USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[Maurice R]

I may believe that, but they have other cars approved?

what other cars other than the Evora

 

[981KMAN]

I may believe that, but they have other cars approved?

What other ICE cars has Lotus received EPA/CARB approval on in the past few Years?

The Evora in 2021 is the last Lotus listed in the EPA database, and that is a simple renew from the initial 2015 submission - not a new vehicle initial submission. I speculate that Lotus lost the required expertise in this field and is now re-learning the "ins & outs" of dealing with the EPA & CARB Regulators.

Yet it will all get worked out eventually, and we can complain about it while we wait......

 

[morphious]

What other ICE cars has Lotus received EPA/CARB approval on in the past few Years?

The Evora in 2021 is the last Lotus listed in the EPA database, and that is a simple renew from the initial 2015 submission - not a new vehicle initial submission. I speculate that Lotus lost the required expertise in this field and is now re-learning the "ins & outs" of dealing with the EPA & CARB Regulators.

Yet it will all get worked out eventually, and we can complain about it while we wait......

Yes, you are probably right about that. It has been a long time for a new submission and I am sure a lot has changed.

 

[dgrace]

Yet it will all get worked out eventually, and we can complain about it while we wait......

I think there is a non-zero chance that it won't get worked out and Lotus will just have to abandon the US market for the Emira V6. I don't think it's a high chance yet, but I think it's non-zero. And at this point I would not be surprised at all to get a call from my dealer with further bad news. How Not To Launch A Car.

 

[Nova]

I think there is a non-zero chance that it won't get worked out and Lotus will just have to abandon the US market for the Emira V6. I don't think it's a high chance yet, but I think it's non-zero. And at this point I would not be surprised at all to get a call from my dealer with further bad news. How Not To Launch A Car.

This was my thought as well. Even though I joked about it, it's a serious threat. If they can't meet the standard, they simply won't get the certification.

 

[MIGZ]

Yeah… they’re freakin’ geniuses. Too bad they couldn’t figure out how to get sample plates of the new FE colors to NA dealers BEFORE our configs were due.

Those swatches have to be bought by the dealer

 

[Porter]

The only thing I can say is that my Salesperson have been with Lotus like forever (at least since the Esprit days) as the dealership is one of the oldest in the area and he personally is a fan and owns a Evora and has the 1st reservation for a V6 FE at the dealership. Is there any specific things you wan to know? I can try to bug him for info.

Can you please, PLEASE stop with the wild speculation and "my dealer guy knows things" and such talk? We've been obsessively analyzing every single piece of information available globally for over 2 years now and I guarantee you your "dealer guy" has next to zero unique information.

In fact, as a dealer, he's likely kept more in the dark by Lotus than the average person who happens to schedule a tour at Lotus HQ in Hethel and then chats informally with the tour guide.

The things you've said here about production, about Toyota discontinuing production of the 2GR-FE, and other comments, are almost entirely unsupported by hard facts. Please stop speculating, or at least if you're going to speculate please moderate and qualify your comments clearly so people can tell the difference between what's actual information and what is a wild-ass guess.

 

[kin]

Can you please, PLEASE stop with the wild speculation and "my dealer guy knows things" and such talk? We've been obsessively analyzing every single piece of information available globally for over 2 years now and I guarantee you your "dealer guy" has next to zero unique information.

In fact, as a dealer, he's likely kept more in the dark by Lotus than the average person who happens to schedule a tour at Lotus HQ in Hethel and then chats informally with the tour guide.

The things you've said here about production, about Toyota discontinuing production of the 2GR-FE, and other comments, are almost entirely unsupported by hard facts. Please stop speculating, or at least if you're going to speculate please moderate and qualify your comments clearly so people can tell the difference between what's actual information and what is a wild-ass guess.

Agreed.

The past couple times I’ve called my dealer to ask about specific information I’ve found on this forum, he responded with “how are you getting this info before we are”.

And this is no indictment on my dealer, they have been amazing, but it appears that the communication between Lotus Cars USA and dealers are pretty opaque and they’re not always getting up-to-date information.

Unless a dealer has gone straight to Hethel and asked Lotus directly about NA production the only info they get is from Lotus USA and from everything we on the forum have seen for the past two years, Lotus USA - Lotus HQ has some serious communication problems. Who knows if it’s Lotus HQ not communicating or Lotus USA not communicating but the entire communication chain is a complete mess. The only viable info is from the factory.

