USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[981KMAN]

Why should the majority of the United States be held to one states emission standards? Does not seem fair. Let California have their standards and just
don't sell in that state. The manufacturer simply clearly lists that the car in non-compliant to Calif standards on the Window sticker and the emissions sticker. If a buyer tries to register a non-compliant car in California, it will be denied. Should be the buyers responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

 

[Porter]

Why should the majority of the United States be held to one states emission standards? Does not seem fair. Let California have their standards and just
don't sell in that state. The manufacturer simply clearly lists that the car in non-compliant to Calif standards on the Window sticker and the emissions sticker. If a buyer tries to register a non-compliant car in California, it will be denied. Should be the buyers responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

California literally aren't allowed to apply their own standard that deviates from the EPA national standard. The EPA hit them with a serious rulemaking hammer a few years back and then flat-standardized the whole country on the existing "most strict" baseline which happened to be the CARB specs at that time. We're still in the transition period where other states are harmonizing their regulations with CARB, which is why so many have done so at this point... but the objective isn't to give California control over the national market. The objective is to make CARB itself obsolete (by superceding it nationally) without forcing California to rework their own regulations to something less environmentally sound.

The problem is that California has continued to attempt to exert direct market power over the broader US market by forcing manufacturers to certify against their own particular reading of the standards, and go through an independent process to do so. In particular California doesn't recognize the exceptions and waivers that EPA grants to certain small manufacturers (SVMs) and requires those companies to get their own special dispensation from CARB (the state agency) in order to sell in the California market. This is actually against the EPA's guidance and I fully expect there to be a federal-state regulatory fight about it in the next few years, because California is creating unnecessary market burden on smaller companies in a way that works extremely in favor of market incumbents without meaningfully adding any environmental protection value.

The other states that conform to CARB environmental standards aren't involved in this... it's not actually about CARB "standards" being different, because they aren't supposed to be different on paper. This certification delay issue that Lotus is experiencing is probably purely about qualification for a California strict compliance waiver on the basis of small volume manufacturing.

 

[Rupes]

Why should the majority of the United States be held to one states emission standards? Does not seem fair. Let California have their standards and just
don't sell in that state. The manufacturer simply clearly lists that the car in non-compliant to Calif standards on the Window sticker and the emissions sticker. If a buyer tries to register a non-compliant car in California, it will be denied. Should be the buyers responsibility to know what they are purchasing.

I thought you were no longer in the market for an Emira? Another glutton for punishment - just can't help it, huh?!

 

[kitkat]

 

[Jdmc21]

Well it’s not technically delivery news, but it falls into the progress camp:

My i4 allocation came up and I just submitted my spec to my dealer in California.

 

[981KMAN]

I thought you were no longer in the market for an Emira? Another glutton for punishment - just can't help it, huh?!

I stated that even though I am going the Porsche 992 path, " I will keep an eye out for an Emira".... Thus I am still interested in following the plight of Lotus bringing the Emira to North America (NA), the feedback from NA owners (assuming the Emira comes to NA), any quality or build issues, and the fixes/solution that Lotus provides. Purchasing a lightly used Emira in 2025/2026+ at a discount from MSRP is always an option, and with a new 992 in my future (2024), the timing works out well.

Regardless of any regulatory requirements in NA, the Emira is still a stunning vehicle visually, and I really hope Lotus gets their collective S__T together and produces a high quality and reliable Emira, plus offers upgraded Emira versions in 2025 and beyond. The Sports Car Community at large needs more offerings and competition!

Plus I enjoy reading all the "Off the Wall" comments from those forum members so close.... yet so far.... from obtaining an Emira. They have endured a lot of "Ups and Downs", and are trying to keep a positive view in a frustrating situation. My deposit spot was later (Mid 2022), so not an FE1 or FE2 deposit, and I have only endured half the wait time that many forum members have been through. I also hope that Lotus will have a local Dealership with-in an hour+ of my home in the future....... So, yes, I'm out for the moment, yet always keeping an eye on the Emira's journey.

 

[981KMAN]

California literally aren't allowed to apply their own standard that deviates from the EPA national standard..........

I do not believe your statement that California and Federal emission standards are the same. They have very different emission requirements, with Cali being much stricter. California can not have less strict emission standards, yet they can have more strict requirements, which they do.

From Carparts.com
What's the Difference Between Federal and California Emissions Standards?
Simply put, California emissions standards are much stricter than those implemented by the EPA.

Lots of the same on the EPA & CARB websites, yet you have to pull the details out. Clearly California has stricter vehicle emission standards than what the EPA requires.

 

[Rainier]

Anyone in the Baltimore area willing to risk a wild goose chase over to the ro-ro terminal on Weds/Thurs to see if anything of interest is driven off the Carmen vehicle carrier or visible in the lots ?

RO-RO / CAR Terminal, Port Of Baltimore · Baltimore, MD 21222

âââââ · Port authority

maps.app.goo.gl

 

[Porter]

I do not believe your statement that California and Federal emission standards are the same. They have very different emission requirements, with Cali being much stricter. California can not have less strict emission standards, yet they can have more strict requirements, which they do.

From Carparts.com
What's the Difference Between Federal and California Emissions Standards?
Simply put, California emissions standards are much stricter than those implemented by the EPA.

Lots of the same on the EPA & CARB websites, yet you have to pull the details out. Clearly California has stricter vehicle emission standards than what the EPA requires.

