More details for KEF Audio

[Gooner]

I’m currently in discussion with a very well regarded installer about an upgrade.

We’re going to try keeping the existing speakers but changing over the amp, adding a 10” sub, plus install sound deadening.

At the moment the view is to disconnect the centre speaker entirely as in his experience these can cause more harm than good. My only hesitation is that I believe the centre speaker to be one of the 3 Uni Q units in the car and it would be a shame to waste it.

There is an option to give it a go with the centre speaker but I’d need to upgrade the amp and adding a a bit of additional labour time which we may not end up going with after testing.

Before I make a call on which way to go, I wanted to see if anyone had already carried out what ok looking at (either with or without the centre) and had a view at all?

 

[Honcho]

I’m of the opinion that no matter how good the sound system it doesn’t matter if it’s in a car as loud as the Emira. With a better system you could turn up the volume and get good sound but also long term hearing loss.

 

[seriously]

I’m of the opinion that no matter how good the sound system it doesn’t matter if it’s in a car as loud as the Emira. With a better system you could turn up the volume and get good sound but also long term hearing loss.

Sound deadening will likely help this

 

[Subw00er]

I’m currently in discussion with a very well regarded installer about an upgrade.

We’re going to try keeping the existing speakers but changing over the amp, adding a 10” sub, plus install sound deadening.

At the moment the view is to disconnect the centre speaker entirely as in his experience these can cause more harm than good. My only hesitation is that I believe the centre speaker to be one of the 3 Uni Q units in the car and it would be a shame to waste it.

There is an option to give it a go with the centre speaker but I’d need to upgrade the amp and adding a a bit of additional labour time which we may not end up going with after testing.

Before I make a call on which way to go, I wanted to see if anyone had already carried out what ok looking at (either with or without the centre) and had a view at all?

I used to compete in car audio and I think your installer is likely taking the right approach. The amp in this car is clearly pretty "sub" par and a good amp can make a crappy speaker sound pretty good, so that should really help. When looking at amps, choose one that tends to be on the "warmer" side as opposed to "accurate and bright or forward" as it will tone down the shrillness of the KEFs a bit. I've listened to a bunch of KEFs from best buy specials to their high end Blade. To me, their only decent speaker as far as I can tell is the R1 bookshelves, and even the well regarded LS50 is really pretty crap. Their tweeters tend to be very forward and harsh to my ears. Anyway, I highly recommend you get a "softer" amp.

The sub section of the amp is also severely underpowered and even if it had power, I presume it would still stink based on its proximity to the car vent - so either block that path to the speaker or just make another box (a lot easier).

With respect to the center speaker, I've played with this a bit in the past. I think I had a 3 way "mixed mono" setup at one point but AudioControl used to (circa 1990's) make a better LR mixer for the front speakers to give you a center channel. I doubt its still made, but if you can find an ESP-3, that would be a fun piece to play with. It had some other spatial effects processing stuff too. Maybe there is something modern out now that does this?! With all of that said, unless you are really into the hobby side of car audio, perhaps the center channel is realistically best left unpowered. You will have to buy another amp and deal with its associated costs (distribution blocks, mounting etc). You could always add this later with little affect on the current install - just let the installer know so he doesn't cut all the wires off indiscriminately or something. Let us know how it works out!

 

[Evotion]

The setup is lacking in power but overall I am now enjoying it enough to leave it alone.
It got better from the off after a number of months seemingly to bed in.

 

[KJWEmira]

I’m currently in discussion with a very well regarded installer about an upgrade.

We’re going to try keeping the existing speakers but changing over the amp, adding a 10” sub, plus install sound deadening.

At the moment the view is to disconnect the centre speaker entirely as in his experience these can cause more harm than good. My only hesitation is that I believe the centre speaker to be one of the 3 Uni Q units in the car and it would be a shame to waste it.

There is an option to give it a go with the centre speaker but I’d need to upgrade the amp and adding a a bit of additional labour time which we may not end up going with after testing.

Before I make a call on which way to go, I wanted to see if anyone had already carried out what ok looking at (either with or without the centre) and had a view at all?

Hi Gooner,

Where are you based? The reason I ask is because I've changed all the speakers in my Emira, added tweeters to the A Pillars, added a 10" sub and an additional amp + added sound deadening to the whole of the rear and both doors - it's now a proper sound system!

