I'm out - the cancellations thread

[Silver Storm]

Definitely a step up in cost from the Emira, but I wouldn’t have thought the cost of ownership for a Macca would be that different from a Gallardo.

The thing that put me off about the GT4 or Porsche products in general was/is just that they are a bit common. Even the “special ones” there will be at least 5 at any enthusiast meeting. Very shallow of me, but if I’m spending, what is quite a lot of money for me, then I want to feel it’s at least a little “exclusive”.

I don’t think the Macca will be a long term car for me. Likely just to tick the box and then reevaluate in a couple of years time. We shall see

Agree with your sentiments regarding exclusivity. In my next of the woods, Porsches are fairly common. See them everywhere.

 

[grahamgreen]

Taycans were seriously hot property during the pandemic and were selling for way over. Not many in the market. Now with lease deals coming to an end along with market there are hundreds.

Prices as low as £70’s

 

[meenboli]

It's official - I'm out. Just sent the following in response to the "Invitation to Configure Your Lotus Emira". I know it's salty, and I know it will have no impact but I feel really disappointed and wanted to tell them that.

Dear Lotus Customer Care,

Thank you for your invitation to configure a Lotus Emira.

I have been a Lotus enthusiast since I was 7 years old. The first brand new car I bought was an S1 Elise – a car I have owned for the last 23 years – and I also still own two pre-loved Esprits - a Stevens S3 and an S4. I was therefore really excited when the new Emira was announced and, after due consideration, placed a deposit on 13 August 2021.

Since then, my projected build date has been repeatedly put back. On the 24th November 2022 I received a standard update e-mail stating that my “Emira is scheduled for production in May 2023” but after chasing Lotus for an update I was informed on 18th January this year that my build slot had been pushed back to June with a July delivery date. I had no grumble with these delays; I understand these are estimates not promises, it's a new car being built in a new plant and there are snagging and supply chain issues to deal with.

However, I do expect all customers, new and old to be treated fairly, reasonably, and with honesty.

I received an e-mail from you on 15th February 2023 informing me that the price I had been quoted when I placed my deposits would not be honoured and was increasing by 8% because my build slot had been pushed back to June; cars to be built in May are not affected. It appears that deposits placed in many other countries including the United States are also not affected. So Lotus expects me to pay an additional £6,000 because my car could be rolling down the production line on 1st June rather than the 31st May. This cut-off date seems arbitrary – especially given that my first deposit was placed more than 18 months earlier. There was no explanation in this e-mail of why my order was affected by this price rise while customers who placed orders just days before me are not affected. This doesn’t seem fair or reasonable to me.

Also, I received an e-mail from Lotus on 16th June 2022 containing a link to “a short film from Matt Windle, Managing Director, Lotus Cars”. As I am sure you know in that video, which was filmed on 10th June 2022, Mr Windle stated:

"I commit to you that these costs will not be passed on to you. The price you have been quoted will be the price you pay for your Emira. That is a promise"
Matt Windle, Managing Director, Lotus Cars. 10 June 2022.

This is a direct, clear and unambiguous PROMISE that the price I would pay would be the price I was quoted. That promise has been reneged on even though nothing that is known now was not known then. That's not honest.

I happen to be the Managing Director of a company myself and I can honestly say that I would never renege on a promise like that to a customer no matter what the circumstances. If Mr Windle couldn’t keep that promise, he shouldn’t have made it. It’s simple. No ifs, no buts.

Even so, if Mr Windle had had the good grace to make another video explaining why he feels it is necessary to renege on his promise, then perhaps I would feel differently. He has not.

Lotus had choices here. For example:

You could have said back in June 2022 when Mr Windle made his now broken promise that new deposits would be for orders at a higher price. You did not.

You could have given notice of the price rise and asked customers to commit their final deposit to secure the promised price to a certain deadline. You did not.

I would have accepted either of those scenarios but Lotus has made no attempt to treat UK deposit holders equitably and fairly in my view.

I feel very disappointed and very let down by a brand that I have cherished since I was a small child. The excitement that I was feeling has gone completely and I am instead left with a bitter taste in my mouth. This is a point of principle for me and I really feel you should not treat your customers with such contempt.

For these reasons I have decided not to proceed with my order and would instead ask that my deposits are returned to me as soon as possible.

