Emira should have started with 450hp.

[Lots_Of_Trouble]

I see a pattern here.
Quite often it's our friend's over the pond that are complaining about not enough horsepower..

I put this down to:
1)The US has an absurd amount of long straight roads,where aero lines aren't key,its all about POWWWERRRR
2)It's a country brought up on muscle cars that are huge ,bulky, and need a tonne of horses to get it moving

Us mellow Brits and Europeans,whilst enjoy a few horses,have many more twisty country lanes that suit the lines of a piece of art like the Emira.

*Remember, this applies to some not all...

 

[xen]

I’ve expressed my opinions on this already. I’d personally amend the title to read

“The Emira could have started with 430bhp”

- Which for me would have been great. No additional developememt costs, little to no additional effort. Simple copy and paste. The reason it’s not isn’t for any driving or country road or perfect balance reasons…it’s simply profit and the bottom line.

To address some odd comments:

The Evora 430 is faster around Hethel than the Emira so no…the Emira isn’t blanket quicker. I’d even take the Emira faster claim with a pinch of salt considering its additional weight and softer suspicion (the touring spec anyway)

The comparison is often made with the first Evora and how that was slower. That’s rubbish. Lotus didn’t start out with a 430hp Evora and lop off the super charger to create a first edition model. They started with the best they had and iterated their way up. With the Emira they’re detuning the engine intentionally to make room for a later S/GT model - huge difference. No issues with this from a business perspective but let’s not deceive ourselves.

For balance you could apply this to many marques. The base 911 could have launched with GTS power (and brakes and suspension) but didn’t. Same across the BMW and AMG stables - SL 55 and 63 come to mind. This isn’t new or uncommon and makes sense from a business perspective.

As a consumer however spending my hard earned money I’ll always want and advocate for the best I can have and I really really would have liked a quicker car. Maybe even launch both at the same time so those that want to spend the extra 10K get the car they want and those that don’t don’t…this is the sentiment I feel some are trying to express here.

Edit - I’ve read another reason is down to emissions which doesn’t make sense if there is a GT / S variant in the works.

 

[Tailslides]

After reading lots of posts I know that 90% of you are fully content with 400hp in the Emira.
I personally feel Lotus should have at least bettered their latest Evora hp numbers, even offering 435ph to start with.
I've never seen any other manufacturer downgrade their hp numbers on their newest model.
It's a pretty sad day when a slightly tuned hot hatch like the Toyota GR Yaris can out accelerate a $100,000+ CDN Lotus sports car.
If I'm ever going to go to the local dragstrip, I'll have to think long and hard, and probably take my hopefully soon to be GR Corolla if I want the best time.
Come on Lotus, if Chevy can offer a manual transmission in their 755hp Corvette C7 ZR1 without it imploding, you can do at least 450hp.

Who would take an Emira to a drag strip?

 

[denk0815]

To be honest, I can understand both sides of the argument but the view that 400hp is enough tends to be fanboy talk.
Especially since most new Lotus customers, including myself, don't choose between the Emira and the Evora, but rather between the Emira and a counterpart from Zuffenhausen or Affalterbach.

I was therefore also faced with the two options of tuning the i4 or waiting for a later iteration. After all, the market has already proven that the M139 is capable of well over 500 hp.

In the meantime, I have each come to the following decision:
I'll take the i4 FE, keep it stock and hope that in 4 or 8 years there will be a Last Edition which I will then trade in for my First Edition.

 

[EspritGuy]

Who would take an Emira to a drag strip?

Have we wasted enough time on this OP supposition?
It's a new world of emission regulations and taxation, particularly for a world car. It's also assumed iterations are coming after the FE kit. If unhappy with 400HP wait for other versions, get the i4 and tune it and hope it will pass registration and inspection, or just get any of the purported superior alternatives. There's always electric which is looking faster and arguably cheaper. Make yourself happy if this Emira doesn't. However this one deserves your attention for its strengths not its presumed faults, especially as the last of a breed. Buy it for what it is, not isn't. That's the reason this Forum engages.

 

[roundincircles]

I’ve expressed my opinions on this already. I’d personally amend the title to read

“The Emira could have started with 430bhp”

- Which for me would have been great. No additional developememt costs, little to no additional effort. Simple copy and paste. The reason it’s not isn’t for any driving or country road or perfect balance reasons…it’s simply profit and the bottom line.

To address some odd comments:

The Evora 430 is faster around Hethel than the Emira so no…the Emira isn’t blanket quicker. I’d even take the Emira faster claim with a pinch of salt considering its additional weight and softer suspicion (the touring spec anyway)

The comparison is often made with the first Evora and how that was slower. That’s rubbish. Lotus didn’t start out with a 430hp Evora and lop off the super charger to create a first edition model. They started with the best they had and iterated their way up. With the Emira they’re detuning the engine intentionally to make room for a later S/GT model - huge difference. No issues with this from a business perspective but let’s not deceive ourselves.

