I'm out - the cancellations thread

[Porter]

It doesn't seem like they have had that many cancellations. We are not getting loads of people in here talking about reduced wait times as they have been moved up. The i4 version maybe, as that is so far away, lots of people are probably just thinking, 'whats the point in waiting', which is fair, as 2024 onwards is insane when you put money down 2 years ago!

How many V6's have been cancelled from the thousands on order? 5%, less? Feels like we have all just swallowed the 6K increase if we get the car in the next few months.

I'm not saying anything about volume. I was simply pointing out the damage that Lotus has done to their brand, and recognizing that some of the sentiment here might not exist in the way that it does if not for that damage.

It's not like the people who have cancelled did so because they aren't interested in the product. Placing a deposit at all was a vote of confidence in the product and the brand. They cancelled because of the way they perceived their treatment at the hands of a company that SHOULD be prioritizing their customers' experience. Very few of those who have cancelled will return, and they WILL tell other people who might have become Lotus customers all about their negative experience.

 

[action_turtle]

I'm not saying anything about volume. I was simply pointing out the damage that Lotus has done to their brand, and recognizing that some of the sentiment here might not exist in the way that it does if not for that damage.

It's not like the people who have cancelled did so because they aren't interested in the product. Placing a deposit at all was a vote of confidence in the product and the brand. They cancelled because of the way they perceived their treatment at the hands of a company that SHOULD be prioritizing their customers' experience. Very few of those who have cancelled will return, and they WILL tell other people who might have become Lotus customers all about their negative experience.

Sure, i'd agree that they have damaged the brand's integrity. People seem to be turning a blind eye to it, though. "Cost of living crisis" etc etc. I would have expected the increase to have news stories on it. Type "Emira price increase" into google and you only get forum talk. They absolutely should be handling this differently. I guess even with the increase, the majority of people still want the car. I think it sets the stage for the i4 to get a price bump again in 2024 though.

 

[Cachaco131]

I'm not saying anything about volume. I was simply pointing out the damage that Lotus has done to their brand, and recognizing that some of the sentiment here might not exist in the way that it does if not for that damage.

It's not like the people who have cancelled did so because they aren't interested in the product. Placing a deposit at all was a vote of confidence in the product and the brand. They cancelled because of the way they perceived their treatment at the hands of a company that SHOULD be prioritizing their customers' experience. Very few of those who have cancelled will return, and they WILL tell other people who might have become Lotus customers all about their negative experience.

Damage to the brand? The baseline for the brand was never high. I don't think there was much downside so...if anything, the brand has not benefitted from the latest products and management.

 

[vision]

Damage to the brand? The baseline for the brand was never high. I don't think there was much downside so...if anything, the brand has not benefitted from the latest products and management.

why r u here?

 

[Cachaco131]

why r u here?

Former Elise owner, love how Lotus cars drive. Do I want to be a brand ambassador? No. Do I want Lotus to be a much larger manufacturer? Probably not. Do I care as much as others about customer experience at the dealer (gifts, etc). Def not.

I just don't think the brand is damaged because it has never been a wow brand. That doesn't make it bad, I'm totally fine with it.

 

[TomE]

Damage to the brand? The baseline for the brand was never high. I don't think there was much downside so...if anything, the brand has not benefitted from the latest products and management.

The baseline might not have been high but it was in a clear niche and fairly consistent, encapsulated by “for the drivers” (with an unspoken element of having to compromise on a few things to get that).

Now in the search for a broader market appeal and “for the daily drivers” they seem to have simultaneously disappointed the old “for the drivers” niche and failed to meet the non-driving attribute requirements of the “for the daily drivers” crowd, including customer service and quality.

In that respect they’ve both failed to raise and recast the brand and eroded parts of the existing brand. It’s symptomatic of still being engineering- and production-led rather than customer-led in their thinking and execution.

It’s a shame, as it feels like a missed opportunity they could so easily have grasped and is slipping away from them.