I know that others feel as strongly as I do about this, but I suspect that Lotus won’t care. Moreover, I suspect that this is a calculated move and that Lotus will see the inevitable cancellations as freeing up slots to deliver cars earlier to those who are willing to swallow this behaviour and / or produce non-FE cars at a higher price. Whatever the rationale it’s no way to treat customers. This change at Lotus is not one that I appreciate.

I'm an only just signed up Emira man - ordered a couple of weeks ago (18th Feb).

I agree with your letter above perfectly - also a business owner - I've stood by many quotes to my customers that haven't gone exactly to plan - and taken the hit accordingly, and increasing my price for any future orders, but not for the ones currently in place (it's just not the done thing).

Incidentally - is the video of Matt Windle making his promise still available? (I'd like to show it to my dealer).

 

[TomE]

Incidentally - is the video of Matt Windle making his promise still available? (I'd like to show it to my dealer).

Congratulations on the deposit. The video is in the price increase thread:
https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/...ing-of-reservations-for-v6-fe.2628/post-79979

 

[EspritGuy]

Congratulations on the deposit. The video is in the price increase thread:
https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/prices-increase-update-from-lotus-and-stopping-of-reservations-for-v6-fe.2628/post-7997

I'd be interested if it mattered with the dealer.

 

[Nova]

Yea, I keep getting Porsche ads from local dealerships in my Facebook feed. Half of them are Taycans at very attractive prices. I thought they were hot property as well. I guess times have changed.

 

[Hell4Leather]

I'm an only just signed up Emira man - ordered a couple of weeks ago (18th Feb).

I agree with your letter above perfectly - also a business owner - I've stood by many quotes to my customers that haven't gone exactly to plan - and taken the hit accordingly, and increasing my price for any future orders, but not for the ones currently in place (it's just not the done thing).

Incidentally - is the video of Matt Windle making his promise still available? (I'd like to show it to my dealer).

the dealer has no control over what Lotus does. You said you just placed your deposit, with all that’s gone on from 2021 til now, do you really want to start your Emira journey by rattling about older stuff just to get upset. It’s going to be 24-30 months for your car, there will be plenty of new stuff to get pissed about.

 

[Hell4Leather]

Congratulations on the deposit. The video is in the price increase thread:
https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/...ing-of-reservations-for-v6-fe.2628/post-79979

You know what would be funny? If they launched this like the Evora, where year 2 versions had better engineering improvements, more options, and a better price. Remember how absolutely pissed the hell off the first year Evora customers were? And subsequently how nobody today gives a rip and the Evora is a well loved work of art. Quirks and all.

 

[lion shf]

You know what would be funny? If they launched this like the Evora, where year 2 versions had better engineering improvements, more options, and a better price. Remember how absolutely pissed the hell off the first year Evora customers were? And subsequently how nobody today gives a rip and the Evora is a well loved work of art. Quirks and all.



Poster child for f ing over your early adopters. Your cautionary tale is cautionary.

 

[KAR120C]

I'm an only just signed up Emira man - ordered a couple of weeks ago (18th Feb).

I agree with your letter above perfectly - also a business owner - I've stood by many quotes to my customers that haven't gone exactly to plan - and taken the hit accordingly, and increasing my price for any future orders, but not for the ones currently in place (it's just not the done thing).

Incidentally - is the video of Matt Windle making his promise still available? (I'd like to show it to my dealer).

Since you had foreknowledge of all that has happened BEFORE you chose to get an Emira, what's the deal with the price video. Matt's promise was not to you, it was to people who had placed an order prior to his video. That's like moving next to an airport then complaining about the noise.

 

[Pegasi]

You know what would be funny? If they launched this like the Evora, where year 2 versions had better engineering improvements, more options, and a better price. Remember how absolutely pissed the hell off the first year Evora customers were? And subsequently how nobody today gives a rip and the Evora is a well loved work of art. Quirks and all.

I am pretty much expecting this. I wouldn't have turned down an FE but sure understand the potential benefits of BASE. However, I think FE prices that held will be a big win in the long run. I don't see prices coming down.

 

[Pegasi]

You know what would be funny? If they launched this like the Evora, where year 2 versions had better engineering improvements, more options, and a better price. Remember how absolutely pissed the hell off the first year Evora customers were? And subsequently how nobody today gives a rip and the Evora is a well loved work of art. Quirks and all.



Poster child for f ing over your early adopters. Your cautionary tale is cautionary.

