Emira performance - disappointing?

[Eagle7]

Will definitely do this. I will go with their 440 tune at some point. How much would installation be you think?

Not sure on that. Since Lotus uses the basic engine as-is from Toyota, you could check with a Toyota dealer or performance shop to see what they would charge to just replace the valve springs.

 

[Hell4Leather]

Not sure on that. Since Lotus uses the basic engine as-is from Toyota, you could check with a Toyota dealer or performance shop to see what they would charge to just replace the valve springs.

That’s not true. The Lotus version has different injectors and exhaust cams. Of course the oil cooler is different as well.

 

[seriously]

Still prefer supercharger over turbo in a mid engine car. The power delivery is more N/A like and since it is belt driven a bit less boosty, better throttle modulation.

That said superchargers feel old now that turbos are so sophisticated. Modern day turbos build huge boost and torque very low - say 1500 rpm - and then run out of breath. That said, I think the setup for the emira is perfect. Safely building out the Toyota platform and delivering a more linear driving experience. From a numbers perspective 400 hp, nearly 320 tq and weighing 3200 lbs is pretty damn good. I remember thinking anything over 1:10 ratio feels like you can really move the weight, this is already well past that. And while the weight is there so are the creature comforts. A very reasonable compromise for a truly stunning design.

The rev cutoff is stupid. Feels thoughtless. It should bounce or be softer. That’s something to address with a tune.

To the guy shifting at 3500, that’s too low. You are not going to experience the power unless you are in the upper half of the range regularly. Shifting at 3500 is better for modern turbos where you are already max torque at that point. I bet you would enjoy the i4 turbo more than the v6 with that style of driving. It will probably feel faster and more alive around town.

The rpm limit is something that is honestly disappointing. 6800 feels unusually low. It should really be 7000 minimum. I may just have to recalibrate my brain. I usually think of the last 4k as the fun range. A tune might help with the upper RPM limit but it may also help to widen the feeling of the upper power band so the RPM limit doesn’t feel as restrictive. Not sure if that makes sense but if you have a really peaky engine that only makes power at the top end you are going to feel like - damn it why can’t this engine rev higher! But if that power band is wider you are going to feel like you have enough room to play and build max power before the next shift.

 

[Eagle7]

Still prefer supercharger over turbo in a mid engine car. The power delivery is more N/A like and since it is belt driven a bit less boosty, better throttle modulation.

That said superchargers feel old now that turbos are so sophisticated. Modern day turbos build huge boost and torque very low - say 1500 rpm - and then run out of breath. That said, I think the setup for the emira is perfect. Safely building out the Toyota platform and delivering a more linear driving experience. From a numbers perspective 400 hp, nearly 320 tq and weighing 3200 lbs is pretty damn good. I remember thinking anything over 1:10 ratio feels like you can really move the weight, this is already well past that. And while the weight is there so are the creature comforts. A very reasonable compromise for a truly stunning design.

The rev cutoff is stupid. Feels thoughtless. It should bounce or be softer. That’s something to address with a tune.

To the guy shifting at 3500, that’s too low. You are not going to experience the power unless you are in the upper half of the range regularly. Shifting at 3500 is better for modern turbos where you are already max torque at that point. I bet you would enjoy the i4 turbo more than the v6 with that style of driving. It will probably feel faster and more alive around town.

The rpm limit is something that is honestly disappointing. 6800 feels unusually low. It should really be 7000 minimum. I may just have to recalibrate my brain. I usually think of the last 4k as the fun range. A tune might help with the upper RPM limit but it may also help to widen the feeling of the upper power band so the RPM limit doesn’t feel as restrictive. Not sure if that makes sense but if you have a really peaky engine that only makes power at the top end you are going to feel like - damn it why can’t this engine rev higher! But if that power band is wider you are going to feel like you have enough room to play and build max power before the next shift.

3500 may be too low if you're going for power, but not if you're just driving around town in traffic.

 

[David s]

That’s my problem. It looks great in the rear view of the R8, 911, Vantage, 570S, MC20, NSX, and even a damn C8 that blows right on by.

Sure. As long as there are no curves.

 

[Eagle7]

Sure. As long as there are no curves.

If somebody wants to 'blow by' me, I'm always happy to let them do that as I think it's very considerate of them to volunteer to be radar bait. More than once I've come up over a rise or around a corner and there they are pulled over by a radar cop.

 

[Eagle7]

That’s not true. The Lotus version has different injectors and exhaust cams. Of course the oil cooler is different as well.

I remember somebody posting that they visited the factory and was told Lotus uses the basic engine block with accessories as they're delivered from Toyota. They of course put the supercharger on, and use their own ECU and tuning, but they don't do any internal engine modifications as far as I know. I'll have to see if I can find that post, it was somebody who had done a factory tour.

 

[KAR120C]

I remember somebody posting that they visited the factory and was told Lotus uses the basic engine block with accessories as they're delivered from Toyota. They of course put the supercharger on, and use their own ECU and tuning, but they don't do any internal engine modifications as far as I know. I'll have to see if I can find that post, it was somebody who had done a factory tour.

I took one. There are no internal mods to the engine. The transmission gets internal and external mods. .

 

[David s]

Well, a 2021 Supra does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. I guess we should all be buying that car, which is half the cost.

I guess you missed the youtube pod on the drag race between the supra, BMWM2, Mustang and the Emira. The emira was quickest of the bunch on the 0-60MPH at 4.1 sec.

