I'm out - the cancellations thread

[FEGuy]

I opted for a G82 with ultimate pack, no regrets

Epic all round car and high quality

I’m increasingly leaning towards a M3 Touring and upgrade my wife’s car to a Tesla, instead of Emira plus my EV daily….

Lotus is making this too easy….

I gave up and bought a G80. Love it! Fantastic car honestly. It’s a rocket ship and handles quite well for what it is.

 

[770K]

with a May 21 pre reveal deposit I hope mine is defo one of em!!!

Me too, mine was March '21

 

[Porter]

Boy! It’s been a long journey since July 2021!!!

Regrettably I have just wrote to LCC to request a refund of my deposit and cancel my i4 order due Q1 2024. Been holding off for ages, hoping things will all pan-out, but the seatbelt issue was the final straw. It’s simply too concerning that Lotus can’t even get such basics right, what hope for the rest of the car and longer term ownership experience. For me, the biggest concern is my nearest dealer is at least 3hrs drive away in Glasgow. Also the delay of ICE ban till 2032 in Scotland also helps settle me a bit to look out for other options.

I will stay on this forum in the hope that I will return to buy the Emira in the future, but not “soon” unfortunately. That is if I am not tempted by something else…..

My wife is happy now, we might even consider getting that fancy Motorhome after all….. that gives touring a whole new meaning now. Definitely no sport option there, but seats will definitely be comfy!

See you all in the refund sections….

A single owner had a seatbelt tensioner issue that's not been reported on any other car, and your response was to cancel your order on a model that's not due for another year?

 

[Wolfram]

Also the delay of ICE ban till 2032 in Scotland also helps settle me a bit to look out for other options.

... that was just a typo in a document. They have clarified that the actual date remains 2030.

 

[Dommo]

A single owner had a seatbelt tensioner issue that's not been reported on any other car, and your response was to cancel your order on a model that's not due for another year?

Are you on a crusade to vilify anyone that chooses to leave the brand or question it? You do understand the meaning of 'final straw' don't you??

 

[NicolasB]

A single owner had a seatbelt tensioner issue that's not been reported on any other car, and your response was to cancel your order on a model that's not due for another year?

I believe it was more than one car? Either way, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back for him, not the defective seatbelts alone.

 

[Porter]

Are you on a crusade to vilify anyone that chooses to leave the brand or question it? You do understand the meaning of 'final straw' don't you??

That's a pretty bold accusation. Please document examples of the "crusade" that you say that I'm on with some references to posts I've made, vilifying anyone.

I'll wait.

 

[TomE]

I believe it was more than one car? Either way, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back for him, not the defective seatbelts alone.

Only one car reported as having the seat belt jamming issue. It did affect both driver and passenger belts, and after Lotus replaced the belts one of the new ones then jammed again 24 hours later.

 

[Magma]

Only one car reported as having the seat belt jamming issue. It did affect both driver and passenger belts, and after Lotus replaced the belts one of the new ones then jammed again 24 hours later.

I believe someone on a test drive reported a seat belt issue as well. I could be wrong, but I swear someone said that.

 

[TomE]

What I've seen:

• Twisted belts have been more widely reported.
• Some have locked temporarily when pulled out, which can happen on many cars if the belt is pulled too sharply.
• One passenger who reported the belt wouldn't pull out very far but it did pull out and rewind.
• One passenger belt that would only pull out if the parking brake was off (this was on a test drive so may be the one you recall).
• Only one car where both the belts have jammed in the fully retracted position and wouldn't free up. Same problem with one of the replacement belts too.

 

[kitkat]

A single owner had a seatbelt tensioner issue that's not been reported on any other car, and your response was to cancel your order on a model that's not due for another year?

Did you read his whole post you quoted? It's a valid concern that Lotus can't even get the basics right. It isn't just the seatbelts, I'm sure for him it's the sum of all the issues being reported. If I were in the i4 camp I would have absolutely bailed at this point -- it's a brand new engine and drivetrain for Lotus and they can't even get seatbelts squared away during inspection?

 

[NicolasB]

What I've seen:

• Twisted belts have been more widely reported.
• Some have locked temporarily when pulled out, which can happen on many cars if the belt is pulled too sharply.
• One passenger who reported the belt wouldn't pull out very far but it did pull out and rewind.
• One passenger belt that would only pull out if the parking brake was off (this was on a test drive so may be the one you recall).
• Only one car where both the belts have jammed in the fully retracted position and wouldn't free up. Same problem with one of the replacement belts too.

So, more than this one instance from the sounds of things.

 

[Porter]

So, more than this one instance from the sounds of things.

Speaking as someone who was formerly the service director of a car dealership... no, it's not. We have seen one case of inoperative seat belts, a few cases of unexpected operation (inconclusive, could be user), and several cases of cosmetic complaint regarding belt orientation. There is a difference between these, because the remedies needed to ensure future builds are free from error are radically different.

If you're operating purely on an emotional basis, and your position is that Lotus shouldn't have built any cars with manufacturing errors or component defect because "they've had plenty of time"... well, that seems like a you problem. Not meaning you Nicolas, I'm speaking broadly.