 

[Leonard]

The baseline might not have been high but it was in a clear niche and fairly consistent, encapsulated by “for the drivers” (with an unspoken element of having to compromise on a few things to get that).

Now in the search for a broader market appeal and “for the daily drivers” they seem to have simultaneously disappointed the old “for the drivers” niche and failed to meet the non-driving attribute requirements of the “for the daily drivers” crowd, including customer service and quality.

In that respect they’ve both failed to raise and recast the brand and eroded parts of the existing brand. It’s symptomatic of still being engineering- and production-led rather than customer-led in their thinking and execution.

It’s a shame, as it feels like a missed opportunity they could so easily have grasped and is slipping away from them.

Not forgetting the new non Lotus 'for the drivers'

 

[kitkat]

The baseline might not have been high but it was in a clear niche and fairly consistent, encapsulated by “for the drivers” (with an unspoken element of having to compromise on a few things to get that).

Now in the search for a broader market appeal and “for the daily drivers” they seem to have simultaneously disappointed the old “for the drivers” niche and failed to meet the non-driving attribute requirements of the “for the daily drivers” crowd, including customer service and quality.

In that respect they’ve both failed to raise and recast the brand and eroded parts of the existing brand. It’s symptomatic of still being engineering- and production-led rather than customer-led in their thinking and execution.

It’s a shame, as it feels like a missed opportunity they could so easily have grasped and is slipping away from them.

Wanted to say that this completely encapsulates how I feel about the situation, don't think I could have worded it better.

I still want the car but I'm completely empathetic to anyone who falls in either `for the drivers` or `for the daily drivers` camp who have been let down by Lotus. For me I still land in the middle of that spectrum where I'm willing to deal with a little less rawness and a little bit of unreliability -- but only up to a point and at a certain price.

Positioning the brand towards someone like me is likely unsustainable.

 

[Concept24]

Have we gone too far calling Porsches numb? Yes, we have.

Have you seen this review?
These guys aren't exactly new drivers of sportscars.

 

[Magma]

Have you seen this review?
These guys aren't exactly new drivers of sportscars.

Yes, but Jack LOVES Porsche's and Mark used to not care for them, but he has come to the dark side

 

[lion shf]

Have you seen this review?
These guys aren't exactly new drivers of sportscars.

Savage n jack are my favs but dare I show you this
”I bonded with the car.….”

and this (he laughs with glee at 18 min mark)

and of course

shall I continue?

 

[Concept24]

Quotes from the Savage Geese video:
Mark: I have yet to get into ANY car where you have so much front end grip. You are literally connected to the wheels. Nothing else compares.

Jack: There is nothing else like this. I get why you claim that Porches are numb. After driving something like this, you know what totally connected is.

Mark: I know I complain about how Porsches are SO lifeless. You have to get into something like this to understand why.

The Porsche has to be more things to more people, so it must feel more refined.

Jack: If you are looking for a weekend toy, I have yet to experience ANYTHING like this, especially in the $100,000 range.

Mark: You owe it to yourself to get one of these. The bottom line is the Evora is EXTREMELY special. There is NOTHING that drives like it on the planet.....I'm not even playing that up.
The connectiveness that you feel through the body of the car, the chassis, and the steering is remarkable.

 

[lion shf]

Matt Prior drove them back to back and preferred the 718. For years the 911 has been taking a backseat to the 718. Geese drove the 718 T with hate in his heart and in 30 seconds bonded with the car.
mic drop by the rick (me)
honestly my biggest frustration is goose, jack, Doug, big Matt and Josh, throttle house, everyman driver, straightpipes and maske haven’t had a go. As silly as it sounds, their reviews will play a big part in my purchase (c8/718/Emira 6/Emira 4)

 

[Concept24]

It'll be interesting to see more US-based reviews at some point. We may have to wait awhile.
One thing that influences me quite a bit is exclusivity. As I mentioned before, Porsches are a dime a dozen around here. I had far more attention in the LC500 than I did in the 2020 911 4S. Of course, the McLaren was like an alien, even in Santa Monica, which is not too far from Beverly Hills. I may see one every year unless the local dealership has a cars & coffee event (which I always attend if I know about it.)

