Emira should have started with 450hp.

[IanO]

Enough of this, it’s 400hp. If that’s good for you buy the car, if it’s not enough don’t buy it. Easy.

I4 is 360hp to give a low priced version, extra horses = extra money.

I4 400hp is available in China, no you can’t buy one because it adds more homologation and complexity to sell it in Europe.

Yes the i4 is capable of 500hp with aftermarket tune but a manufacturer is not going to give you a warranty on it and expect it to last 100,000 miles.

Yes, I have put on Leonard’s Grumpy pants.

 

[Schumacher]

If 400hp is not enough, get the i4. With a simple tune you can get 500hp. With new turbos you can get beyond 600hp.

 

[Eagle7]

And I test drove an F12 today - well more a rental as I’m considering buying one - and it was exhilarating. Car is a absolute beast. Felt fast at all speeds and made your spine tingle every time you put your foot down (only halfway mind).

Still looking forward to my Emira but there’s a reason these cars are made and bought. I guess supercars aren’t for everyone.

They aren't, not only because of the cost, but you also have to have a place where you can use it. If you live where there's long straights with minimal or no traffic, then a supercar can somewhat make sense if you can afford it. If you don't, then why have it as a driver's car? The Emira is for the drivers, not the time slip at a drag strip.

What happens in the U.A.E. if you get caught speeding? In the U.S., depending on where you were caught and the speed, you can go to jail and/or lose your car. What happens in the U.A.E.?

 

[Tonyshepp]

I don

Like many on this thread I agree it’s not about power. I deliberately DON’T want more power… let me elaborate…

My last sports car was a 991.2 911 GT3, it was fantastic, it was a beast but it was too much for the road for me. I found all the thrills happened when I rung its neck and was going silly speeds.

I want more accessible, lower speed fun, hence the Emira (and not an Exige either)…

Oh yes and the car is so much prettier than the Porsche IMHO.

My only worry is not power, or ride height it’s whether it will be reliable - especially given that it’s come off an all new production line with lots of new new tech….

Time will tell

Interestingly the only Ferrari I’ve ever driven is the 360 convertible and if my Emira which is out for June delivery goes anything like that then I’m well happy . I remember when I drove the 360 thinking it was like my Elise 160 sport but on steroids . The handling was incredible on the Ferrari and it was a hell of a lot quicker than The lotus

I remember reading somewhere that the Emira has the performance of the 360.

 

[Honeywell]

I agree except on 1 point, I actually found the GT3 suspension really good. I would say similar harshness to an M3, firm but not crashy. Maybe I haven’t had enough similar cars to compare but I know it was so much more compliant than the RS6 I ran for a while.

Depends possibly on where you mostly drive. For me Shropshire, Worcestershire, Powys and Herefrodshire. Rural. Roads broken by modern farming machinery (My Massey Ferguson has 330bhp these days). Its B Roads that I get my driving pleasure on. A Roads and motorways are all covered in cameras and license loosing opportunities.

If anything my biggest reservations with the Emira are its too wide and too powerful.


The Toyota GR86 for half the price is probably the more sensible choice but I've just reached that stage in life where I can afford something like an Emira and if I don't now I never will and that would be a shame for a lifelong petrolhead.

Rationally its not the best choice but life is for living and sometimes you just have to say **** it.

 

[Eagle7]

Depends possibly on where you mostly drive. For me Shropshire, Worcestershire, Powys and Herefrodshire. Rural. Roads broken by modern farming machinery (My Massey Ferguson has 330bhp these days). Its B Roads that I get my driving pleasure on. A Roads and motorways are all covered in cameras and license loosing opportunities.

If anything my biggest reservations with the Emira are its too wide and too powerful.


The Toyota GR86 for half the price is probably the more sensible choice but I've just reached that stage in life where I can afford something like an Emira and if I don't now I never will and that would be a shame for a lifelong petrolhead.

Rationally its not the best choice but life is for living and sometimes you just have to say **** it.

Much the same for me except I live in the U.S. I live in a (for now) semi-rural area that's steadily getting less and less semi as development continues (so sad to see), and speed limits are generally 25-40 for the most part. The roads are not highways.

I retired last August and I'm now 70, so getting a sports car at this age isn't exactly the most logical of moves, but I can, I've always been a fan of Lotus since the 1960's, and I want one. It will most likely be my last car purchase. My first car was a sports car (1964 Triumph Spitfire) and my last will be a sports car. I consider myself both blessed and fortunate to be able to do this. No complaints.

 

[xen]

They aren't, not only because of the cost, but you also have to have a place where you can use it. If you live where there's long straights with minimal or no traffic, then a supercar can somewhat make sense if you can afford it. If you don't, then why have it as a driver's car? The Emira is for the drivers, not the time slip at a drag strip.

What happens in the U.A.E. if you get caught speeding? In the U.S., depending on where you were caught and the speed, you can go to jail and/or lose your car. What happens in the U.A.E.?

last I checked Chris Harris lives in the UK, I don’t think he’s in Jail. Harry Metcalf has a few stunners too (project 7 is particularly tasty), I don’t think he’s in jail either. Raz a GTR black series, also not in Jail. In the US where you live there are tons of supercars on the road.