For balance you could apply this to many marques. The base 911 could have launched with GTS power (and brakes and suspension) but didn’t. Same across the BMW and AMG stables - SL 55 and 63 come to mind. This isn’t new or uncommon and makes sense from a business perspective.

As a consumer however spending my hard earned money I’ll always want and advocate for the best I can have and I really really would have liked a quicker car. Maybe even launch both at the same time so those that want to spend the extra 10K get the car they want and those that don’t don’t…this is the sentiment I feel some are trying to express here.

Edit - I’ve read another reason is down to emissions which doesn’t make sense if there is a GT / S variant in the works.

Yes, car producers often upgrade new models. Porsche often make their new 911 match the previous iteration ‘S’ model bhp. However I suspect the Emira S will be 43x bhp and the Emira RS 45x bhp with decent premiums……it’s about harvesting cash, why would Lotus not do that…..it’s a commercial enterprise!

 

[Leonard]

Said it before, but will say it again. The Emira is pitched at the 718 GTS and S. Why would it have/need 450bhp....
Most modern hot hatches when tuned are faster or as fast as most supercars. 4wd plus 1400kg, plus Duel clutch, plus launch control, plus 450bhp+ is 0-60 in sub 3.5 sec territory

 

[frazzer]

Had something to do with emissions on the up-tuned V6 apparently, 400hp was the sweet spot

 

[JXJ]

If you feel you need more power there are tuning options for the V6 available for the Evora and Exige available; they use same engine/gearbox as the Emira. I am sure these will be adapted for the Emira and available very soon after Emira deliveries start. Personally I think 400hp is enough

 

[roundincircles]

Said it before, but will say it again. The Emira is pitched at the 718 GTS and S. Why would it have/need 450bhp....
Most modern hot hatches when tuned are faster or as fast as most supercars. 4wd plus 1400kg, plus Duel clutch, plus launch control, plus 450bhp+ is 0-60 in sub 3.5 sec territory

Porsche 718 Cayman GTS 4.0

Guaranteed by the powerful 4.0-litre six-cylinder naturally aspirated engine with its full 294kW (400PS) at 7,000rpm. The maximum torque: 420Nm. Combined. That's 394 bhp, as you say Emira matched 718 GTS.

 

[LotusB]

I'll just put this here:

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

Excuse making is defined here as the process of shifting causal attributions for negative personal outcomes from sources that are relatively more central to the person's sense of self to sources that are relatively less central, thereby resulting in perceived benefits to the person's image and sense of control. This definition is used to examine the image- and control-related effects of excuse making on the variables of emotional states (self-esteem, anxiety, depression), health, and performance. Generally, excuse making appears to have positive benefits for the excuse giver. The sequence of events whereby excuses work to maintain the individual's image and sense of control at the personal and interpersonal levels is also analyzed. Finally, excuse making is placed in the context of a larger reality-negotiation process that rests on the maintenance of adaptive illusions.

Of course this can apply to many things in life. People are ok with (and defend) 400hp because that's all we're getting. If the car came with 450hp (or more realistically ~416hp or 430hp, due to mechanical limitations) nobody here would complain. But as soon as you ask why we didn't get it upfront? Well...the excuse train starts. People make excuses to feel like they're in control.

Ironically what I see on these forums is that there are usually two camps: those who make and/or need the excuses and those who see these excuses as "problematic when they raise questions about the actor's sincerity, cause the actor to disengage from valued goals, or suggest the actor is self-absorbed to the point of disregarding others and rules of conduct" or "certain aspects of excuses cause excuse makers to be viewed as having less character, and as being more unreliable, deceptive, ineffectual, and narcissistic."

Excuses And Character: Identifying The Problematic Aspects Of Excuses | Journal of Social and Clinical Psychology

Abstract Excuses have the paradoxical quality of being widely condemned but widely employed. The psychology literature has articulated and provided evidence for the benefits of excuses, but the downside of excuses has been relatively neglected. We considered the disadvantages of excuses from the...

guilfordjournals.com

I'm sure we can all figure out which camp we fall into. At the end of the day: it is what it is.

 

[Matthaus]

I think it's obvious they didn't want to go all out to start with to make room for specials long term.

I'm quite miffed the i4 is only 360 though, 400 would have been nicer seeing as Merc use the engine for 416.

