TOP GEAR Review ?...... Total specualtion

[andrew6382]

Yes, that is kinda my point - they are not switchable modes but there are 3 combinations so you would need 3 different cars to try them: Touring + Goodyears, Sports + Goodyears, Sports + Cup2s. I've gone for Sports + Goodyears after a last minutes change from the Cup2s. I am hoping that is the sweet spot me for for spirited road driving with the odd track day.

The touring chassis dont come with CUP2's..... if your saying your driving is spirited road driving with the odd track day. Thats been coverd....... touring suspenion

 

[freefall_junkie]

The touring chassis dont come with CUP2's..... if your saying your driving is spirited road driving with the odd track day. Thats been coverd....... touring suspenion

It is all personal preference. I've driven an Evora 400 and GT410 back to back and preferred the slightly firmer set up of the latter, so Sports seem the best option for me.

 

[andrew6382]

It is all personal preference. I've driven an Evora 400 and GT410 back to back and preferred the slightly firmer set up of the latter, so Sports seem the best option for me.

Fair point.....

 

[xen]

It will almost certainly be the sports suspension on cup 2's.

 

[andrew6382]

It will almost certainly be the sports suspension on cup 2's.

For me no..... no interest in the track.... Touring for me ..... if I am going on track I will take a bike

 

[xen]

It's first and foremost a sports car. Handling is where Lotus made their name and they'll want to demonstrate that especially as it's not expected to be quickest in a straight line.

Touring maybe for the 'influencer' YouTube reviewers that will test 0-60 times and luggage space dimensions...

Edit: Not a dig at those...they're the reviews I'm actually looking forward to. Thing is it'll be much better marketing to have top gear wax lyrical about handling and feel and engagement and lots of sliding around in a way 99% of the buying public will never experience than it would be to discuss ingress, luggage space and real world mpg figures which would actually be more useful...

 

[andrew6382]

It's first and foremost a sports car. Handling is where Lotus made their name and they'll want to demonstrate that especially as it's not expected to be quickest in a straight line.

Touring maybe for the 'influencer' YouTube reviewers that will test 0-60 times and luggage space dimensions...

I want the touring .... because that what I will be doing.... yes I have a youtube channel and it does ok.... infuencer nope.... 0-60 times always nice.... as I have been riding bikes since I was 17.... 0-60 of cars dont wow me.....

They want a car that works for a wide range of people.... hence the two chassis.....

You keep making statements that put others in box's , judgements on people.... how many youtubers do you know

 

[Pav]

I do think it may have saved a lot of soul searching if Lotus had just called Sport something like 'Circuit' (as with GR Yaris.) And really Touring does not need a name. It's an Emira with a beautifully balanced Lotus chassis set up.

Touring/Sport might be consistent with what they've done before but it is a bit confusing to the more general car buying audience Lotus is clearly aiming at. Particularly given the similarity in naming convention with the drive modes (for those reading this with said confusion refer Tom's explainer here .)

I found it exceedingly hard not to order the sports chassis. I'm an enthusiast, petrolhead and buying a sports car after all, so clearly ready to accept some compromise. But eventually I realised that I don't need a circuit/track focused setup. I'd imagine the vast majority of buyers are the same.

 

[eclat2emira]

I do think it may have saved a lot of soul searching if Lotus had just called Sport something like 'Circuit' (as with GR Yaris.) And really Touring does not need a name. It's an Emira with a beautifully balanced Lotus chassis set up.

Touring/Sport might be consistent with what they've done before but it is a bit confusing to the more general car buying audience Lotus is clearly aiming at. Particularly given the similarity in naming convention with the drive modes (for those reading this with said confusion refer Tom's explainer here .)

I found it exceedingly hard not to order the sports chassis. I'm an enthusiast, petrolhead and buying a sports car after all, so clearly ready to accept some compromise. But eventually I realised that I don't need a circuit/track focused setup. I'd imagine the vast majority of buyers are the same.

Yep, that was exactly my thinking Pav - the thought of Sport was nice, then I'm thinking is it a sin not to spec it? But thinking about real-world usage with occasional track day lead me straight to Touring. (And we might do some actual touring too!)

 

[andrew6382]

I do think it may have saved a lot of soul searching if Lotus had just called Sport something like 'Circuit' (as with GR Yaris.) And really Touring does not need a name. It's an Emira with a beautifully balanced Lotus chassis set up.

Touring/Sport might be consistent with what they've done before but it is a bit confusing to the more general car buying audience Lotus is clearly aiming at. Particularly given the similarity in naming convention with the drive modes (for those reading this with said confusion refer Tom's explainer here .)

I found it exceedingly hard not to order the sports chassis. I'm an enthusiast, petrolhead and buying a sports car after all, so clearly ready to accept some compromise. But eventually I realised that I don't need a circuit/track focused setup. I'd imagine the vast majority of buyers are the same.

You say it better..... its a little at ods.... buying a sports car, but with a touring set up ?

