Emira should have started with 450hp.

[VL3X]

Yeah, my RS7 went from like 550hp to 670. That was noticeable..and then I thought, hmm, could be faster.

Exactly. My GTI went from ~220 to 310HP with a simple $600 stage 1+ flash. Best mod money ever spent.

 

[Honeywell]

Hmmm. Bhp gives your top speed. Torque gives your rate of change of velocity (acceleration). The i4 has more torque. And two more gears which change faster. And is lighter. And has an area under the graph that makes it entirely comparable to the V6 in performance achieved.

The i4 will be faster around the Hethel circuit. Its also easily remappable to 420bhp in the future and likely higher where the V6 gearbox simply couldn't go. It will also accept 48v electrification and be the only engine option in four years.

The i4 will seek far more units than the V6 over the Emira lifecycle. Its a bit like Porsches - every car journalist raves about the manual gearbox but ~90% sold are PDK.

 

[ADC]

 

[Eagle7]

Eagle7 continues to be *dead wrong* on some of his points. As some have noted, he is still doggedly sticking by them for months claiming that he will only believe what Matt & Gavin tell us. But that's a lie too. Because Matt & Gavin have actually themselves said things contrary to Eagle7's points, and then he falls back to "Well, they have to tell me PERSONALLY or it's not so".

Let me be 100% clear: Matt, Gavin, and other higher level Lotus employees told me to my face about the I4 being a detune to 360hp for marketing decisions -- so as not to upstage the "Premium" V6. NO OTHER REASON. Not emissions, not heat, not mileage, not costs.

This is the first time I've seen this. So they told you this personally. I never said they have to tell me this personally. You weaken your argument when you make things up like that. However, if you're on record saying they told you this personally, that counts as eyewitness testimony as far as it can. I don't know you, and usually it requires corroboration to validate a statement like that. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. Anybody else get that info directly from Matt, Gav, or other higher level Lotus employees?

 

[Tonyshepp]

Much the same for me except I live in the U.S. I live in a (for now) semi-rural area that's steadily getting less and less semi as development continues (so sad to see), and speed limits are generally 25-40 for the most part. The roads are not highways.

I retired last August and I'm now 70, so getting a sports car at this age isn't exactly the most logical of moves, but I can, I've always been a fan of Lotus since the 1960's, and I want one. It will most likely be my last car purchase. My first car was a sports car (1964 Triumph Spitfire) and my last will be a sports car. I consider myself both blessed and fortunate to be able to do this. No complaints.

Did you use the bag of sand in the boot of the spitfire to improve roadholding?

 

[Bilbao-Emira]

They aren't, not only because of the cost, but you also have to have a place where you can use it. If you live where there's long straights with minimal or no traffic, then a supercar can somewhat make sense if you can afford it. If you don't, then why have it as a driver's car? The Emira is for the drivers, not the time slip at a drag strip.

What happens in the U.A.E. if you get caught speeding? In the U.S., depending on where you were caught and the speed, you can go to jail and/or lose your car. What happens in the U.A.E.?

In UAE, when I used to live there 10 years ago, you didn't go to jail for speeding, the car went to jail for a month, which was great, you would get free parking for a month in jail, and you chose the month accordingly to your holidays back in Europe!!!
I loved it!

 

[Maverick1]

Depends possibly on where you mostly drive. For me Shropshire, Worcestershire, Powys and Herefrodshire. Rural. Roads broken by modern farming machinery (My Massey Ferguson has 330bhp these days). Its B Roads that I get my driving pleasure on. A Roads and motorways are all covered in cameras and license loosing opportunities.

If anything my biggest reservations with the Emira are its too wide and too powerful.


The Toyota GR86 for half the price is probably the more sensible choice but I've just reached that stage in life where I can afford something like an Emira and if I don't now I never will and that would be a shame for a lifelong petrolhead.

Rationally its not the best choice but life is for living and sometimes you just have to say **** it.

For British B roads knowing how twisty and narrow they are, wouldn't the GR Yaris be the ideal car?
Quick, lightweight, tossable, manual transmission, 4 wheel drive, and a hoot to throw around??

 

[Eagle7]

Did you use the bag of sand in the boot of the spitfire to improve roadholding?

LOL no, I just learned how to deal with the way the backend would suddenly hop up if you cornered too hard. I paid $350 for it and thought it was great. Driving around with the top down and getting 30 mpg at a time when gas was cheap, about 33 cents a gallon. Manual choke to get it started. Nobody even in their wildest imagination dreamed of something like the Emira; a car with 50 computers. At that time, a computer literally filled a room. The idea that you could put one in a car was something even beyond science fiction.