 

[Beady]

Even though I test drove the vantage and bought an R8 instead, I’m still feeling pangs of jealousy- this looks stunning!!

Today I am VERY excited !

 

[Evotion]

I feel like I have now having a total giggle at all of this stuff.

AT 600 miles now and the Emira is getting better and better.... and better... in every way, even sound.
I really smashed it today in the twisties and I believe I could not have gone faster in the Exige 410 Sport due to the way the Emira keeps it shape.

Then there is the looks... £80K dynamics? £200K looks? Overall.. a bobby bargain.

 

[benjh1028]

It doesn't seem like they have had that many cancellations. We are not getting loads of people in here talking about reduced wait times as they have been moved up. The i4 version maybe, as that is so far away, lots of people are probably just thinking, 'whats the point in waiting', which is fair, as 2024 onwards is insane when you put money down 2 years ago!

How many V6's have been cancelled from the thousands on order? 5%, less? Feels like we have all just swallowed the 6K increase if we get the car in the next few months.

Not moving people up on the list as others drop eases the pressure on fulfillment. Any chance dealers are being told not to move people up on the list as to lesson the heat on Lotus to produce?

 

[Dommo]

Not moving people up on the list as others drop eases the pressure on fulfillment. Any chance dealers are being told not to move people up on the list as to lesson the heat on Lotus to produce?

CC told me some time ago that I had to request to be on a cancellation list to even be considered and that cancellations were offered to people further down the list!

I did ask why but I was told that she couldn't tell me due to too much negative talk on social media

Needless to say I didn't request to go on the list through fear of somehow being taken out of my existing place in the order and ending up missing my original slot!!

 

[Toomanyloti]

The baseline might not have been high but it was in a clear niche and fairly consistent, encapsulated by “for the drivers” (with an unspoken element of having to compromise on a few things to get that).

Now in the search for a broader market appeal and “for the daily drivers” they seem to have simultaneously disappointed the old “for the drivers” niche and failed to meet the non-driving attribute requirements of the “for the daily drivers” crowd, including customer service and quality.

In that respect they’ve both failed to raise and recast the brand and eroded parts of the existing brand. It’s symptomatic of still being engineering- and production-led rather than customer-led in their thinking and execution.

It’s a shame, as it feels like a missed opportunity they could so easily have grasped and is slipping away from them.

This is the drum I have been banging for a while admittedly not so well and concisely put!

We only have to look at the mountain biking chap* who collected from the factory.
Lotus must have been wetting themselves at last finding their holy grail customer who obviously knew so little about the car or gave two shiny shites it was coming almost to the point he had forgotten.
These are the chaps they are after not 'us' hence not giving any @@@k's about us at all.
Made me laugh a grown man now rides an MTB like I rode a BMX when it was all invented millions of years ago. I can still do a few silly tricks

*no offence intended he seems like a nice fella.

 

[Mike-engel]

Hi all.
Been hovering but not really contributing lately. First, a couple of questions.

1. Does anyone actually know what percentage of deposit holders have asked for their deposits back and moved on? It sure seems like a lot of folks here on the forum are baling, and for those sticking in for now, the enthusiasm has really fallen of.

2. I know there were a large number of deposits around the reveal in 7/2021, but when the reviews of real cars started coming out, does anyone know how many additional deposits were made?

3. I thought people might be interested in my most recent communication with Lotus cars USA (Tammy). Here’s her reply to my email listed below hers.

Hello Michael,



I understand your frustration and thank you for reaching out to us with questions on your Emira order.