The whole Toyota BMW thing was tricky to me. I wanted one until I found out about the BMW collaboration. I am certainly not gonna be an early adopter of that. I am also glad Lotus put the AMG second beyond the V6 so hopefully there will be less issues with the new AMG engine. Who knows. Now that the Supra is settled it is high on my list of cars I would like to have.

 

[lion shf]

The whole Toyota BMW thing was tricky to me. I wanted one until I found out about the BMW collaboration. I am certainly not gonna be an early adopter of that. I am also glad Lotus put the AMG second beyond the V6 so hopefully there will be less issues with the new AMG engine. Who knows. Now that the Supra is settled it is high on my list of cars I would like to have.

I know blasphemous but a tuned 4 cylinder Supra new at low $40s calls to me in my sleep
im a dd guy, my son lives in Philly, that’s the kind of car I could throw the keys to the parking garage guy with zero worries. Wouldn’t feel same with an Emira/c8/718

 

[JasonR]

The whole Toyota BMW thing was tricky to me. I wanted one until I found out about the BMW collaboration. I am certainly not gonna be an early adopter of that. I am also glad Lotus put the AMG second beyond the V6 so hopefully there will be less issues with the new AMG engine. Who knows. Now that the Supra is settled it is high on my list of cars I would like to have.

I was super hyped at the unveiling of the racing concept version. I was at Geneva when they did and wanted one then and there. However after finding out it was a BMW drivetrain I was super disappointed…. Test drove it and liked it but it felt all too similar to properly enjoy it and that lack of manual meant it was a non starter. Got a refund on my deposit and never looked back… until now that is. Test drove the manual and it’s a lot better. I can’t help but feel some tinkering and switching off that stupid fake engine noise and it would be very tempting. Only reason I didn’t go for it was the emira so may well still be on the cards in a few years

 

[Porter]

Yea, I keep getting Porsche ads from local dealerships in my Facebook feed. Half of them are Taycans at very attractive prices. I thought they were hot property as well. I guess times have changed.

The fact that about half of them that have been delivered are sitting disabled in dealer service lots with inoperative heaters is probably part of their precipitous nose dive in values.

 

[fellman3]

It's official - I'm out. Just sent the following in response to the "Invitation to Configure Your Lotus Emira". I know it's salty, and I know it will have no impact but I feel really disappointed and wanted to tell them that.

Dear Lotus Customer Care,

Thank you for your invitation to configure a Lotus Emira.

I have been a Lotus enthusiast since I was 7 years old. The first brand new car I bought was an S1 Elise – a car I have owned for the last 23 years – and I also still own two pre-loved Esprits - a Stevens S3 and an S4. I was therefore really excited when the new Emira was announced and, after due consideration, placed a deposit on 13 August 2021.

Since then, my projected build date has been repeatedly put back. On the 24th November 2022 I received a standard update e-mail stating that my “Emira is scheduled for production in May 2023” but after chasing Lotus for an update I was informed on 18th January this year that my build slot had been pushed back to June with a July delivery date. I had no grumble with these delays; I understand these are estimates not promises, it's a new car being built in a new plant and there are snagging and supply chain issues to deal with.

However, I do expect all customers, new and old to be treated fairly, reasonably, and with honesty.

I received an e-mail from you on 15th February 2023 informing me that the price I had been quoted when I placed my deposits would not be honoured and was increasing by 8% because my build slot had been pushed back to June; cars to be built in May are not affected. It appears that deposits placed in many other countries including the United States are also not affected. So Lotus expects me to pay an additional £6,000 because my car could be rolling down the production line on 1st June rather than the 31st May. This cut-off date seems arbitrary – especially given that my first deposit was placed more than 18 months earlier. There was no explanation in this e-mail of why my order was affected by this price rise while customers who placed orders just days before me are not affected. This doesn’t seem fair or reasonable to me.

Also, I received an e-mail from Lotus on 16th June 2022 containing a link to “a short film from Matt Windle, Managing Director, Lotus Cars”. As I am sure you know in that video, which was filmed on 10th June 2022, Mr Windle stated:

"I commit to you that these costs will not be passed on to you. The price you have been quoted will be the price you pay for your Emira. That is a promise"
Matt Windle, Managing Director, Lotus Cars. 10 June 2022.

This is a direct, clear and unambiguous PROMISE that the price I would pay would be the price I was quoted. That promise has been reneged on even though nothing that is known now was not known then. That's not honest.