The world has changed so much in the last 70 years it's hard to even describe. The world I grew up in is long gone, most of it actually physically gone. When I left California years ago, I took one last drive through all the old areas where I lived and grew up, and I was shocked at how little of it was left. One of the houses we'd lived in looked terrible; all run down with boards over windows and the front yard was just dirt. When we moved out, it was pristine and looked like something out of a magazine. I would recognize some street names, and NOTHING that was there when I lived there was still there. Entire blocks of buildings completely gone, replaced by apartments. All the fields, orange groves, drive-in theaters, and all except 3 restaurants were all gone. Shopping centers were there in name only; all the buildings that had been there were all gone. The bowling alley where my parents bowled in leagues, and I'd play pinball machines, is now an Islamic training center. Many of the actual streets were gone too, replaced by Walmarts and huge shopping centers. It was a strange feeling. As I drove away, I realized I wasn't really leaving California, my California had already left me.

I've thought about getting another Triumph Spitfire, just for old time's sake, but when I was looking on BAT for one, the feeling that came over me wasn't good. I realized it would just make me sad for the loss of all that it would represent. Half my family and most of the people I grew up with are gone now too. It's all just simply gone now, and it's better if I just accept that and enjoy where I am, and what I have while it can still be enjoyed. I'm really looking forward to the Emira!

 

[Leonard]

For British B roads knowing how twisty and narrow they are, wouldn't the GR Yaris be the ideal car?
Quick, lightweight, tossable, manual transmission, 4 wheel drive, and a hoot to throw around??

Why I have mine. Almost worried the Emira will be too big

 

[Maverick1]

Why I have mine. Almost worried the Emira will be too big

It wouldn't surprise me if you're faster in the Yaris mate.
Have you ever thought about getting it tuned like the Litchfield Yaris?

 

[NicolasB]

So many people saying "400hp is enough". Well then, hopefully you agree the I4 at 360hp is underpowered. Or is 360hp now "enough" and would you like to volunteer your V6 for a de-tune?

I think there would be more agreement from some of us on "The Emira is underpowered" topic, and less complaints historically, if the I4 came in at 400hp vs. the marketing-based detune to 360hp that it's getting. And yes, a 40hp drop (and the torque reduction that goes with it) is indeed noticeable.

At least in my case, this isn't just an academic argument. Based on my experiences, the cars I drive, where and how I drive, and having also driven an Evora 400 for comparison.. 360hp is underpowered for me, and yes, it will personally impact me and my experience with the car negatively.

Everything else about the car seems great though.

Xen: Loved your posts on this topic. Amen, brother!

Eagle7 continues to be *dead wrong* on some of his points. As some have noted, he is still doggedly sticking by them for months claiming that he will only believe what Matt & Gavin tell us. But that's a lie too. Because Matt & Gavin have actually themselves said things contrary to Eagle7's points, and then he falls back to "Well, they have to tell me PERSONALLY or it's not so".

Let me be 100% clear: Matt, Gavin, and other higher level Lotus employees told me to my face about the I4 being a detune to 360hp for marketing decisions -- so as not to upstage the "Premium" V6. NO OTHER REASON. Not emissions, not heat, not mileage, not costs.

As others have said: as performance enthusiasts & Emira purchasers, we clearly don't like the car being de-tuned. But that aside, many of us also understand from a marketing perspective why they are choosing to do it and that there is precedence with other car manufacturers/models for this strategy. It stings none-the-less because we want the most out of the roughly $100k (US) car we are buying and know we aren't getting it due to the marketing plan.

Should be interesting to see if the Chinese I4 FE truly releases with 400hp like the Lotus China website apparently still says it will. Personally I would have 0 complaints left if the I4 FE released in the US/rest of world with 400hp.

Powertrain distinction is such an important one in this whole debate. OP brings up 450hp... On the V6, I'd guess that 440 - 450hp probably wouldn't be much different in performance than an I4 DCT with 400hp...

Explain how you have access to GavAn, Matt and "higher level employees" that you get to talk to them all, and have them tell something "to your face"? You would be the only person on the forums with that kind of access and intel, which seems odd, especially since you just showed up out of nowhere on here.

 

[ADC]

Explain how you have access to GavAn, Matt and "higher level employees" that you get to talk to them all, and have them tell something "to your face"? You would be the only person on the forums with that kind of access and intel, which seems odd, especially since you just showed up out of nowhere on here.