The DB9 is.... erm a little like.... its a clear GT car..... but will and can be driven sporty ?

 

[xen]

I want the touring .... because that what I will be doing.... yes I have a youtube channel and it does ok.... infuencer nope.... 0-60 times always nice.... as I have been riding bikes since I was 17.... 0-60 of cars dont wow me.....

They want a car that works for a wide range of people.... hence the two chassis.....

You keep making statements that put others in box's , judgements on people.... how many youtubers do you know

Yes but you're not Chris Harris or Top Gear. If you ran Lotus where would you send the car first and which set up would you send to sell the car?

Edited my post before your reply. Statement was once again not a dig. Carwow made a name drag racing and testing 0-60 times, he pokes holes in exhausts with the 'stick of truth'. Autogefühl uses a tape measure to measure boot space. Harry's Garage has a bad patch of road he tests cars on for road noise with a decibel meter. All very useful to the average buyer but won't set hearts on fire to sell a car! This is why I expect Lotus to send the sport suspension + cup 2 configuration to Top Gear - they will primarily test it on track which is where the Emira will shine.

 

[Tonyshepp]

It will almost certainly be the sports suspension on cup 2's.

It's first and foremost a sports car. Handling is where Lotus made their name and they'll want to demonstrate that especially as it's not expected to be quickest in a straight line.

Touring maybe for the 'influencer' YouTube reviewers that will test 0-60 times and luggage space dimensions...

Edit: Not a dig at those...they're the reviews I'm actually looking forward to. Thing is it'll be much better marketing to have top gear wax lyrical about handling and feel and engagement and lots of sliding around in a way 99% of the buying public will never experience than it would be to discuss ingress, luggage space and real world mpg figures which would actually be more useful...

Totally agree it will be the sports suspension on Cup2's sliding around a track withholding the onslaught of a GT3 nipping at its heels

 

[andrew6382]

Yes but you're not Chris Harris or Top Gear. If you ran Lotus where would you send the car first and which set up would you send to sell the car?

Edited my post before your reply. Statement was once again not a dig. Carwow made a name drag racing and testing 0-60 times, he pokes holes in exhausts with the 'stick of truth'. Autogefühl uses a tape measure to measure boot space. Harry's Garage has a bad patch of road he tests cars on for road noise with a decibel meter. All very useful to the average buyer but won't set hearts on fire to sell a car!

Fare..... am done with carwow... since he got that toy that lets him do 0-60 tests badly.... and drag race the car.... he does most his testing at the road testing ytrack.... not real world....

Chris I like..... but we dont need to see the car going side wase.... when we went to louts they would not tell use the set up of the car being used.... seen it... thats as close as we got

 

[Tonyshepp]

Yep, that was exactly my thinking Pav - the thought of Sport was nice, then I'm thinking is it a sin not to spec it? But thinking about real-world usage with occasional track day lead me straight to Touring. (And we might do some actual touring too!)

Mine too , for me Sport is seen as the pinnacle of how a car can perform but when I hear Gavan talking about sport introducing a harsher ride on certain road surfaces (which will be 99.99% of my driving) and the fact that the touring will be so much better at handling then my M3 I went for the touring. The touring name does seem to imply simply sitting in the chair watching the world go by with no/little involvement in the driving of the car.

 

[xen]

Mine too , for me Sport is seen as the pinnacle of how a car can perform but when I hear Gavan talking about sport introducing a harsher ride on certain road surfaces (which will be 99.99% of my driving) and the fact that the touring will be so much better at handling then my M3 I went for the touring. The touring name does seem to imply simply sitting in the chair watching the world go by with no/little involvement in the driving of the car.

Exact same dilemma I had. I went with the sports suspension as most the roads here are great and I wanted as pure a sports car as possible (it’ll be a 2nd car).

This is one part of the process that has really frustrated me with Lotus. Having to lock-in a build and chose colours and options they’ve deliberately not shared with their customers. Why risk all this goodwill?

 

[Pav]

Maybe TG will run the Sports chassis against the A110S and the Touring against A110GT. That would seem a relatively fair fight. Plus a single Cayman GTS set to Sports and Comfort. In itself that demonstrates the difference in ethos but possibly makes Porsche still look like the 'sensible' compromise.

Not that I particularly want to hear what a cricketer and a funny TV presenter have to say it would be an interesting feature on the 'last affordable petrol sports cars.' Conversely if Harris does track only, that's not really the whole picture.

 

[Tonyshepp]

Maybe TG will run the Sports chassis against the A110S and the Touring against A110GT. That would seem a relatively fair fight. Plus a single Cayman GTS set to Sports and Comfort. In itself that demonstrates the difference in ethos but possibly makes Porsche still look like the 'sensible' compromise.

Not that I particularly want to hear what a cricketer and a funny TV presenter have to say it would be an interesting feature on the 'last affordable petrol sports cars.' Conversely if Harris does track only, that's not really the whole picture.

