U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date

[DF_Toronto]

well that was a book haha...

so I got lost in some of that, but you thought there was 500 coming, they raised it to 700 which made your odds better, and because you assumed you were getting an FE but didn't make the cut you are now upset with them?

I feel like they've been mostly on point with everything they've disclosed. I feel like a lot of folks don't understand allocations for vehicle builds and didn't understand they were just getting in line to get an allocation at some point.

I understand not reading my book . But that’s not what I said or what happened at all. If that was the case I wouldn’t be upset whatsoever.

 

[EspritGuy]

That would be awesome!

I know you’ve been hearing this a lot and are an amazing shepherd of information to them. I really hope that when they understand comms have been an issue that they understand one crucial thing. I’ve spent my career at a huge enterprise and there is a cardinal rule that is if you tell your client to expect something, you better deliver on it. So if you aren’t 100% committed to making something happen, then don’t say anything.

Lotus has always been my favourite car brand, but as someone who lives in the heart of downtown in a condominium who commutes less than 8K KM per year (mostly to the golf club) in snowy Canada it’s been impractical to own 2 cars for my usage where it costs 100K to buy an additional parking space (a Lotus is a summer toy). I saw the Emira on YouTube on July 8th and immediately said screw it! Assuming the pre-order / registration of interest was like most things and similar to some buddies who bought the Vette I went to the Lotus website where they said give us your info and we’ll contact you or along those lines. So I just assumed there were no deposits being taken yet and there would be more info to come for those who signed up, having never even seen or knowing there was a local dealership (the local one here is called Gentry and they sell a number of brands), so had no idea. Anyway, I get a call about a week or a little more from Gentry who I guess got my info from Lotus and they’d been taking orders all along so I immediately went right in and gave my deposit. I’m around #30 and for some reason at the time I had done simple math based on 500 for NA I thought I got somewhere and figured I’d probably be right around the cutoff but would just miss it and be part of 2023 deliverIes. However the dealer at the time volunteered to me an estimate of a fully specked car that turned out to be bang on.

I’ll preface by saying that I have no past experience with the dealership and have absolutely zero reason then or at this time to distrust them and anything I’ve heard has been positive. That being said and happening to know some major players in the car industry I know a few things about dealerships hooking up their repeat customers (and why not), I decided to call Lotus USA. I got right through to a super nice guy, he was very chatty and we talked for about 45 minutes. My main question was if there’s a way to know that I’m really the number I am on the list and essentially that the dealership (not mine specifically) ins’t holding half the slots ahead of me for “VIPs”. He kinda laughed about it and suggested yeah that probably happens but nothing you can do about it. Anyway, he also volunteered info about financing (I assumed small company, pay cash or get your own lending if you need it), would basically be equivalent to any Volvo. Then he volunteered that they’re also finalizing what the FE will be but it will include all the options available and have the badge, and anyone will be able to get it and those will be the first cars. If you want a lower spec those will come out next at a lower price. Even though I’d been kicking myself for thinking deposits weren’t being taken yet on July 8th, and this news meant I could get an FE after all I told him they should make the thing limited so it’s more special. As an A-type individual and loving the Seneca Blue (which I also thought might be “limited”) I immediately called the dealer who confirmed this and told him I know exactly what I want and I’ll e-mail it to you. Basically saying you know what I want in advance FYI - V6 manual full spec FE in the exact show car trim, you’ll only need to contact me about other little features when able to put my order in.

I apologize this has been very long winded. The point is, I’ve spent the last 7 months expecting to get an FE for ____price which Lotus themselves e-mailed me with my reference number. I’ve acquired a 2nd parking space and also put down a deposit towards EV charge installation my condo is doing in the next year, and I’ve registered myself for the 132 which will replace my AMG E Cabrio when it comes out. I want to be a Lotus fan boy and love my Lotuses. I think Lotus should have made a limited number of FE (that had something unique to them aside from the badge) from the beginning. HOWEVER, if the Star Trek boys sat around in a room recently and said you know what, that was a mistake we should have made that decision 7 months ago so we’re going to change our minds now. OR, they have huge demand and costs have gone up (likely) so we’re going to cut off this car we told folks about and price it higher to get that spec (who’ve put a deposit down). That’s on THEM, months ago they should have stopped promising anyone giving deposits from that point that they can get an FE or told them that it’s TBD.