Have you driven the Emira? Bit of a hypocrite to criticise ‘declarations’ yet boldly state it’s for the drivers.

 

[Pegasi]

I don't mind the HP debate but in order to sell a car limited practicality car, i.e. a sportscar, you must lead in one of the performance categories. HP, Handling, Styling, Top Speed, Acceleration, etc. Here are two sportscar manufacturers and how they choose to advertise what category they are aiming to dominate.

Lotus Difference - Handling | Lotus Cars

www.lotuscars.com.tr

2023 Dodge Charger Performance | HEMI® Engines & More

Discover the performance behind the 2023 Dodge Charger. Explore horsepower, available SRT® Drive Modes, HEMI® engines, all-wheel drive & more here.

www.dodge.com

 

[xen]

Says the guy who chooses to believe what he wants and keeps repeating it without anything to back it up.

We don't actually know what the i4 power in the final production car is yet do we, yet here you are making absolute declarations when you have no idea whether it's true or not. Same with the power and performance of the Emira in general. Nobody other than the people at Lotus knows yet.

LOL. What declaration? The power figure information is literally there on the Lotus website! If that’s somehow still not clear, the information is on the Lotus website - the one Lotus owns.

Lotus also publish a 0-60 guide. It’s also there on the website.

These are now considered declarations with no truth because they don’t fit a narrative you like?

This is hopeless. I give up.

 

[Pegasi]

If it is indeed not a loaded question I’ll try. To start with, it’s not the minority. Quite a few of the revered motoring journalists own very fast cars - Chris Harris, Harry Metcalf, Clarkson. Why is this the case? Lotus, the brand we’re all here for built a 2,000hp car and Jenson reportedly has one on order. If we assume they (Lotus) know what they’re doing with the Emira you have to assume they do as well with the Evija.

Now me personally? It’s not the performance per se but the feeling of the performance and the way it’s delivered. Fast sedans and SUV’s have their place and can do ridiculous 0-60 times. That’s not what I’m looking for. I like N/A or supercharged engines with linear power delivery that pin you to the back of your seat and scream when you push the pedal hard. The closer to this I can get, the happier I am. I don’t have to do it all the time but having that headroom and smiling when you’re first at a red light on an early Sunday drive…

I’ve driven the M4, M8, Taycan and Etron RS in recent months and though performant found them very bland. I’ve also driven the AMG GTR, F-Type SVR (and very recently the F12 ) and found them exciting.

So "Seat of the pants feel." I can get with that and I understand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with paying 100K USD or the equivalent in your country and wanting the best "seat of the pants feel." I hope we can all remember this debate 3 years from now when we have our cars so everyone can report back and say they were a little right, or a little wrong about the HP debate! I have a car that came stock with 300HP, great drive and all that. I increased the HP to 400 and now it has an awesome "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating and doing pulls.

 

[TXEMIRA]

Love this thread.

At the craps table. Guys come up all the time “how is the table”?

My answer 100% of the time -
“About this high and this long. Dimensions are somewhere here…”

Almost everything is subjective, including horsepower, and this is as dependable a debate topic as beauty.

Someone will bring on the “math” argument. Still too many variables.

Alas I do love this thread… Horsepower… Anyone see a heard of 400 horses lately? If we did could we see the 30 in 430?

Size of shoe. Length of a pool cue. Horsepower in a car. Craps table.

They’re all the same, though mathematical, still subjective.

#ForTheThread

 

[Leonard]

last I checked Chris Harris lives in the UK, I don’t think he’s in Jail. Harry Metcalf has a few stunners too (project 7 is particularly tasty), I don’t think he’s in jail either. Raz a GTR black series, also not in Jail. In the US where you live there are tons of supercars on the road.

Have you driven the Emira? Bit of a hypocrite to criticise ‘declarations’ yet boldly state it’s for the drivers.

Yes but Harris and the like get to absolute cane cars on track on a regular basis. Which is exactly why Chris loves his Citroën 2CV etc

 

[xen]

So "Seat of the pants feel." I can get with that and I understand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with paying 100K USD or the equivalent in your country and wanting the best "seat of the pants feel." I hope we can all remember this debate 3 years from now when we have our cars so everyone can report back and say they were a little right, or a little wrong about the HP debate! I have a car that came stock with 300HP, great drive and all that. I increased the HP to 400 and now it has a perfect "seat of the pants feel" when accelerating and doing pulls.

But I was fairly clear in my post that the closer to the feeling the better. I didn’t mention ‘perfect’. I also hope you remember in 3 years when the Emira S/GT is released to explain how anything over 400hp is useless and a waste because that number just so happens to be golden ratio of hp numbers.

 

[xen]

Yes but Harris and the like get to absolute cane cars on track on a regular basis. Which is exactly why Chris loves his Citroën 2CV etc

Isn’t the sports suspension configuration intended for track?