 

[Porter]

So why is everyone speculating about all the reasons why certification for NA has not been approved.
My 2 pennies/cents worth is that Lotus screwed up on the initial application submitted. That was then thrown out and they had to resubmit the correct documentation.

The most senior person at Lotus USA told me directly that the US certification process wasn't started until after UK and EU approval was complete. Now, the reasons WHY they delayed the start of that certification process are unknown... I have a speculation that it's a strategic delay to hit EPA Tier 3 fleet averages with a combined first year simultaneous V6 and I4 build plan, but I don't have any direct evidence of that. It's an inference I'm making based on the specific numbers achieved by the same drivetrain in the Evora for the MY2021 EPA certification process.

I just simply don't believe that Lotus, as professionals, somehow didn't anticipate how much time it was going to take to get through EPA and CARB process, and the suggestion that that is the root of the whole delay... well, it just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

what other cars other than the Evora

You mean other than the Exige, Elise, Esprit, Elan, and every other car that's been homologated by Lotus for US sale in the past 30 years? This isn't a new set of hoops to jump through, the process hasn't materially changed. The primary thing that has changed in the past few years is the numeric targets for the emissions criteria.

I speculate that Lotus lost the required expertise in this field and is now re-learning the "ins & outs" of dealing with the EPA & CARB Regulators.

The same submission engineers are involved, it isn't a new team. Ian Cawdron is still the Principal Homologation Engineer and in the past has been the lead engineer for Type Approval. He's the same guy that's been on Lotus EPA submissions for more than the past decade. He keeps getting new bosses, but the guy has staying power. His old boss was Simon Wood, the Chief Technical Specialist and head of Type Approval, but Simon retired in July of 2021 and I believe he was replaced by James Eccleston who came over from Aston Martin in October of 2021. Eccleston was hired as Chief Engineer, Type Approval and then progressed to Head of Type Approval, which matches the title that was used previously by Simon Wood.

The Principal Engineer on the ICE vehicle development side is Mark MacDonald, some may remember him from the A New Dawn documentary. He's the guy responsible for all the ECU and TCU calibration for Lotus ICE cars, including both Emira V6 and Emira I4. He's also a listed EPA/CARB liaison together with Ian Cawdron, and participates directly in the homologation process.

Hope this helps.


[edit] Adding some more details to keep it in one place... there's also someone at Lotus UK named Sarah Way, who has a role called "Lead Engineer - Legislation". It looks like the structure of the team moved around a bit with Simon Wood's exit, because she was promoted from Senior Legislation Engineer to her current Lead Engineer role in Oct of 2021, just a few months after Simon Wood's retirement, and at some point in the past few years Ian Cawdron's title also changed from Lead Engineer to (now) Principal Homologation Engineer. There's also a second Principal Homologation Engineer named Brian Hope, who seems to be focused on homologation for new gen products like the Evija, and a Lead Engineer for Type Approval named Richard Clough (formerly at Williams) who also worked on Evija compliance. I don't know whether all four of these people are simply colleagues within a department or if there is a reporting hierarchy, but I suspect that they all report to James Eccleston. From what I'm able to tell, "Principal" is a director-level title at Lotus, and seems to be senior to a "Lead" designation.

I also suspect that Sarah Way is the same person listed as "Sarah Stewart" in the NHTSA database as the US Reporting Engineer, because Sarah Way's LinkedIn indicates that she previously held a role at Lotus called "US Certification/Reporting Engineer", and she has been at Lotus (with a 6 year break elsewhere) for a cumulative 17 years.

Any way you look at it, Lotus has a very experienced, very competent homologation team, staffed with people who have been doing this same process repeatedly for many years. There is just no way (in my opinion) that there is an ignorance gap at work in this process.

 

[Hell4Leather]

Agreed.

The past couple times I’ve called my dealer to ask about specific information I’ve found on this forum, he responded with “how are you getting this info before we are”.

And this is no indictment on my dealer, they have been amazing, but it appears that the communication between Lotus Cars USA and dealers are pretty opaque and they’re not always getting up-to-date information.

Unless a dealer has gone straight to Hethel and asked Lotus directly about NA production the only info they get is from Lotus USA and from everything we on the forum have seen for the past two years, Lotus USA - Lotus HQ has some serious communication problems. Who knows if it’s Lotus HQ not communicating or Lotus USA not communicating but the entire communication chain is a complete mess. The only viable info is from the factory.