As far as I’m concerned they have to honour what they’ve been telling anyone who’s given a deposit (and they have been even if it wasn’t in writing). Do they literally have to? No. And nothing is guaranteed, Lotus could go bankrupt and I could get no car and no deposit. At that point their reputation no longer matters. What matters is that they’re scaling up big time and most Emira drivers will likely have more than 1 car, and are likely Lotus EV buyers like myself as long as they have a positive experience. Another customer in the US posted yesterday that they were an August depositor and just paid the 2nd deposit and ordered their FE spec. One could complain and argue those of us who put in our deposits earlier should get our car first, but that personally doesn’t bother me at all. If I never got an FE in the first place I’d just kick myself for not being earlier. But what’s completely unacceptable is being told and believing that for 7 months without anything to refute it, then they decide to go back on their word. AND having some customers getting a supposed FE discount on full spec who paid later (in the same region). Simply disgusting and I won’t be a Lotus customer if that’s the case. Also I’m sure lots don’t really care about the FE badge but it’s really cool for me as the last ICE car and a weekend toy I had planned keep and cherish my Emira until I’m too old and frail to change a gear, and then I’d just stick it in a garage and look at it .

I really hope they’re looking at the long term business plans and the implications of not doing right by those they’ve entered into a contract with as long term advocates for the brand. Beyond the FE stuff, I’ve wondered for example how there are folks giving deposits today who think they’re getting an Emira in 2023. I may be far off but aren’t they looking at 2024 and potentially 2025 at this point? Why are they still taking deposits and being silent about that, it’s almost as if they think if they ignore a problem it will simply go away. I think they’re wearing too many hats and this is overwhelming for them, they may need to pump the brakes a little bit to make sure they get it right because they only have one chance to do that. To quote Shigeru Miyamoto “A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad”. Please take your time and do right by your customer base. My 2 cents.

Lots of good points here. I'm reminded of the 'python trying to swallow a pig` analogy (3000 NA deposits vs 700 cars). How will this explode once favorable reviews arrive? Supply complaints now will become exponential later.
I'm hoping if Lotus can't honor NA orders by deposit date (peculiarities of US market) they can at least honor pricing for those depositors. Shipping credit?

 

[jmn444]

I understand not reading my book . But that’s not what I said or what happened at all. If that was the case I wouldn’t be upset whatsoever.

But it sounds like you are upset the FE is limited, but it was less limited when they upped it to 700 for north america, and with the exception of the statement that everyone that orders one by march will get one, which is technically still true, they never promised that everyone would get one.

 

[DF_Toronto]

well that was a book haha...

so I got lost in some of that, but you thought there was 500 coming, they raised it to 700 which made your odds better, and because you assumed you were getting an FE but didn't make the cut you are now upset with them?

I feel like they've been mostly on point with everything they've disclosed. I feel like a lot of folks don't understand allocations for vehicle builds and didn't understand they were just getting in line to get an allocation at some point.

In short form, I specially said nothing about first year allocation and do understand how that works.

However both folks at Lotus and the dealership told customers they can opt for an FE when their allocation comes and quoted the price and said they’d be in touch to finalize spec. Which means this was a decision made and communicated by HQ.

They appear to be going back on that now while some customers get it and some don’t within the same region who gave their deposits at a later date. This is 100% not the same as buying other cars in North America where you may get a car sooner or pay more or less depending on the dealership. If that was the case then everything should be handled directly through the dealership and not corporate. I‘ve never bought a Mercedes or other car by signing up through the brand website and then got communications from corporate, it’s always the dealership. Here I have a deposit invoice that specifically says factory order subject to availability based on order of deposits received by Lotus UK.

But it sounds like you are upset the FE is limited, but it was less limited when they upped it to 700 for north america, and with the exception of the statement that everyone that orders one by march will get one, which is technically still true, they never promised that everyone would get one.