It's even 381 in their latest hair dresser car

Mercedes-AMG SL43 launched with 381hp

New entry-level model gets M139 four-pot - with an electric turbocharger for good measure

www.pistonheads.com

 

[Eagle7]

I’ve expressed my opinions on this already. I’d personally amend the title to read

“The Emira could have started with 430bhp”

- Which for me would have been great. No additional developememt costs, little to no additional effort. Simple copy and paste. The reason it’s not isn’t for any driving or country road or perfect balance reasons…it’s simply profit and the bottom line.

To address some odd comments:

The Evora 430 is faster around Hethel than the Emira so no…the Emira isn’t blanket quicker. I’d even take the Emira faster claim with a pinch of salt considering its additional weight and softer suspicion (the touring spec anyway)

The comparison is often made with the first Evora and how that was slower. That’s rubbish. Lotus didn’t start out with a 430hp Evora and lop off the super charger to create a first edition model. They started with the best they had and iterated their way up. With the Emira they’re detuning the engine intentionally to make room for a later S/GT model - huge difference. No issues with this from a business perspective but let’s not deceive ourselves.

For balance you could apply this to many marques. The base 911 could have launched with GTS power (and brakes and suspension) but didn’t. Same across the BMW and AMG stables - SL 55 and 63 come to mind. This isn’t new or uncommon and makes sense from a business perspective.

As a consumer however spending my hard earned money I’ll always want and advocate for the best I can have and I really really would have liked a quicker car. Maybe even launch both at the same time so those that want to spend the extra 10K get the car they want and those that don’t don’t…this is the sentiment I feel some are trying to express here.

Edit - I’ve read another reason is down to emissions which doesn’t make sense if there is a GT / S variant in the works.

To address some even odder comments:

1. We don't actually know what the final production Emira is going to have for horsepower because we haven't seen that car yet. Matt the man in charge of it all, says the engine in the Emira has 416 hp, so unless the final production car shows otherwise, and regardless of the printed number of 400 (which is a target number), it's not unreasonable to assume the engine has 416 at this point in time.

2. Lotus has "detuned" the engine for sales purposes. When asked this, Lotus has said they have NOT detuned the engine. So who do we believe; the people who are making the car, or internet posters?

3. The Evora 430 is faster around Hethel than the Emira. There is no data showing that, and Gavan Kershaw, the man in charge of the performance of the Emira, who personally drives it and anything else he wants around Hethel (including an Evora 430), has stated the Emira is faster than the Evora. So who do we believe; a legendary chassis expert who's in charge of developing the performance of the car, or internet posters?

4. 'Best' = quicker, faster, more power. It may to some, but not to all. Some like being able to use the range of power while manually shifting through gears, instead of just leaving it in 3rd the whole time because it has so much power that's all you can do. Some like enjoying the performance from a low rpm all the way up, instead of only having fun when the rpm gets above 4,000 because that's the only time the car comes alive; below that it's unremarkable. Some like turning the steering wheel and shifting more than just mashing down the gas pedal. Some like the overall experience, including sound, instead of just maximum speed. Therefore, 'best' is subjective.

I personally believe the V6 is there for one reason; the manual transmission, and that's as an homage and to pay respect to the era of the ICE sports car. As for power, Lotus has already indicated the i4 is going to be the champion in that department, so for those who want a more powerful Emira than the V6 is going to deliver, the i4 is the version for you. You'll just have to wait a few years to get one, but then that seems to be the new experience to buy a new performance vehicle now.

 

[Leonard]

I think it's obvious they didn't want to go all out to start with to make room for specials long term.

I'm quite miffed the i4 is only 360 though, 400 would have been nicer seeing as Merc use the engine for 416.

It's even 381 in their latest hair dresser car

Mercedes-AMG SL43 launched with 381hp

New entry-level model gets M139 four-pot - with an electric turbocharger for good measure

www.pistonheads.com

It's because at present it's the base car. It competes with the Porsche 718 S
In due time we will get our 718 GT4 and RS equivalents and power will rise accordingly, as will the price.
I really don't understand why this is hard to understand.

 

[Tonyshepp]

It's because at present it's the base car. It competes with the Porsche 718 S
In due time we will get our 718 GT4 and RS equivalents and power will rise accordingly, as will the price.
I really don't understand why this is hard to understand.

Exactly - its Lotus mapping on to the equivalent Cayman and the equivalent price and samish BHP. I'm sure the I4 could be 500hp out of the box but it would be substantially more more money than the I4 currently, the market expects to pay more for more horsepower - a trend already set by the german boys.

 

[VL3X]

Edit - I’ve read another reason is down to emissions which doesn’t make sense if there is a GT / S variant in the works.

Yeah, this is still unknown. The future versions could be i4 only and this could be the end of the V6 manual. Of course, I'd love a 430-450HP v6 manual Emira, but I'm perfectly happy with a 400HP Emira as long as it has a manual transmission and is reliable! I'll upgrade to a GT version if they come with a more powerful V6 and offer sportier seats and carbon package!

