Audio thread- to KEF or not to KEF?

[seriously]

It’s probably just been disconnected and here’s why I say this - I attempted to gain access to mine, and without removing the complete dashboard, it’s impossible…
The manual says you should be able to simply prise off the speaker cover - I tried, but it’s all plastic and very close to the windscreen, and so with parts not being readily available I decided to leave it be. There is no space to fit anything but another 3” speaker.
Leaving it connected wasn’t really an option either as the quality of the other speakers now installed would far out perform it.
Now with tweeters in the A pillars, 6.5” in the doors, 5” coaxials in the rear and a 10” sub, in my opinion, it’s really not required anymore.

I’m guessing the center speaker gives the KEF system the forward bias sound stage.

Is the sound stage more neutral or in your ear with your new system without center speaker? That would be my preference.

 

[Beachbum]

How easy is it to install speakers in the A-Pilar? Is it possible with the existing KEF Premium system still in use i.e. Add the A-Pilar speakers to it
Is the wiring in place and just a matter of installing speakers, or is it more intrusive than that?

 

[Nova]

How easy is it to install speakers in the A-Pilar? Is it possible with the existing KEF Premium system still in use i.e. Add the A-Pilar speakers to it
Is the wiring in place and just a matter of installing speakers, or is it more intrusive than that?

I wouldn't recommend adding tweeters into the A-pillar area if you are keeping the stock KEF drivers. The KEF drivers are time-aligned and the overall system is integrated through DSP processing. Any speakers you add to the A-pillar will not be time aligned and integrated unless you completely replace all of the electronics and re-tune everything.

All modifications to the sound system should really start with the question "what do you not like about it" and go from there. If you can't point to anything in particular, a whole system replacement may be the way to go.

 

[Nova]

again - doesn't mention the centre speaker.... weird....

Yea, really odd. Not sure what that's about. Maybe it's a limitation on the model of Audisson processor/amp they chose. I'm not familiar with Audisson equipment but that's what I'd guess. The wires are there and it would have been relatively "simple" to just hook the stock drivers back up if the processor/amp supported it. It does take two additional amplifier channels to drive the center... so... maybe they just didn't want to do it.

IMO, a center channel is a must have for any modern car audio system.

 

[centerpunch]

It does take two additional amplifier channels to drive the center... so... maybe they just didn't want to do it.

So is the center a dual voice coil speaker?

I'm not interested in a center speaker for my music, will probably change to 6.5 in doors and tweeters in A pillars. Might hook up the center speaker to radar detector audio.

 

[Nova]

So is the center a dual voice coil speaker?

I'm not interested in a center speaker for my music, will probably change to 6.5 in doors and tweeters in A pillars. Might hook up the center speaker to radar detector audio.

No, the center channel is another Uni-Q driver, which consists of a midrange and a tweeter. There is no crossover so you will need two amplifier channels. I guess you could build an analog crossover to reduce the amplifier channel requirement down to 1, but that takes additional engineering/know-how which most car audio shops lack.

All modern integrated car audio systems depend on a center channel for proper front sound stage placement. Without it, your sound stage will be biased off to one side and your music will sound like it's coming from the doors - it can be very distracting.

 

[centerpunch]

We all have different preferences, but for my old school brain and ears, installing tweeters in the A pillars will move the soundstage from the doors to the horizon, where it belongs. Once left and right are up there, I will not need a center speaker.

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

I wouldn't recommend adding tweeters into the A-pillar area if you are keeping the stock KEF drivers. The KEF drivers are time-aligned and the overall system is integrated through DSP processing. Any speakers you add to the A-pillar will not be time aligned and integrated unless you completely replace all of the electronics and re-tune everything.

All modifications to the sound system should really start with the question "what do you not like about it" and go from there. If you can't point to anything in particular, a whole system replacement may be the way to go.

I think the mid range sounds a bit muddy. I don’t mind the bass or the treble. What do you suggest?

 

[Nova]

We all have different preferences, but for my old school brain and ears, installing tweeters in the A pillars will move the soundstage from the doors to the horizon, where it belongs. Once left and right are up there, I will not need a center speaker.

That's not how sound stage height works. When it comes to sound, trust your ears, not your eyes. Sit in the car and play your favorite music. Close your eyes and see if you can determine where the sound is coming from. Are they coming from in front of you or from your knees?

Don't fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Nova]

I think the mid range sounds a bit muddy. I don’t mind the bass or the treble. What do you suggest?

You can try setting the bass output down by 1 to 2 notches. Typically this helps clearing up the clarity in the mid range.

Most sound quality issues are related to tonal balance. It's very rare for there to be actual significant non-linear distortion. The KEF system doesn't seem to be an exception in this case so I would try turning down the bass and listening to it for a while. Try to avoid significant EQ changes. Our ears takes time to get accustomed to changes in sound. If you make changes that sounds "right" in the short term, it will sound excessive in the long term. So small gradual changes. Don't change anything unless you have a specific target, such as clearer mid range.

 

[centerpunch]

Thanks, Obi-wan, but I’ve installed dozens of car audio systems, and at age 69, I don’t need any education regarding the center speaker I don’t need or want, or help understanding that, duh, we use our ears and not our eyes to sense sound stage location.

Don't fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Nova]

Thanks, Obi-wan, but I’ve installed dozens of car audio systems, and at age 69, I don’t need any education regarding the center speaker I don’t need or want, or help understanding that, duh, we use our ears and not our eyes to sense sound stage location.