 

[EspritGuy]

But it sounds like you are upset the FE is limited, but it was less limited when they upped it to 700 for north america, and with the exception of the statement that everyone that orders one by march will get one, which is technically still true, they never promised that everyone would get one.

The `everyone who wants one` fantasy runs right into the dealer allocation wall.
Many deposits were placed before price was announced, and it only then became known of the 500 NA car tranche. Deposit volume triggered the rise to 700 units, and even that was urged higher.

 

[jmn444]

I guess I never saw where they were telling us that the FE was going to be available for all depositors in future years.

 

[DF_Toronto]

But it sounds like you are upset the FE is limited, but it was less limited when they upped it to 700 for north america, and with the exception of the statement that everyone that orders one by march will get one, which is technically still true, they never promised that everyone would get one.

It’s not the 500 allocation upped to 700 for year one. I never have and don‘t have issue with delivery year and could care less. It’s the promise of FE spec that was widely communicated as available to all regardless of deposit date (to that point) and then potentially waiting up to 7 months after some have been told that to reneg on it. Add to the fact that later depositors in the same region seem to be getting it vs those earlier. Lotus can do what it wants. The point is they’re going to leave a ton of ppl pretty pissed off and that’s a bad move.

 

[jmn444]

where was this widely communicated????

 

[DF_Toronto]

where was this widely communicated????

As I said they didn‘t publish it anywhere but anyone who spoke to Lotus or the dealership about it was widely told this. I was told this by Lotus USA in late July/early August and didn’t post anything about it or tell anyone but my dealership re-iterated it. And then others popped up all over hearing the same. If this was some false rumour that Lotus ppl were spreading there’s no way HQ didn’t know about it months ago and should have nipped it in the bud. I don’t want to misquote @TomE but I think he said the other day in talking to the bosses that they’ve made a change of course and isn’t sure the reason or why they haven’t communicated about it yet and essentially they’ve given the information to the dealerships to provide instead of doing it themselves. Sorry to Tom if that’s incorrect.

 

[Mike-engel]

Can someone please share precisely the date when the limit of 500 first edition cars for North America was announced? I don’t ever remember seeing anything from lotus about this. And the increase to 700 cars to NA? My dealer gave the impression that the 700 car limit simply referred to the number coming with the first tranche, not the spec.

I honestly don’t care about when I get my car (well maybe I care a little). I care more that when I get my car it’s the spec that I want for the price That was represented to me. After all, as a July 2021 deposit holder, I made a commitment to the car with real money, then was quoted a price for a first edition car which all to whom I spoke said I would be getting eventually. No one ever said when I would be getting my car, but they did say what car I would be getting. I can see how many would be upset about this set of circumstances. I think Lotus does need to clean this up, for their own sake. They probably also need to take a look at their dealer network behavior. The world is changing. The need for dealers is starting to seem pretty antiquated. Direct from manufacturer ordering may be the future, and could democratize the process of new car acquisition. Used cars…well that’s another matter.

 

[DF_Toronto]

Can someone please share precisely the date when the limit of 500 first edition cars for North America was announced? I don’t ever remember seeing anything from lotus about this. And the increase to 700 cars to NA? My dealer gave the impression that the 700 car limit simply referred to the number coming with the first tranche, not the spec.

I honestly don’t care about when I get my car (well maybe I care a little). I care more that when I get my car it’s the spec that I want for the price That was represented to me. After all, as a July 2021 deposit holder, I made a commitment to the car with real money, then was quoted a price for a first edition car which all to whom I spoke said I would be getting eventually. No one ever said when I would be getting my car, but they did say what car I would be getting. I can see how many would be upset about this set of circumstances. I think Lotus does need to clean this up, for their own sake. They probably also need to take a look at their dealer network behavior. The world is changing. The need for dealers is starting to seem pretty antiquated. Direct from manufacturer ordering may be the future, and could democratize the process of new car acquisition. Used cars…well that’s another matter.