At this time, we are working on a communication to our Dealer Network and clients which will be out very soon. This communication should address your concerns and updates on production etc. We understand our communication has not been to par and received this feedback during our Emira tour. Our team is working on improving this for the future to make sure our clients are kept updated in a timely manner and offer transparency to the progress of our orders.



I very much appreciate your enthusiasm for the brand and hope soon you will be driving your Emira! We are confident it will be worth the wait! As always, we recommend staying on touch with your depositing dealer as they will be provided updates as they become available.



Regards

	TAMMY MCKENZIE
RELATIONSHIP MANAGER
[email protected]
Tel: 646 432 6834
GROUP LOTUS	47584 Galleon Dr, Plymouth, Michigan 48170, United States

Dear Tammy,
It has been a long time since I’ve reached out, but I am trying to get some kind of information on what is happening with Emira production, or lack thereof. As a reminder, I placed my deposit with Flow Mazda in Winston Salem, NC on July 24, 2021. My wait list position at the time of my deposit was #31 at my dealer. When allocations were announced I learned I was not going to get a car with the first batch, and then learned that first editions to the US were limited to the 750 cars in the first allocation. As someone who put in their deposit shortly after the debut, and who was given the assurance that as long as my deposit was in by November of 2021 I would be able to get a first edition at the price that was quoted at the time of my deposit, you can imagine how disappointing it has been to learn those assurances are not going to be honored. And since then, there has been a litany of delays, and features have been subtracted due to supply chain issues. I have reached out to my dealer many times asking for updates and don’t receive responses, except those of a non-commital nature and the suggestion that we speak by phone. It feels like this is a way of shining me on without having to commit to a set of facts. My last two queries have gone unanswered at all. I’ve also learned that buyers who placed their deposits long after me will be receiving FE cars simply because of where they placed their deposit. One such person placed their deposit at a new dealership that didn’t even exist when I place my deposit. In a word, this seems patently unfair. I was really excited by Emira when I placed my deposit, and realized that there would be a substantial wait until it would be delivered. But I’ve got to tell you that my enthusiasm has waned significantly since then.

1. I won’t get the car originally described as a FE
2. I won’t even get a FE
3. The price I expected to pay for the car is likely not to be honored due to inflation
4. I’ve received literally zero information related to my car from lotus, lotus USA or my lotus dealer since the deposit was placed.
5. Despite what I suspect are substantial cancellations, I’ve had no updates on my wait list position

I really would like to follow through with my Emira purchase, but I can’t wait forever, particularly when there have been so many broken promises already. It’s hard to imagine a positive owner experience after such an unprofessional lead in.

So I guess I’m asking for some sign that there is an Emira in my future, will the promises made eventually be honored, what is “eventually”, and can I have any confidence that my owner experience will be a positive one. This was to be my first lotus purchase. As you can tell, I’m skeptical, and am close to requesting a return of my deposit and moving on to a more to a manufacturer who cares enough about their customers to communicate regularly and treat them fairly. Yet, I also can’t adequately express how disappointed I am to be writing this email in the first place. I really do feel pretty let down.

I would appreciate it if you could reply to my questions, offer some updates about what is actually happening with Emira production, and give me some facts about where I stand specifically. You have been the only person this entire time who has ever responded to me in a helpful way.

Thanks.
Mike Engel

—————-
My message was sent on 2/4/2023. The email she refers to has not come, and still no comms from my dealer. At this point I am an inch from pulling the plug on all this. I simply don’t know how Lotus is going to stay in business with this kind of performance by their leadership. I think I represent the group of buyers they were trying to capture. I love cars, have resources to be able to purchase a car like Emira, and have never owned a lotus befor. Driven two (M100 elan and Evora GT). Almost pulled the trigger on an Evora GT recently. But after all that has transpired, I can’t see myself buying any lotus product. In short, the company and my dealer have failed miserably. Such a shame. As they approach their electrified future, it’s also highly unlikely I will be a buyer, and I’m equally unlikely to recommend lotus to anyone I know.

Again, I’m so disappointed. I’d hoped for so much more.