Dealers get information at the same time as each other. Gator, Earth Motor, Tampa, etc. probably a day before or at the same time as a press release goes out. Seeing a car with amber headlights at a factory tour is a good indicator but not 100%. N/A is not the only place on earth that uses those but we are the largest user by a huge margin. Unfortunately I have seen them in parts of Asia. Whether or not they were imported that way I can’t say. A more seasoned traveler to those parts could chime in.

 

[Hell4Leather]

The most senior person at Lotus USA told me directly that the US certification process wasn't started until after UK and EU approval was complete. Now, the reasons WHY they delayed the start of that certification process are unknown... I have a speculation that it's a strategic delay to hit EPA Tier 3 fleet averages with a combined first year simultaneous V6 and I4 build plan, but I don't have any direct evidence of that. It's an inference I'm making based on the specific numbers achieved by the same drivetrain in the Evora for the MY2021 EPA certification process.

I just simply don't believe that Lotus, as professionals, somehow didn't anticipate how much time it was going to take to get through EPA and CARB process, and the suggestion that that is the root of the whole delay... well, it just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.


You mean other than the Exige, Elise, Esprit, Elan, and every other car that's been homologated by Lotus for US sale in the past 30 years? This isn't a new set of hoops to jump through, the process hasn't materially changed. The primary thing that has changed in the past few years is the numeric targets for the emissions criteria.


The same submission engineers are involved, it isn't a new team. Ian Cawdron is still the Principal Homologation Engineer and is the lead engineer for Type Approval. He's the same guy that's been on Lotus EPA submissions for more than the past decade. He keeps getting new bosses, but the guy has staying power. His old boss was Simon Wood, the Chief Technical Specialist and head of Type Approval, but Simon retired in July of 2021 and I'm not sure who replaced him.

The Principal Engineer on the development side is Mark MacDonald, some may remember him from the A New Dawn documentary. He's the guy responsible for all the ECU and TCU calibration for Lotus ICE cars, including both Emira V6 and Emira I4. He's also a listed EPA/CARB liaison together with Ian Cawdron, and participates directly in the homologation process.

Hope this helps.

Mic drop.l moment for you.

Also, I see all these comments about fumbling the launch. Guess they didn’t see the Elise launch fiasco, or the year 1 Evora. Or even better when the year 2 Evora came out with better stuff. I wanted this car for my milestone birthday in 2025. I told the dealer that when I placed my deposit in 2022 that there was no way the car was coming in before that.

 

[KAR120C]

**Big news**

And it's something positive this time.. US production has officially started! Yes, really.

Does that mean deliveries will actually happen this year? Who knows.. We're still waiting on certs/approvals, but this is a good sign for everyone who's been waiting.

*Removed the screenshot to keep my source anonymous as this is one of the first US builds and could be traced. For those wanting proof, you'll just have to take my word for it.

For three days I’ve been sort of lathered up about the potential US builds. I even told my wife! Now I’ve flatlined again. I hold you responsible for this.

Can you please release more tiny bits of possibly-true-factory-information every few days? I think you owe it to us.

 

[VL3X]

For three days I’ve been sort of lathered up about the potential US builds. I even told my wife! Now I’ve flatlined again. I hold you responsible for this.

Can you please release more tiny bits of possibly-true-factory-information every few days? I think you owe it to us.

They're back to China i4s.

Attempting to get back in your good graces by approving your username change.

 

[KAR120C]

They're back to China i4s.

Attempting to get back in your good graces by approving your username change.

Thanks! I feel better now. Any port in a storm...

 

[Maurice R]

The most senior person at Lotus USA told me directly that the US certification process wasn't started until after UK and EU approval was complete. Now, the reasons WHY they delayed the start of that certification process are unknown... I have a speculation that it's a strategic delay to hit EPA Tier 3 fleet averages with a combined first year simultaneous V6 and I4 build plan, but I don't have any direct evidence of that. It's an inference I'm making based on the specific numbers achieved by the same drivetrain in the Evora for the MY2021 EPA certification process.

I just simply don't believe that Lotus, as professionals, somehow didn't anticipate how much time it was going to take to get through EPA and CARB process, and the suggestion that that is the root of the whole delay... well, it just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.


You mean other than the Exige, Elise, Esprit, Elan, and every other car that's been homologated by Lotus for US sale in the past 30 years? This isn't a new set of hoops to jump through, the process hasn't materially changed. The primary thing that has changed in the past few years is the numeric targets for the emissions criteria.