Should you wish to come and have a listen to my system before spending any money then just shout - I'm in Kent, Maidstone area.

 

[benjh1028]

I’m currently in discussion with a very well regarded installer about an upgrade.

We’re going to try keeping the existing speakers but changing over the amp, adding a 10” sub, plus install sound deadening.

At the moment the view is to disconnect the centre speaker entirely as in his experience these can cause more harm than good. My only hesitation is that I believe the centre speaker to be one of the 3 Uni Q units in the car and it would be a shame to waste it.

There is an option to give it a go with the centre speaker but I’d need to upgrade the amp and adding a a bit of additional labour time which we may not end up going with after testing.

Before I make a call on which way to go, I wanted to see if anyone had already carried out what ok looking at (either with or without the centre) and had a view at all?

I don't believe there is a center speaker. Others here should chime in.

 

[Nova]

I used to compete in car audio and I think your installer is likely taking the right approach. The amp in this car is clearly pretty "sub" par and a good amp can make a crappy speaker sound pretty good, so that should really help. When looking at amps, choose one that tends to be on the "warmer" side as opposed to "accurate and bright or forward" as it will tone down the shrillness of the KEFs a bit. I've listened to a bunch of KEFs from best buy specials to their high end Blade. To me, their only decent speaker as far as I can tell is the R1 bookshelves, and even the well regarded LS50 is really pretty crap. Their tweeters tend to be very forward and harsh to my ears. Anyway, I highly recommend you get a "softer" amp.

The sub section of the amp is also severely underpowered and even if it had power, I presume it would still stink based on its proximity to the car vent - so either block that path to the speaker or just make another box (a lot easier).

With respect to the center speaker, I've played with this a bit in the past. I think I had a 3 way "mixed mono" setup at one point but AudioControl used to (circa 1990's) make a better LR mixer for the front speakers to give you a center channel. I doubt its still made, but if you can find an ESP-3, that would be a fun piece to play with. It had some other spatial effects processing stuff too. Maybe there is something modern out now that does this?! With all of that said, unless you are really into the hobby side of car audio, perhaps the center channel is realistically best left unpowered. You will have to buy another amp and deal with its associated costs (distribution blocks, mounting etc). You could always add this later with little affect on the current install - just let the installer know so he doesn't cut all the wires off indiscriminately or something. Let us know how it works out!

None of our knowledge from the 90s apply to modern car audio systems anymore. We were just playing with the mixed mono center speaker, but modern amps with DSP processing is making it a much more methodical process of dialing in individual speakers and then also looking at the final result with all speakers playing. The DSP processing also provides parametric EQ capability, so the tonality of an amp no longer matters as well.

I believe most OEM-aftermarket integrations are going with something like an Audison system that has all of these things integrated and the installers are given training on the procedure to follow to tune everything. It's pretty impressive in terms of the engineering that goes into it.

I generally like the center channel on car speakers - it definitely helps with pulling the soundstage more towards the front of the listener rather than off to one side - this is especially important to tweeter frequencies, which are intensity based rather than phase based for location detection. Most 1-inch dome tweeters without a deep waveguide does not beam until about 5kHz, so that means there is not much volume drop from listening to it off-axis. This is why car audio typically have such unstable soundstages where 0-1500Hz is a mess due to driver location and secondary reflections, 1500-5000Hz tends to be biased towards the side that the listener is on, and then above 5000Hz starts to move towards the center of the dash. Male vocals will be difficult to locate, female vocals will be listener-biased, and the band instruments will be generally smeared across the dash.

In any case, I really like what KEF has done with their speakers. There are several real solid driver engineering companies in the world and KEF is one of them.

 

[NigeT]

I don't believe there is a center speaker. Others here should chime in.

Theres definately a centre speaker in the dash, if you look from outside through the windscreen you can see the cone.

 

[KJWEmira]

I don't believe there is a center speaker. Others here should chime in.

100% there is a center speaker in the dashboard because mine is no longer in use

 

[Gooner]

Hi Gooner,

Where are you based? The reason I ask is because I've changed all the speakers in my Emira, added tweeters to the A Pillars, added a 10" sub and an additional amp + added sound deadening to the whole of the rear and both doors - it's now a proper sound system!

Should you wish to come and have a listen to my system before spending any money then just shout - I'm in Kent, Maidstone area.

That’s super kind and I appreciate the offer, but I’m a fair schlep from Maidstone.