Plot twist: it is TomE, who has finally had a psychotic break and this second personality has splintered off and created another account... Just you wait and see, he'll start arguing with himself shortly!

 

[LotusB]

To all those who want more HP, what exactly are you looking for performance wise? This isn't a loaded question. This is a forum and I would like to know your "why".

I have heard that no other manufacturer produces a car with less HP than the previous model. I have heard they don't want to get embarrassed at the dragstrip, so 0-60 or 1/4 mile times.

What are you looking for with more HP? 3.5sec 0-60, top speed of 200mph, a specific track time? Bragging rights? I decided to place my deposit when I saw the car and understood it was mid-engined so you cannot get more shallow or garage queen than me. I looked up specs after I had decided to place a deposit.

I want more torque. People here talk about 400hp as if all 400hp engines are created equal. Look at the M2 Competition engine: I6 3L with a pretty flat torque curve, more importantly 406ft lbs of torque. Why do I want more torque? Because the cars I'm used to have more and I use the power often to overtake cars. I don't want to have to downshift and rev the crap out of the engine to have decent pickup, especially with a manual transmission. I want to hit the throttle and feel the torque.

The real bummer isn't what the car will be coming with, but that the choice of transmission hardware (which is at the limit from the factory) has no room for aftermarket addons.

My ideal cars are comfortably less than 4-seconds 0-60. And not on a special day, with the right launch... relatively comfortably. That's even harder with manual. No, I don't street race, but yes I like to feel the power.

I'm still buying the car and depending on how I feel about it, I'll either hold on to it and mod it... or I'll sell it. I've not driven the Emira, just like everybody else here. I'll make the decision after I live with it for a few weeks and I'm not going to be making excuses for Lotus. Maybe 400hp (and ~310ft-lbs) will be enough, maybe not, but as it stands their target number would make it the slowest car in my garage. Which is a shame for something that's going to be my little 2-seater baby.

Keeping an open mind... but kind of sucks not to know when I'm writing my dealer a check for just over $100k.

 

[mjw930]

This thread is so much fun, it’s like seeing my decades of automotive experience from the outside in. I can relate to almost all of these opinions depending on what decade I choose to reference, it’s great.

 

[switchlanez]

I don't mind paying less for lacking that extra 50hp. I wouldn't mind paying even less for 350hp and would even consider the i4 if it had a manual.

 

[SpyderBite]

Plot twist: it is TomE, who has finally had a psychotic break and this second personality has splintered off and created another account... Just you wait and see, he'll start arguing with himself shortly!

Lol, yes, admittedly I am. Well, except I'm not. I mean... April Fools?

Explain how you have access to GavAn, Matt and "higher level employees" that you get to talk to them all, and have them tell something "to your face"? You would be the only person on the forums with that kind of access and intel, which seems odd, especially since you just showed up out of nowhere on here.

Well, since I know I won't be getting any invitations from Lotus to become a Lotus Ambassador , yeah, I'll explain a bit especially since I threw it out there. Back in November, they were all out in Los Angeles for the car show for several days (including doing a nice drive in Evora's through the canyons I frequent). Suffice it to say, I was at the right place at the right time, and got to spend a good amount of time with a variety of Lotus personnel 1-on-1.

Now that I think about it, maybe ADC's comment about a "break" had just a hint of truth to it . Try being a passionate car guy & forum member and then sitting on your hands for a long time not feeling able to respond when you see certain pieces of incorrect info keep getting perpetuated over & over...

"Showing up out of nowhere" - fair enough. For what it's worth if you go over to LotusTalk which is another respectable (and decades-old) Lotus forum, I use the same name there and have a decent number of posts. I've seen quite a few people posting here who are also there. In retrospect I ASSumed most people visit both forums (like I do) than is the case. Yeah, we know the thing about "assume" , sigh...

Regarding where I addressed Eagle7... A little context, he and I have debated previously on LotusTalk, including on topics such as speculation on why the I4 was at 360hp. But admittedly, I let a little frustration boil over in my post here and some references in that were to months-old posts on LotusTalk. I don't think it's news to say Eagle tends to defend/champion Lotus & their rationale pretty strongly, nor that he'd disagree with that? . Anyways, Eagle - I appreciated your response afterwards & that you didn't let your feathers get ruffled.

