hethel) to test the Emira, this makes his position not very enviable.
Everyone expects a lot of positivity from his opinion: especially Hethel ?
Can his opinion therefore still be sufficiently objective?

If enthusiastic.......no problem!
If less enthusiastic.......will he try to divert attention?
If rather neutral or seeming a little disappointed........will he tell us?
I personally doubt that we will get a sufficiently independent opinion due to Hethel and the high expectations of all FE buyers
We will see what will be the outcome.

 

[Wolfram]

I found this article interesting reading:

https://www.hotcars.com/why-top-gears-chris-harris-banned-driving-ferraris/

It would be interesting to know what stipulations / restrictions Lotus has placed on the TG and other press test drives.

But Chris Harris is one of the few motoring journalists I highly respect, is actually a very capable (if sometimes a little vivacious) driver and is not afraid to go 'against the wind' in his opinions. So if he has free rein on the Emira I will be very interested in what he has to say; if it is a restricted drive in a potentially non-standard-spec car at Hethel I'm not really interested.

 

[Racer X]

*****
Ok, most people like Chris Harris and values his opinion.......
Besides every FE buyer is very excited about the Emira.
CH is the first to be allowed (most likely carefully chosen by Hethel) to test the Emira, this makes his position not very enviable.
Everyone expects a lot of positivity from his opinion: especially Hethel ?
Can his opinion therefore still be sufficiently objective?

If enthusiastic.......no problem!
If less enthusiastic.......will he try to divert attention?
If rather neutral or seeming a little disappointed........will he tell us?
I personally doubt that we will get a sufficiently independent opinion due to Hethel and the high expectations of all FE buyers
We will see what will be the outcome.

I’ll also be looking for Harry’s Garage and Henry Catchpole to review the car. I’d like a balanced perspective. If you remember to when the Alfa 4C came out, early reviews celebrated the car. Only once journalists had sobered up from looking at the pretty exterior did they start to report what a difficult car it was to actually drive and live with (for the record, I still love the looks of the car, but wouldn’t in a million years pay double sticker for one today!).
Can’t wait to read and watch the reviews!