 

[Tokion]

I’m currently in discussion with a very well regarded installer about an upgrade.

We’re going to try keeping the existing speakers but changing over the amp, adding a 10” sub, plus install sound deadening.

At the moment the view is to disconnect the centre speaker entirely as in his experience these can cause more harm than good. My only hesitation is that I believe the centre speaker to be one of the 3 Uni Q units in the car and it would be a shame to waste it.

There is an option to give it a go with the centre speaker but I’d need to upgrade the amp and adding a a bit of additional labour time which we may not end up going with after testing.

Before I make a call on which way to go, I wanted to see if anyone had already carried out what ok looking at (either with or without the centre) and had a view at all?

Hi Gooner. This is similar to the route that I also want to go. I want to go with German brand ETON from their Graphite series for their 10 inch woofer, and I will have a custom made closed box (no port) cabinet of 16 liters as prescribed by Eton. I will also exchange the secondary woofer(s) with the similarly sized ones from the ETON Graphite Series.

I agree with you to keep the 3 x KEF coaxial drivers, including the center speaker. You should convince your installer to keep the center KEF unit intact and make it work by fine adjustments. I also agree about replacing all amps. The question will be electronic crossovers including DSP. I will also have a professional installer, and the important thing will be to be sure that you and your installer have the same goals in mind.

I wish you luck, and I will need some myself too. I just took delivery, after a 3 years wait, for my (i4) 2.0 Turbo First Editon (in Tokyo Japan).

Keep me informed with your progress. It is also OK to PM me ;-)

 

[Nova]

Hi Gooner. This is similar to the route that I also want to go. I want to go with German brand ETON from their Graphite series for their 10 inch woofer, and I will have a custom made closed box (no port) cabinet of 16 liters as prescribed by Eton. I will also exchange the secondary woofer(s) with the similarly sized ones from the ETON Graphite Series.

I agree with you to keep the 3 x KEF coaxial drivers, including the center speaker. You should convince your installer to keep the center KEF unit intact and make it work by fine adjustments. I also agree about replacing all amps. The question will be electronic crossovers including DSP. I will also have a professional installer, and the important thing will be to be sure that you and your installer have the same goals in mind.

I wish you luck, and I will need some myself too. I just took delivery, after a 3 years wait, for my (i4) 2.0 Turbo First Editon (in Tokyo Japan).

Keep me informed with your progress. It is also OK to PM me ;-)

Wow, congratulations. Did you already post your impression of the KEF system somewhere else? Looking forward to reading it.

 

[RyanGphoto]

Wow, congratulations. Did you already post your impression of the KEF system somewhere else? Looking forward to reading it.

I would love to read it as well. I think the system is lacking for sure, but the engine "noise" makes up for it for me. I think someone would have to drop $4k+ in order to get something that sounds "good".. I think putting sound deadening alone in the doors and the back shelf would certainly help A TON. I wish that was an option from the factory for ALL car manufacturers.. I would much rather a super quiet ride (like a Rolls Royce) than all the wind noise I have in both of my cars... It would make the sound system soo much better for sure.
Ryan G

 

[Tokion]

Wow, congratulations. Did you already post your impression of the KEF system somewhere else? Looking forward to reading it.

I just took delivery of the car, and right now it is in for polishing and ceramic coating. Still very early days. I have already listed to the KEF system in several test drives in both a V6 (Automatic) car with Touring suspension, and a 4-cylinder 2.0 Tourng with DCT and Sports suspension. And very recently I also took delivery and briefly drove my very own 4-cylinder AMG 2.0 Turbo FE Sports suspension. I prepared some latest generation USB thumb drive with two alternative systems 320 level music files. I have found that the so-called KEF system basically work, but that it isn’t particularly brilliant in its standard form. Especially mid-bass and low bass is vague and impresise.

However, my belief is that the 3 x KEF coaxial drivers will work well, and that they are capable of good sound. The mid bass drivers at the rear and also the main subwoofer at one side, must go and be replaced. My candidates are from German company EATON. I also believe that the entire amplification and the DSP should also be exchanged by much higher quality components. I am currently looking at a very promising candidate from Audiotec Fischer, that is another German company.

I will of course also work on the damping of doors (hopefully without adding too much weight - and I have a candidate for that too). I am not aiming for maximum damping and isolation, because after all the Emira is a sportscar, and I want to hear the live sounds from driving the car, and not isolate myself from the naturally surrounding noises.