Exactly, same here. I never took issue with anything allocation related. Other than I assumed initial allocations would be ”FE” but they then communicated that it’s unrelated, if you asked anyone at Lotus or any dealer they seemed to know that FE would not be limited to first allocations, and sent all deposit holders the FE price and told them it will be the first option or you can defer to the base or i4. I thought I heard of a total initial allocation but don’t remember the 500 for NA.

 

[TomE]

As I said they didn‘t publish it anywhere but anyone who spoke to Lotus or the dealership about it was widely told this. I was told this by Lotus USA in late July/early August and didn’t post anything about it or tell anyone but my dealership re-iterated it. And then others popped up all over hearing the same. If this was some false rumour that Lotus ppl were spreading there’s no way HQ didn’t know about it months ago and should have nipped it in the bud. I don’t want to misquote @TomE but I think he said the other day in talking to the bosses that they’ve made a change of course and isn’t sure the reason or why they haven’t communicated about it yet and essentially they’ve given the information to the dealerships to provide instead of doing it themselves. Sorry to Tom if that’s incorrect.

That's right, I posted recently to say I had been told information (and shared it) that was subsequently changed by Lotus about FE spec being available provided you ordered by end March. It had also been told the 500/700 figures were only for 2022 and more would follow in 2023, but that has now been declared to be the entirety. The position had been widely understood by Lotus staff and dealers and so far there has been no explanation of this big change of approach.

I'll respond on your longer post later.

 

[EspritGuy]

Exactly, same here. I never took issue with anything allocation related. Other than I assumed initial allocations would be ”FE” but they then communicated that it’s unrelated, if you asked anyone at Lotus or any dealer they seemed to know that FE would not be limited to first allocations, and sent all deposit holders the FE price and told them it will be the first option or you can defer to the base or i4. I thought I heard of a total initial allocation but don’t remember the 500 for NA.

When you paid a deposit the only Emira represented on the Configurator was the FE. When pricing was announced it again pertained to the FE as the only model available. Who wouldn't think the car they placed a reservation for - at that time - wasn't a FE.

 

[TomE]

Lotus announced 4 variants (V6 FE, i4 FE, V6 Base, i4 Base) and dealers said you could place a deposit and decide on the variant later.

You could do that before the configurator was launched with variant and pricing info. Pricing and options for V6 FE were then added, but an i4 Base price had also been published, along with details of what was in First Edition and what was in Base and options. Many dealers asked depositors to indicate choice of variant, as Lotus wanted an idea on splits, but it wasn't binding at the time it was asked.

So some people had a deposit for an Emira (no variant) and some had indicated a non-binding preference for one variant.

 

[jmn444]

Lotus has an easy out, just say FE's aren't limited, but only option after this allocation is the i4 FE which hasn't yet been priced and all current depositors have to convert to nonrefundable BEFORE pricing is announced so they can be realistic about pricing over the timeframe needed to fill supply. win/win lol

I can kinda see how this viewpoint could be reached now, but still think it's kinda insane to get on a list for a very low production product and think that it's a reasonable expectation that the mfg has to honor pricing and quantity to fill them for everyone when that spans several years.

 

[darkling]

i had no misconceptions that i had a 20% chance of getting a v6 fe I even went to one of the top sellers 60 miles away just for alittle better chance. From what i've gathered there will be i price of about 4 to 5 k for the manual v6 from the i4 on the base price we will know in march. My hope is building the options on a base v6 we are not looking at a 110k car plus fees . That might just put that sour taste in my pocketbook and maybe push me away

 

[Eagle7]

Sadly my photoshop skills aren't up to altering an image from the podcast to a Star Trek theme but maybe you can? I'll gladly get framed copies to them as a gift from the forum

Unfortunately, I'm not a photoshop wizard either. If anyone can do this, Matt would be in the golden yellow shirt, Russell in the blue, and Gav in the red, or I guess Hethel, Seneca and Magma to be politically correct. ;-)

 

[DF_Toronto]

 

[Eagle7]

Something like this with the caption "They want more FE's captain!"

 

[EspritGuy]

Something like this with the caption "They want more FE's captain!"

View attachment 2890

Already set on Stun.....