 

[Pegasi]

I want more torque. People here talk about 400hp as if all 400hp engines are created equal. Look at the M2 Competition engine: I6 3L with a pretty flat torque curve, more importantly 406ft lbs of torque. Why do I want more torque? Because the cars I'm used to have more and I use the power often to overtake cars. I don't want to have to downshift and rev the crap out of the engine to have decent pickup, especially with a manual transmission. I want to hit the throttle and feel the torque.

The real bummer isn't what the car will be coming with, but that the choice of transmission hardware (which is at the limit from the factory) has no room for aftermarket addons.

My ideal cars are comfortably less than 4-seconds 0-60. And not on a special day, with the right launch... relatively comfortably. That's even harder with manual. No, I don't street race, but yes I like to feel the power.

I'm still buying the car and depending on how I feel about it, I'll either hold on to it and mod it... or I'll sell it. I've not driven the Emira, just like everybody else here. I'll make the decision after I live with it for a few weeks and I'm not going to be making excuses for Lotus. Maybe 400hp (and ~310ft-lbs) will be enough, maybe not, but as it stands their target number would make it the slowest car in my garage. Which is a shame for something that's going to be my little 2-seater baby.

Keeping an open mind... but kind of sucks not to know when I'm writing my dealer a check for just over $100k.

400HP is not created equal. Personally I do enjoy both low end torque and high end torque. Not saying you don't but so much of this is about driving styles as you point out and the roads you have access to. Hopefully the Emira will at least be the prettiest in your garage if it is the slowest! But also, do you track any cars and if you do, will the Emira still be the slowest???

 

[Lots_Of_Trouble]

I want more torque. People here talk about 400hp as if all 400hp engines are created equal. Look at the M2 Competition engine: I6 3L with a pretty flat torque curve, more importantly 406ft lbs of torque. Why do I want more torque? Because the cars I'm used to have more and I use the power often to overtake cars. I don't want to have to downshift and rev the crap out of the engine to have decent pickup, especially with a manual transmission. I want to hit the throttle and feel the torque.

The real bummer isn't what the car will be coming with, but that the choice of transmission hardware (which is at the limit from the factory) has no room for aftermarket addons.

My ideal cars are comfortably less than 4-seconds 0-60. And not on a special day, with the right launch... relatively comfortably. That's even harder with manual. No, I don't street race, but yes I like to feel the power.

I'm still buying the car and depending on how I feel about it, I'll either hold on to it and mod it... or I'll sell it. I've not driven the Emira, just like everybody else here. I'll make the decision after I live with it for a few weeks and I'm not going to be making excuses for Lotus. Maybe 400hp (and ~310ft-lbs) will be enough, maybe not, but as it stands their target number would make it the slowest car in my garage. Which is a shame for something that's going to be my little 2-seater baby.

Keeping an open mind... but kind of sucks not to know when I'm writing my dealer a check for just over $100k.

EXACTLY THIS - im all for the torque rather than numbers too!

 

[Leonard]

It wouldn't surprise me if you're faster in the Yaris mate.
Have you ever thought about getting it tuned like the Litchfield Yaris?

Quite possibly lol. Thought about tuning it, but doesn't need it to be honest!

 

[Leonard]

I want more torque. People here talk about 400hp as if all 400hp engines are created equal. Look at the M2 Competition engine: I6 3L with a pretty flat torque curve, more importantly 406ft lbs of torque. Why do I want more torque? Because the cars I'm used to have more and I use the power often to overtake cars. I don't want to have to downshift and rev the crap out of the engine to have decent pickup, especially with a manual transmission. I want to hit the throttle and feel the torque.

The real bummer isn't what the car will be coming with, but that the choice of transmission hardware (which is at the limit from the factory) has no room for aftermarket addons.

My ideal cars are comfortably less than 4-seconds 0-60. And not on a special day, with the right launch... relatively comfortably. That's even harder with manual. No, I don't street race, but yes I like to feel the power.

I'm still buying the car and depending on how I feel about it, I'll either hold on to it and mod it... or I'll sell it. I've not driven the Emira, just like everybody else here. I'll make the decision after I live with it for a few weeks and I'm not going to be making excuses for Lotus. Maybe 400hp (and ~310ft-lbs) will be enough, maybe not, but as it stands their target number would make it the slowest car in my garage. Which is a shame for something that's going to be my little 2-seater baby.

Keeping an open mind... but kind of sucks not to know when I'm writing my dealer a check for just over $100k.

It's going to weigh less than your M2 and handle better though. As well as sound a LOT better. It will be awesome