My exploration will take a longer time, and I also first of all need to run in (break in?) the car

 

[Subw00er]

None of our knowledge from the 90s apply to modern car audio systems anymore. We were just playing with the mixed mono center speaker, but modern amps with DSP processing is making it a much more methodical process of dialing in individual speakers and then also looking at the final result with all speakers playing. The DSP processing also provides parametric EQ capability, so the tonality of an amp no longer matters as well.

I believe most OEM-aftermarket integrations are going with something like an Audison system that has all of these things integrated and the installers are given training on the procedure to follow to tune everything. It's pretty impressive in terms of the engineering that goes into it.

I generally like the center channel on car speakers - it definitely helps with pulling the soundstage more towards the front of the listener rather than off to one side - this is especially important to tweeter frequencies, which are intensity based rather than phase based for location detection. Most 1-inch dome tweeters without a deep waveguide does not beam until about 5kHz, so that means there is not much volume drop from listening to it off-axis. This is why car audio typically have such unstable soundstages where 0-1500Hz is a mess due to driver location and secondary reflections, 1500-5000Hz tends to be biased towards the side that the listener is on, and then above 5000Hz starts to move towards the center of the dash. Male vocals will be difficult to locate, female vocals will be listener-biased, and the band instruments will be generally smeared across the dash.

In any case, I really like what KEF has done with their speakers. There are several real solid driver engineering companies in the world and KEF is one of them.

I'm sorry if this offends, but if you are impressed with our KEF, or any KEF actually, and modern light processing as with our Emira, you really need to listen to more systems - home or auto. The Emira system really doesn't do anything particularly well, and the reason so many folks complain about it is because this is fact. My aged info absolutely does still apply. I've been an audiophile for four decades and watched the progress of this hobby closely, in and out of the car. No modern system can touch some of the systems coming out of the SQ guys competing in the 90's.. STILL! I have a very decent OEM audio system in my volvo that is well processed, but that is the only system I've heard where the processing actually helps things... maybe in a s550 I heard as well. A real audiophile will tell you that the less processing in the signal path is always desirable and almost always truer to the original intent of the music artist.

 

[Nova]

I'm sorry if this offends, but if you are impressed with our KEF, or any KEF actually, and modern light processing as with our Emira, you really need to listen to more systems - home or auto. The Emira system really doesn't do anything particularly well, and the reason so many folks complain about it is because this is fact. My aged info absolutely does still apply. I've been an audiophile for four decades and watched the progress of this hobby closely, in and out of the car. No modern system can touch some of the systems coming out of the SQ guys competing in the 90's.. STILL! I have a very decent OEM audio system in my volvo that is well processed, but that is the only system I've heard where the processing actually helps things... maybe in a s550 I heard as well. A real audiophile will tell you that the less processing in the signal path is always desirable and almost always truer to the original intent of the music artist.

No worries, it doesn't offend me at all. I have enough experience with audio systems, both as a long time enthusiast as well as a professional in the trade, to have some confidence about my own abilities to assess sound quality. I am not saying that my assessments are always valid to others, because there are an extremely high number of environmental and subjective variables when it comes to sound quality perception.

I was recently reminded that I got into audio because it brought people together to enjoy something, not to get into meaningless arguments with strangers. So I'll just say that I agree with you that with all things being equal, less processing will aways be more desirable from an accuracy/transparency perspective. This is one of the reasons I enjoy my 2-channel stereo with two huge "vintage" style speakers in a mildly dampened room.

Edit: If you want to discuss anything specific about the KEF system in the Emira, or KEF speaker designs in general, I'd be glad to engage. I don't think we'll get anywhere talking about our own subjective perceptions or preferences, especially if they depend on memories going back several decades.

 

[Hell4Leather]

This was asked before but I can’t find the resolution: My subwoofer “pops” when I get into the car sometimes. What’s the issue and how do I correct?

 

[Six Speed Stephen]

This was asked before but I can’t find the resolution: My subwoofer “pops” when I get into the car sometimes. What’s the issue and how do I correct?

Just say "excuse me" to your passenger

 

[RyanGphoto]

This was asked before but I can’t find the resolution: My subwoofer “pops” when I get into the car sometimes. What’s the issue and how do I correct?

Mine just started as well. I have a few little things happening that I might take a trip to the deal for..