The same submission engineers are involved, it isn't a new team. Ian Cawdron is still the Principal Homologation Engineer and in the past has been the lead engineer for Type Approval. He's the same guy that's been on Lotus EPA submissions for more than the past decade. He keeps getting new bosses, but the guy has staying power. His old boss was Simon Wood, the Chief Technical Specialist and head of Type Approval, but Simon retired in July of 2021 and I'm not sure who replaced him.

The Principal Engineer on the development side is Mark MacDonald, some may remember him from the A New Dawn documentary. He's the guy responsible for all the ECU and TCU calibration for Lotus ICE cars, including both Emira V6 and Emira I4. He's also a listed EPA/CARB liaison together with Ian Cawdron, and participates directly in the homologation process.

Hope this helps.


[edit] Adding a detail to keep it in one place... there's also someone at Lotus UK named Sarah Way, who has a role called "Lead Engineer - Legislation". It looks like the structure of the team moved around a bit with Simon Wood's exit, because she was promoted from Senior Legislation Engineer to her current Lead Engineer role in Oct of 2021, just a few months after Simon Wood's retirement, and at some point in the past few years Ian Cawdron's title also changed from Lead Engineer to (now) Principal Homologation Engineer. There's also a second Principal Homologation Engineer named Brian Hope, who seems to be focused on homologation for new gen products like the Evija. I don't know whether all three of these people are simply colleagues within a department or if there is a reporting hierarchy. From what I'm able to tell, "Principal" is a director-level title at Lotus.

I also suspect that Sarah Way is the same person listed as "Sarah Stewart" in the NHTSA database as the US Reporting Engineer, because Sarah Way's LinkedIn indicates that she previously held a role at Lotus called "US Certification/Reporting Engineer", and she has been at Lotus (with a 6 year break elsewhere) for a cumulative 17 years.

Any way you look at it, Lotus has a very experienced, very competent homologation team, staffed with people who have been doing this same process repeatedly for many years. There is just no way (in my opinion) that there is an ignorance gap at work in this process.

thank you for taking the time to put this detailed explanation together.
It’s much appreciated and I now have a better understanding.

 

[EspritGuy]

Mic drop.l moment for you.

Also, I see all these comments about fumbling the launch. Guess they didn’t see the Elise launch fiasco, or the year 1 Evora. Or even better when the year 2 Evora came out with better stuff. I wanted this car for my milestone birthday in 2025. I told the dealer that when I placed my deposit in 2022 that there was no way the car was coming in before that.

Interesting.
I'll bet your birthstone is Carbon Fiber.

 

[Wiz33]

Can you please, PLEASE stop with the wild speculation and "my dealer guy knows things" and such talk? We've been obsessively analyzing every single piece of information available globally for over 2 years now and I guarantee you your "dealer guy" has next to zero unique information.

In fact, as a dealer, he's likely kept more in the dark by Lotus than the average person who happens to schedule a tour at Lotus HQ in Hethel and then chats informally with the tour guide.

The things you've said here about production, about Toyota discontinuing production of the 2GR-FE, and other comments, are almost entirely unsupported by hard facts. Please stop speculating, or at least if you're going to speculate please moderate and qualify your comments clearly so people can tell the difference between what's actual information and what is a wild-ass guess.

Fine. I guess I'll shut up then as it really doesn't concern me as I'm getting an i4 . Just trying to be helpful. But just want to raise a point. How long has the dealership you're dealing with been a Lotus dealer and how long did your sales person worked for them. Mine dated back to the Esprit days and my guy was with them back then. I don't know who the Top Lotus person is but mine talks to the head of service in LA all the time.

Also, Did you dealer tell you why there's do few demo events nowadays. it's because of the 12 press car brought to the US, 4 have since been retired due to varies pre-production issues so there's like only 5-6 of them available since 2 are always at the service depot for training and such. And if you deal with a small or new Lotus dealership, You probably won't see a demo until the FE arrives as the dealership is now responsible to the transportation cost.

Actually the first dealership (which was a bit closer to me) was a newer one and the salesperson have no idea what's he's talking about, quoting me 3 years lead time and wants a $5K deposit so I went to my current after talking to the owner of my old SAAB dealer (which is currently a VW dealer) that I've known since 1984.

 

[dgrace]

...4 have since been retired

(*cough*) @kitkat test drive... (*cough*)

 

[kitkat]

 

[DerTheDer]

Hopefully we can get some updates soon.