 

[Leonard]

Yeah, this is still unknown. The future versions could be i4 only and this could be the end of the V6 manual. Of course, I'd love a 430-450HP v6 manual Emira, but I'm perfectly happy with a 400HP Emira as long as it has a manual transmission and is reliable! I'll upgrade to a GT version if they come with a more powerful V6 and offer sportier seats and carbon package!

I think there will probably be a 430bhp GT4 equivalent with manual and V6 power, possibly even a matching powered i4 equivalent for auto lovers. The final bow out RS equivalent will probably be i4 only pushing some bigger numbers in same way the new RS is Duel clutch only now

 

[VL3X]

I think there will probably be a 430bhp GT4 equivalent with manual and V6 power, possibly even a matching powered i4 equivalent for auto lovers. The final bow out RS equivalent will probably be i4 only pushing some bigger numbers in same way the new RS is Duel clutch only now

Pretty sure the Emira GT4 spec sheet shows just 400HP for that version as well.. though it's using a Harrop TVS 1900 supercharger (vs the Edelbrock 1740 of the production Emira), so the powerband is a little different.

 

[xen]

To address some even odder comments:

1. We don't actually know what the final production Emira is going to have for horsepower because we haven't seen that car yet. Matt the man in charge of it all, says the engine in the Emira has 416 hp, so unless the final production car shows otherwise, and regardless of the printed number of 400 (which is a target number), it's not unreasonable to assume the engine has 416 at this point in time.

2. Lotus has "detuned" the engine for sales purposes. When asked this, Lotus has said they have NOT detuned the engine. So who do we believe; the people who are making the car, or internet posters?

3. The Evora 430 is faster around Hethel than the Emira. There is no data showing that, and Gavan Kershaw, the man in charge of the performance of the Emira, who personally drives it and anything else he wants around Hethel (including an Evora 430), has stated the Emira is faster than the Evora. So who do we believe; a legendary chassis expert who's in charge of developing the performance of the car, or internet posters?

4. 'Best' = quicker, faster, more power. It may to some, but not to all. Some like being able to use the range of power while manually shifting through gears, instead of just leaving it in 3rd the whole time because it has so much power that's all you can do. Some like enjoying the performance from a low rpm all the way up, instead of only having fun when the rpm gets above 4,000 because that's the only time the car comes alive; below that it's unremarkable. Some like turning the steering wheel and shifting more than just mashing down the gas pedal. Some like the overall experience, including sound, instead of just maximum speed. Therefore, 'best' is subjective.

I personally believe the V6 is there for one reason; the manual transmission, and that's as an homage and to pay respect to the era of the ICE sports car. As for power, Lotus has already indicated the i4 is going to be the champion in that department, so for those who want a more powerful Emira than the V6 is going to deliver, the i4 is the version for you. You'll just have to wait a few years to get one, but then that seems to be the new experience to buy a new performance vehicle now.

Right...another Atlantis Blue post where faced with obvious and relevant information you choose to believe what you want. Why is it so hard to even try to be objective?

1. "Matt the man in charge" also said the i4 would have the same power worldwide which turned out to not be case. He's not a god. According to you everything Lotus says is gospel - last I checked they have a website and it says 400hp in bold there. Where is your better sourced information from? Oh yes... Matt said.

2. Mate, common sense...430 vs 400. One number is smaller no? Sorry, once again Lotus said so both numbers are the same.

3. Ironically there's also no data showing the Emira is faster. But once again...Gavin said. There's a thread on this somewhere. It would be tough to imaging the Emira being heavier and down on power against the 430 being quicker. Numbers should be published eventually so we'll see but I know where I'd put my money.

4. What does this have to with the topic at hand? That regardless they are not mutually exclusive!!!!!!!!! Any decent supercharged engine by design will give e you performance from low rpm's all the way up.

P.S. I wouldn't be so dismissive of 'internet posters'. Most of what we (including you) know about the car has come from them.

 

[xen]

Yeah, this is still unknown. The future versions could be i4 only and this could be the end of the V6 manual. Of course, I'd love a 430-450HP v6 manual Emira, but I'm perfectly happy with a 400HP Emira as long as it has a manual transmission and is reliable! I'll upgrade to a GT version if they come with a more powerful V6 and offer sportier seats and carbon package!

I'm not as well informed as some on there but I have heard, after insistent poking around, that a higher powered version is being tested. Doesn't mean it'll see the light of day but I struggle to believe emissions would be the limiting factor (I'd love to be corrected but is the V6 really worse than the V12 currently in the 812 GTS?)