In the real world of complex manufacturing, problems sometimes occur with process, and components sometimes have defects that are discovered after the fact. That's simply how it works. An engineer (not a mechanic) will investigate, identify root cause, and the broader team will implement a remediation. And unless they do an actual recall, they will likely not communicate with the public about why or how or when. A company at Lotus' scale can identify and locate every individual car with an issue and go fix it.

If some of you want to cancel your orders because of early manufacturing defect recognition and the iterative process improvement that results from it, well, maybe buying a first year product from a small manufacturer (or frankly, any manufacturer) was not an appropriate personal choice. And that's ok. Different people have different personal tolerance for risk in their personal risk/reward model. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Hobiedick]

Speaking as someone who was formerly the service director of a car dealership... no, it's not. We have seen one case of inoperative seat belts, a few cases of unexpected operation (inconclusive, could be user), and several cases of cosmetic complaint regarding belt orientation. There is a difference between these, because the remedies needed to ensure future builds are free from error are radically different.

If you're operating purely on an emotional basis, and your position is that Lotus shouldn't have built any cars with manufacturing errors or component defect because "they've had plenty of time"... well, that seems like a you problem. Not meaning you Nicolas, I'm speaking broadly.

In the real world of complex manufacturing, problems sometimes occur with process, and components sometimes have defects that are discovered after the fact. That's simply how it works. An engineer (not a mechanic) will investigate, identify root cause, and the broader team will implement a remediation. And unless they do an actual recall, they will likely not communicate with the public about why or how or when. A company at Lotus' scale can identify and locate every individual car with an issue and go fix it.

If some of you want to cancel your orders because of early manufacturing defect recognition and the iterative process improvement that results from it, well, maybe buying a first year product from a small manufacturer (or frankly, any manufacturer) was not an appropriate personal choice. And that's ok. Different people have different personal tolerance for risk in their personal risk/reward model. Nothing wrong with that.

I think you are missing the point about Lotus after sales service (non)!!

 

[EspritGuy]

Speaking as someone who was formerly the service director of a car dealership... no, it's not. We have seen one case of inoperative seat belts, a few cases of unexpected operation (inconclusive, could be user), and several cases of cosmetic complaint regarding belt orientation. There is a difference between these, because the remedies needed to ensure future builds are free from error are radically different.

If you're operating purely on an emotional basis, and your position is that Lotus shouldn't have built any cars with manufacturing errors or component defect because "they've had plenty of time"... well, that seems like a you problem. Not meaning you Nicolas, I'm speaking broadly.

In the real world of complex manufacturing, problems sometimes occur with process, and components sometimes have defects that are discovered after the fact. That's simply how it works. An engineer (not a mechanic) will investigate, identify root cause, and the broader team will implement a remediation. And unless they do an actual recall, they will likely not communicate with the public about why or how or when. A company at Lotus' scale can identify and locate every individual car with an issue and go fix it.

If some of you want to cancel your orders because of early manufacturing defect recognition and the iterative process improvement that results from it, well, maybe buying a first year product from a small manufacturer (or frankly, any manufacturer) was not an appropriate personal choice. And that's ok. Different people have different personal tolerance for risk in their personal risk/reward model. Nothing wrong with that.

Well said.
The luster of early adoption is usually bragging rights.
What could go wrong?
FE frustrations.

 

[TomE]

What I've seen:

• Twisted belts have been more widely reported.
• Some have locked temporarily when pulled out, which can happen on many cars if the belt is pulled too sharply.
• One passenger who reported the belt wouldn't pull out very far but it did pull out and rewind.
• One passenger belt that would only pull out if the parking brake was off (this was on a test drive so may be the one you recall).
• Only one car where both the belts have jammed in the fully retracted position and wouldn't free up. Same problem with one of the replacement belts too.

So, more than this one instance from the sounds of things.

No, one instance of the failure mode reported by duff. The others are not failures, although they might be indicators of a risk of future failures.

There is a big difference between a slightly inconvenient belt operation you can work around, and complete failure resulting in you being unable to safely secure yourself and your passenger (in duff's case in a child seat) two hours away from home.

 

[Jon_N]

I’m out…. Just need to get round to calling them as don’t have confidence they’ll respond to an email….
So many issues from others I’ve lot any confidence I had in the product. I’ve also just had an email stating that my FE build will be Q1 2024 from my deposit in Dec ‘21, which is ridiculous for a standard sports car! I ordered a 911 the week after the Emira & picked it up in Dec ‘22, much more like it….
Anyway, good luck to all, I won’t be going back to Lotus, but will miss the forum banter!

 

[4380r]

makes me wonder for those who have bailed out if those dealers who took the deposits will still be getting "your" car at some point and then sell them at the dealership (obviously at a premium)

That was a common practice in the States when the Elise first arrived here.

 

[EspritGuy]

That was a common practice in the States when the Elise first arrived here.

Let no deposit go to waste.

 

[Porter]

In the US it's literally the dealership's order with the factory, not the intended owner's. They usually honor the intended sale but the actual purchase being conducted is from the factory to the dealership, and gets floated on their books or their floorplan (institutional credit). If a buyer backs out it's still the dealer's unit.