I'm probably not expressing the nuance clearly, and also those sites are now out of date. What's happening is that the EPA is working to harmonize all of the state regulations to match CARB, and states are signing on progressively to do so. The strict federal requirement has been on a ratcheting schedule to meet the same targets for exactly that reason. In the meantime, the EPA warned CA CARB that they should not produce any new emissions target requirements at the state level, but should hew to the existing published federal standard if/when it exceeds the current CARB limits, which I believe is happening now, or possibly next year. This is a transition period and we are now at the end of a 7-year progressive (per year step increase) set of federal emissions target changes.

 

[MIGZ]

Anyone in the Baltimore area willing to risk a wild goose chase over to the ro-ro terminal on Weds/Thurs to see if anything of interest is driven off the Carmen vehicle carrier or visible in the lots ?

RO-RO / CAR Terminal, Port Of Baltimore · Baltimore, MD 21222

âââââ · Port authority

maps.app.goo.gl

Getting a drone in the air would be cool

 

[DerTheDer]

Getting a drone in the air would be cool

I got that covered!

 

[Rainier]

I got that covered!

If there's a drone sized dent in my roof, I'll know who to go after

 

[MIGZ]

I got that covered!

You know what’s crazy is that after you spot cars their will still be a few people on here doubting the cars are for the US market.

 

[Nova]

You know what’s crazy is that after you spot cars their will still be a few people on here doubting the cars are for the US market.

You act like we haven't been waiting through a string of broken promises for over two years. I also don't see anyone doubting that US cars have been manufactured - the question is how many customer cars have been made. No one can tell us.

 

[Hell4Leather]

Question. May belong in this thread, maybe not. There’s a video of the Emira on the Asian deliveries that shows the Emira going more than slightly faster that we were told the NA spec will be. Can anyone confirm if the car in the video is actually doing 3.7 to 60mph. i4 or V6 wasn’t listed to go that fast.

 

[Wiz33]

Question. May belong in this thread, maybe not. There’s a video of the Emira on the Asian deliveries that shows the Emira going more than slightly faster that we were told the NA spec will be. Can anyone confirm if the car in the video is actually doing 3.7 to 60mph. i4 or V6 wasn’t listed to go that fast.

Yes but that's a 400/405hp I4 for the Chinese market from this video

 

[MIGZ]

You act like we haven't been waiting through a string of broken promises for over two years. I also don't see anyone doubting that US cars have been manufactured - the question is how many customer cars have been made. No one can tell us.

I'm thrilled the US cars have been delayed because hopefully most of the teething issues will have been sorted. Im in a market with a small dealer that I hope to not have to go visit regularly.

Many of the delays and issues faced by Lotus in other markets would be close to being Lemon law in the US. I don't want that reputation for the car in the US.

I have always stayed positive because the delays mean absolutely nothing to me , my life doesn't change and I can't control the out come so its really a first world problem.

I choose to be optimistic of cars headed this way and it if falls though oh well, again nothing changes. I saw cars at the factory if I tell you 10 or 100 does not matter.

99% of the people will forget the wait once the car is in hand , then why bother getting worked up.

 

[KCMO68_510]

I'm thrilled the US cars have been delayed because hopefully most of the teething issues will have been sorted. Im in a market with a small dealer that I hope to not have to go visit regularly.

Many of the delays and issues faced by Lotus in other markets would be close to being Lemon law in the US. I don't want that reputation for the car in the US.

I have always stayed positive because the delays mean absolutely nothing to me , my life doesn't change and I can't control the out come so its really a first world problem.

I choose to be optimistic of cars headed this way and it if falls though oh well, again nothing changes. I saw cars at the factory if I tell you 10 or 100 does not matter.

99% of the people will forget the wait once the car is in hand , then why bother getting worked up.

If you did not personally hand build the car while at the factory and drive it across the Atlantic ocean and personally get it CARB certified, all while streaming live & holding a sign with today's date that says "It's me, MIGZ!"...how do I know I can trust your info?

 

[Nova]

I'm thrilled the US cars have been delayed because hopefully most of the teething issues will have been sorted. Im in a market with a small dealer that I hope to not have to go visit regularly.

Many of the delays and issues faced by Lotus in other markets would be close to being Lemon law in the US. I don't want that reputation for the car in the US.

I have always stayed positive because the delays mean absolutely nothing to me , my life doesn't change and I can't control the out come so its really a first world problem.

I choose to be optimistic of cars headed this way and it if falls though oh well, again nothing changes. I saw cars at the factory if I tell you 10 or 100 does not matter.

99% of the people will forget the wait once the car is in hand , then why bother getting worked up.

I don't see why your optimistic outlook need to cause you to be snarky towards those who are more cautious about the likely delivery schedule of US spec customer cars. That doesn't strike me as having a positive attitude if you feel the need to put others down.

I also view the delay as have a pro/con balance. I also do not want an early production car and would rather that they work out as many issues as possible.

 

[Nova]

If you did not personally hand build the car while at the factory and drive it across the Atlantic ocean and personally get it CARB certified, all while streaming live & holding a sign with today's date that says "It's me, MIGZ!"...how do I know I can trust your info?

I don't see anyone doubting what MIGZ has shared in terms of what he has observed first hand. The questions surround what we can infer from his (and others') observations in terms of the estimated scale of US car production underway. Let's remember that Scott's email *after* MIGZ's report claims that he saw his first US spec car being completed. The confusion that ensued among some of us was justified.