 

[Leonard]

Isn’t the sports suspension configuration intended for track?

Yup. Still means you can have all the thrills at a slower speed. I can see Chris sideways in it now

 

[Pegasi]

But I was fairly clear in my post that the closer to the feeling the better. I didn’t mention ‘perfect’. I also hope you remember in 3 years when the Emira S/GT is released to explain how anything over 400hp is useless and a waste because that number just so happens to be golden ratio of hp numbers.

I edited my post and changed perfect to awesome. I put 3 years as a joke because everything is taking so long.

However, I am on the record in the forum saying one of the benefits of being in BASE camp is that if I get a sniff of an Emira S/GT or anything, I am all over it. One of the reasons I don't have an opinion on the HP debate is because I haven't driven a Lotus yet. Once I drive one, I will offer one.

 

[Eagle7]

LOL. What declaration? The power figure information is literally there on the Lotus website! If that’s somehow still not clear, the information is on the Lotus website - the one Lotus owns.

Lotus also publish a 0-60 guide. It’s also there on the website.

These are now considered declarations with no truth because they don’t fit a narrative you like?

This is hopeless. I give up.

Did you see where I acknowledged that and they've stated "target" for the performance numbers? The 0-60 as first 4.5, then revised to 4.3 and they're still working on it?

I hope by "giving up" you stop repeating gossip about what Lotus has or hasn't done with their engines.

 

[Eagle7]

last I checked Chris Harris lives in the UK, I don’t think he’s in Jail. Harry Metcalf has a few stunners too (project 7 is particularly tasty), I don’t think he’s in jail either. Raz a GTR black series, also not in Jail. In the US where you live there are tons of supercars on the road.

Have you driven the Emira? Bit of a hypocrite to criticise ‘declarations’ yet boldly state it’s for the drivers.

Last I checked I didn't ask you about Chris Harris, Harry Metcalf, Raz or anyone else. I asked you what happens in the U.A.E. if you get caught speeding, which you curiously completely ignored.

As for me "boldly" stating it's for the drivers, yeah you're right. I just made that up like you saying they deliberately detuned the V6. I mean, if "for the drivers" was an official slogan, it would be all over their products, signage, building etc..... oh wait...

 

[xen]

I edited my post and changed perfect to awesome. I put 3 years as a joke because everything is taking so long.

However, I am on the record in the forum saying one of the benefits of being in BASE camp is that if I get a sniff of an Emira S/GT or anything, I am all over it. One of the reasons I don't have an opinion on the HP debate is because I haven't driven a Lotus yet. Once I drive one, I will offer one.

You should try an Evora if you can. It’s a very analogue car and sounds amazing. It’s also pretty quick with a fair amount of useable power. You’ll also immediately notice the chassis is so well planted it would be amazing with a bit more power.

Sorta reminds me how we all knew the 718 platform could be magical with a proper 6 cylinder engine. Nothing wrong with the base car…but it’s actual potential has finally been realised.

 

[SpyderBite]

So many people saying "400hp is enough". Well then, hopefully you agree the I4 at 360hp is underpowered. Or is 360hp now "enough" and would you like to volunteer your V6 for a de-tune?

I think there would be more agreement from some of us on "The Emira is underpowered" topic, and less complaints historically, if the I4 came in at 400hp vs. the marketing-based detune to 360hp that it's getting. And yes, a 40hp drop (and the torque reduction that goes with it) is indeed noticeable.

At least in my case, this isn't just an academic argument. Based on my experiences, the cars I drive, where and how I drive, and having also driven an Evora 400 for comparison.. 360hp is underpowered for me, and yes, it will personally impact me and my experience with the car negatively.

Everything else about the car seems great though.

Xen: Loved your posts on this topic. Amen, brother!

Eagle7 continues to be *dead wrong* on some of his points. As some have noted, he is still doggedly sticking by them for months claiming that he will only believe what Matt & Gavin tell us. But that's a lie too. Because Matt & Gavin have actually themselves said things contrary to Eagle7's points, and then he falls back to "Well, they have to tell me PERSONALLY or it's not so".

Let me be 100% clear: Matt, Gavin, and other higher level Lotus employees told me to my face about the I4 being a detune to 360hp for marketing decisions -- so as not to upstage the "Premium" V6. NO OTHER REASON. Not emissions, not heat, not mileage, not costs.

As others have said: as performance enthusiasts & Emira purchasers, we clearly don't like the car being de-tuned. But that aside, many of us also understand from a marketing perspective why they are choosing to do it and that there is precedence with other car manufacturers/models for this strategy. It stings none-the-less because we want the most out of the roughly $100k (US) car we are buying and know we aren't getting it due to the marketing plan.

Should be interesting to see if the Chinese I4 FE truly releases with 400hp like the Lotus China website apparently still says it will. Personally I would have 0 complaints left if the I4 FE released in the US/rest of world with 400hp.

Powertrain distinction is such an important one in this whole debate. OP brings up 450hp... On the V6, I'd guess that 440 - 450hp probably wouldn't be much different in performance than an I4 DCT with 400hp...