I happen to be the Managing Director of a company myself and I can honestly say that I would never renege on a promise like that to a customer no matter what the circumstances. If Mr Windle couldn’t keep that promise, he shouldn’t have made it. It’s simple. No ifs, no buts.

Even so, if Mr Windle had had the good grace to make another video explaining why he feels it is necessary to renege on his promise, then perhaps I would feel differently. He has not.

Lotus had choices here. For example:

You could have said back in June 2022 when Mr Windle made his now broken promise that new deposits would be for orders at a higher price. You did not.

You could have given notice of the price rise and asked customers to commit their final deposit to secure the promised price to a certain deadline. You did not.

I would have accepted either of those scenarios but Lotus has made no attempt to treat UK deposit holders equitably and fairly in my view.

I feel very disappointed and very let down by a brand that I have cherished since I was a small child. The excitement that I was feeling has gone completely and I am instead left with a bitter taste in my mouth. This is a point of principle for me and I really feel you should not treat your customers with such contempt.

For these reasons I have decided not to proceed with my order and would instead ask that my deposits are returned to me as soon as possible.

I know that others feel as strongly as I do about this, but I suspect that Lotus won’t care. Moreover, I suspect that this is a calculated move and that Lotus will see the inevitable cancellations as freeing up slots to deliver cars earlier to those who are willing to swallow this behaviour and / or produce non-FE cars at a higher price. Whatever the rationale it’s no way to treat customers. This change at Lotus is not one that I appreciate.

A letter that sums up my feelings exactly. The absence of a video from Matt Windle explaining and apologising for the retrospective application of the price rise is shameful. For his own integrity he should insist on doing it whatever his Comms Director says.

 

[Toomanyloti]

The fact that about half of them that have been delivered are sitting disabled in dealer service lots with inoperative heaters is probably part of their precipitous nose dive in values.

Absolutely this there must be thousands worldwide. And If anyone missed my post in another thread they have stopped production to sort it out. Sound familiar...
I saw a post suggesting the price of the Taycan being inflated. New no but used maybe but probably not in the UK.
I maintain that my car is absolutely amazing and the quality is as good as I have seen on any car. Yes it has issues but we are sort of on the bleeding edge. I have bonded with it in a way I thought I would not. Drove both my Exige and Esprit this week for the first time since autumn last year. They are great fun but hard to live with and the distance in development to the Taycan is mind blowing. I have all these motors because I like all of their features...not all are benefits. Swapping about really helps one appreciate each as an individual.

 

[EspritGuy]

Congratulations on the deposit. The video is in the price increase thread:
https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/prices-increase-update-from-lotus-and-stopping-of-reservations-for-v6-fe.2628/post-7997

I'd be interested if it mattered with the dealer.

 

[Evotion]

We all knew a price rise had to come but, as usual, this has not been handled well.
This will throw a lot of people off but Lotus will still sell them all.

 

[meenboli]

the dealer has no control over what Lotus does. You said you just placed your deposit, with all that’s gone on from 2021 til now, do you really want to start your Emira journey by rattling about older stuff just to get upset. It’s going to be 24-30 months for your car, there will be plenty of new stuff to get pissed about.

Don't you just love forums...

I'm not 'rattling' - nor am I upset, merely surprised.

I don't even want the car yet as it doesn't suit me at the moment - I'm happy to wait - assuming I don't die in the meantime

There is a point however, where the price increase will turn people away. Should there be several more increases for example - and it gets pushed above £90k, I'd probably walk away. Not necessarily because of affordability, but more about what it's worth in my mind (bearing in mind it set off as a sub £80k car).

What happens if the supply chain issues mysteriously go away - and then they reduce the price by £10k or so (like Tesla did - and again yesterday ) to create fresh demand?

I'm merely pointing out (as others have already done) that in the normal world of business you can't (and shouldn't) increase your prices after a deal has been done - otherwise there was no point doing the deal.

I'm sorry if I repeated things that have been said 9 months ago - but please note, I'm new to the forum, so haven't managed to read through all 84 pages of this thread in the 3 weeks that I joined.

Oh yeah - and please don't tell me it'll be 30 months... not sure I can cope with that

There is one benefit though - if the output is far less than they anticipated, then that means less of them on the roads - period.

That has to be a good thing in the long run for resale values... (now there's a can of worms...)