Spot on - if Lotus had electronic adjustable dampers as standard we wouldn't have this dilemma about Sports and Touring but as you say the Porsche setup is compromised or is more expensive to deliver.

 

[eclat2emira]

Touring and Sports - 2 sides of the same coin

The topic of this thread has certainly stirred up some strong feelings about the two chassis set-ups and what type of person may favour each one!

A comment I recall from someone at Lotus (possibly Gavan) was along the lines of Touring being more biased towards the needs of road use (which for most in this group includes fast point-to-point driving) and Sports being more biased towards Track use. I think this included stiffer spring and damper rates and possibly more negative camber - great for track but accelerates tyre wear on the road and maybe makes it a bit too "pointy", so a little less suited for day-to-day use. (Forgive me - I'm no set-up guru!)

THIS IS A LOTUS - so BOTH set-ups are "sports car" or "sporting" set-ups, they are just different in whether they are more biased towards road or track - but they are both levels of compromise - neither is 100% road or 100% track.

Sports Touring or Sports Track anyone?

 

[TomE]

Touring and Sports - 2 sides of the same coin

The topic of this thread has certainly stirred up some strong feelings about the two chassis set-ups and what type of person may favour each one!

A comment I recall from someone at Lotus (possibly Gavan) was along the lines of Touring being more biased towards the needs of road use (which for most in this group includes fast point-to-point driving) and Sports being more biased towards Track use. I think this included stiffer spring and damper rates and possibly more negative camber - great for track but accelerates tyre wear on the road and maybe makes it a bit too "pointy", so a little less suited for day-to-day use. (Forgive me - I'm no set-up guru!)

THIS IS A LOTUS - so BOTH set-ups are "sports car" or "sporting" set-ups, they are just different in whether they are more biased towards road or track - but they are both levels of compromise - neither is 100% road or 100% track.

Sports Touring or Sports Track anyone?

Every time this topic comes up we see similar discussions. My next write up is on this topic and will be out later this week along with the i4 update.

You're spot on in this post, with Touring being road biased on mixed road surfaces and good for occasional track use, whereas Sports is more track-biased and some will feel it is a compromise too far on the road if you have poor road surfaces. If you have smooth roads, only use the car at weekends and/or are used to a stiffer setup then Sports may be fine for you even if you don't track very much.

There is definitely a wording/marketing issue too. Other manufacturers will have you believe that touring means soft and saggy and of course you must pay extra to get the "sports" version of things and therefore that must be an "upgrade". That's not the Lotus philosophy and the interviews with Gavan illustrate that Touring is a very capable sportscar, as it is on the Evora and Elise. Many of the Lotus development drivers choose a touring setup for their race cars. When I've asked a couple of them what Emira setup they'd choose for personal use they've also picked Touring for fast road driving on UK roads. There is also a much smaller difference between Emira Touring and Sport than between Launch Edition Evora NA (Touring) and V6 Exige (stiffer Sports).

Former Lotus CEO Jean Marc Gales famously tried to stop sales of the Elise with Touring setup, as he thought all sportscars should have Sports as default. He was given a company Elise to drive and only after many miles of enthusing about the drive was he told it was actually a Touring setup - both options were reinstated.

So far over 60% of V6 FE orders are for Touring. The press review cars and dealer demo cars will be about 50% of each setup.

 

[eclat2emira]

Every time this topic comes up we see similar discussions. My next write up is on this topic and will be out later this week along with the i4 update.

You're spot on in this post, with Touring being road biased on mixed road surfaces and good for occasional track use, whereas Sports is more track-biased and some will feel it is a compromise too far on the road if you have poor road surfaces. If you have smooth roads, only use the car at weekends and/or are used to a stiffer setup then Sports may be fine for you even if you don't track very much.

There is definitely a wording/marketing issue too. Other manufacturers will have you believe that touring means soft and saggy and of course you must pay extra to get the "sports" version of things and therefore that must be an "upgrade". That's not the Lotus philosophy and the interviews with Gavan illustrate that Touring is a very capable sportscar, as it is on the Evora and Elise. Many of the Lotus development drivers choose a touring setup for their race cars. When I've asked a couple of them what Emira setup they'd choose for personal use they've also picked Touring for fast road driving on UK roads. There is also a much smaller difference between Emira Touring and Sport than between Launch Edition Evora NA (Touring) and V6 Exige (stiffer Sports).

Former Lotus CEO Jean Marc Gales famously tried to stop sales of the Elise with Touring setup, as he thought all sportscars should have Sports as default. He was given a company Elise to drive and only after many miles of enthusing about the drive was he told it was actually a Touring setup - both options were reinstated.

So far over 60% of V6 FE orders are for Touring. The press review cars and dealer demo cars will be about 50% of each setup.

Interesting background and comparisons Tom. It really is purely a naming or marketing issue, the terms meaning different things to different people - it's the descriptions of each set-up and its raison d'etre we all need to focus on.

Do you need Road & Track or Track & Road?