 

[VL3X]

I remember somebody posting that they visited the factory and was told Lotus uses the basic engine block with accessories as they're delivered from Toyota. They of course put the supercharger on, and use their own ECU and tuning, but they don't do any internal engine modifications as far as I know. I'll have to see if I can find that post, it was somebody who had done a factory tour.

Engine is stock. Fueling, supercharger, and tune are the only tweaks done by Lotus (intake and exhaust as well obviously).

 

[David s]

Well, a 2021 Supra does 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. I guess we should all be buying that car, which is half the cost.

I guess you missed the youtube pod on the drag race between the supra, BMWM2, Mustang and the Emira. The emira was quickest of the bunch on the 0-60MPH at 4.1 sec.

Not at all, never thought it would be the fastest ever. I knew it would be the best driving and the best to drive. I’m not a Lotus noob. I have a model de Havilland Mosquito just so so I can tell that F1 story. However, that doesn’t mean that the Emira shouldn’t at least post up numbers from where the last models were. You know, the ones with the same engine and drivetrain. If they offered it at 430hp with an auto doing 3.8 like the Evora then it’s really a non issue. But a 5 second car, manual or not, with what can only now be described as a comedically large amount of issues is not acceptable. Do understand I WANT this car. But it’s shaping up like we got catfished.

maybe only those with the actual car should be discussing things like “how well it goes”. Here down under, we have been driving Emira for about 10 months. Stacks of us have them. And no one is complaining about any “lack of power”, or “multiple issues”.
I’m starting to think that maybe it’s an American thing to complain and bitch about something that they don’t own yet.
I think the tune will change a bit once you get these things delivered to your garages.

 

[David s]

I couldnt care less about straight line performance but the thing is, the emira also doesnt deliver in the handling departement either (as the published tracktimes so far showed), which is just disappointing…

And I guess you have driven one extensively and found this out yourself?
“Public tracktimes” are a poor measure to rely on.

 

[David s]

I'll never understand this about the Emira. I can't think of any other sportscar manufacturer who's released a successor with less power and I don't buy the emissions excuse. Leaning out a tune typically results in more power with less fuel being burned, improved MPG, and fewer greenhouse gases released.

1985 Porsche 911 carerra, to 1986 Porsche 911 Carerra. Power drop in new model due to carbon crap.

 

[David s]

All this waffle about the drivetrain and acceleration numbers…. I’ve picked up my Emira now, coming out of a 996.2 GT3 which has exactly the same 0-62 (100kph).

I can tell you the Emira feels stronger in the midrange and every bit as quick as the similarly figured Porsche. It’s also shorter geared which suits our roads better.

There will be a GT430/S model on shortly…

Finally. A comment from a real owner. Not some punter wannabe.

 

[David s]

It still amazes me how GREAT the Emira performance is.
This is a very fast car. I travel a lot with 812 Comps, Speciales, Performantes.
Never been close to being left behind on the road and it is a beast on the track too.

I don't get all this hunt for an extra 0.2s 0-62MPH or 400 more revs.
The car is fantastic and absolutely perfect performance for the road and price.

I think we will be seeing more posts like this one once our American brothers start getting their cars.

 

[Steve24]

I think we will be seeing more posts like this one once our American brothers start getting their cars.

Agreed. I took mine out for a nice drive yesterday through the Adelaide hills and Barossa valley.
This car is properly quick. I’m coming out of a Ferrari (admittedly an old one, but I’ve driven several of the new ones too) and the Emira lacks absolutely nothing in real world driving on public roads.

In my view anyone who needs to drive faster than the Emira can deliver on a public road is probably driving like the kind of wanker who gives sports car drivers a bad name.

 

[scc.131.fe]

my .02 from. a road car perspective: if the journalists all published that the emira had a 3.8s 0-60 time and we were back in the days of print media and tv only , 100% of owners would have a preformed opinion that the car is "really fast" and their time in the seat would not diminish that impression. I'd guess that 60-70% of owners with a manual trans will not often do a 0-60.

The "outside" impression that the car is fast or slow happens if/when you decide to race Needles in the car/truck next to you. Guess what, Needles is a proud grandfather now and drives an EV that does a 3.5s sprint. If that makes you feel slow, give in to the craze and get an Emeya or Eletre.

Now, I do see the value in everyone having their own "fun" meter for how the car makes progression based on torque curve, gearing, sounds, etc. No one can say thay this car is universally fun. But many of us are voting with our own money...

 

[ManOfSteel]

If somebody wants to 'blow by' me, I'm always happy to let them do that as I think it's very considerate of them to volunteer to be radar bait. More than once I've come up over a rise or around a corner and there they are pulled over by a radar cop.

Ditto, I call them "the rabbit". I stopped taking stupid dares and succumbing to peer pressure in 9th grade.

 

[Porter]

I’m starting to think that maybe it’s an American thing to complain and bitch about something that they don’t own yet.
I think the tune will change a bit once you get these things delivered to your garages.

It's not an American thing, it's just this guy.

Just like I assume all Australians aren't Chopper Read.

 

[Lotus64]

Maybe only those with the actual car should be discussing things like “how well it goes”. Here down under, we have been driving Emira for about 10 months. Stacks of us have them. And no one is complaining about any “lack of power”, or “multiple issues”.

Tell them!!!

Tired of outsiders flooding this forum with negative discourse. The Emira is quick.
If 0-60 in 4.1-4.3 is too slow, either tune the car or show yourself the door.