Don't fix something that isn't broken.

??? You asked me a question and I responded. If you are not interested in what I have to say, just move on.

 

[KJWEmira]

I’m guessing the center speaker gives the KEF system the forward bias sound stage.

Is the sound stage more neutral or in your ear with your new system without center speaker? That would be my preference.

Yes - The KEF system needs that center speaker.

After the audio upgrade the sound stage is much more improved thanks to the Audison amp as its completely programmable via a laptop allowing you to individually set each speaker to your liking, which includes the distances of each speaker. Obviously, the quality of speakers also plays a part. The Hertz Mille ML 280.3 tweeters I utilized retail for around £260.

It's worth taking a look on Youtube at Audison, they have their own channel explaining all their Amp features and 5 tutorials of how to program, which are a game changer for integration.

 

[KJWEmira]

How easy is it to install speakers in the A-Pilar? Is it possible with the existing KEF Premium system still in use i.e. Add the A-Pilar speakers to it
Is the wiring in place and just a matter of installing speakers, or is it more intrusive than that?

As Nova has said and I also wouldn't advise doing this unless you're changing everything and adding an additional Amp.

We offer anyone local (I'm in the Kent area) the opportunity to visit us at home to demo the audio upgrade. Unfortunately, my car is currently away for Xmas having 2 new doors fitted, but let me know should this be of interest to you and we'll make this happen.

 

[KJWEmira]

So is the center a dual voice coil speaker?

I'm not interested in a center speaker for my music, will probably change to 6.5 in doors and tweeters in A pillars. Might hook up the center speaker to radar detector audio.

To answer your question - The center speaker is the same as what are installed to the doors.

 

[MPD]

As Nova has said and I also wouldn't advise doing this unless you're changing everything and adding an additional Amp.

We offer anyone local (I'm in the Kent area) the opportunity to visit us at home to demo the audio upgrade. Unfortunately, my car is currently away for Xmas having 2 new doors fitted, but let me know should this be of interest to you and we'll make this happen.

@KJWEmira To me, this is not a very good system compared to many other vehicles I own/have owned. I was thinking of upgrading the front/rear speakers (with the 3d brackets) and adding tweeters BUT not adding an additional amp nor replacing the 'sub'. I don't spend enough time in the car to want to invest thousands on audio but would like it to sound better and not have to turn it up so much to hear which then isn't crystal clear.

Is this still worthwhile endeavor even if not replacing everything? I am going to apply some sound deadening that should at least help some

 

[KJWEmira]

@KJWEmira To me, this is not a very good system compared to many other vehicles I own/have owned. I was thinking of upgrading the front/rear speakers (with the 3d brackets) and adding tweeters BUT not adding an additional amp nor replacing the 'sub'. I don't spend enough time in the car to want to invest thousands on audio but would like it to sound better and not have to turn it up so much to hear which then isn't crystal clear.

Is this still worthwhile endeavor even if not replacing everything? I am going to apply some sound deadening that should at least help some

Hi MPD,

Sorry for the late reply….

Honestly, I don’t believe the OEM Amps would be powerful enough to run larger speakers & produce the end result you seek - those amps just about run the factory system.
The OEM Sub quality was a real issue for me, just substandard and a poor design.

Some have solely added tweeters to the A-Pillars, and others have added a separate Amp’d subwoofer. I cannot comment on these modifications because I haven’t personally heard the system after.

I’m suggesting a full upgrade unfortunately, as I want owners to be overly impressed after - I also don’t want you to spend money on the adaptors and then be disappointed..

The Audison Amp I suggest is very powerful and fully programable / customizable. Integration with the OEM amps is key here and that’s what Audison specialise in.

Sorry this may not be the answer you were looking for, I just want to be straight up with you.

Adding sound deadening to the doors and rear compartment will help with road & exhaust noise reduction within the cabin.

Thanks

 

[MPD]

@KJWEmira Thanks for the honest response. I assumed that was the case but maybe was hoping for something different I already have everything apart getting to the seatbelts and would be a great time to do this. I haven't done audio upgrades since I was in college so that was quite a while ago. Just a little worried about being able to wire in the new amp, new sub, and then reconnect everything. But I hate paying someone for something that I know I could do if I spent enough time. The audio really is crappy for me but not sure how long I can keep the car torn apart to redo the audio. ugh

 

[KJWEmira]

@KJWEmira Thanks for the honest response. I assumed that was the case but maybe was hoping for something different I already have everything apart getting to the seatbelts and would be a great time to do this. I haven't done audio upgrades since I was in college so that was quite a while ago. Just a little worried about being able to wire in the new amp, new sub, and then reconnect everything. But I hate paying someone for something that I know I could do if I spent enough time. The audio really is crappy for me but not sure how long I can keep the car torn apart to redo the audio. ugh

Not a problem, & thank you for your feedback.

It's worth mentioning that with the kit we provide a wiring color code document. This has all the details you'll need to complete the install, (all speaker wire colors, and from which of the two OEM Amps they are fed from), therefore saving hours of identifying and tracing wires to each speaker.

Audison also supply their easy to follow documentation, and the amp comes with all the plugs & connections. All that is required is to join the wire colors our document highlights to their input channels. I've attached a couple of pictures - You'll see the wiring colors from Audison are printed on the bottom of the amp. The other picture is their wiring schematic.