U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date

[Captain.Kirk]

This is what I estimate for Canadian price in my area:
MSRP $119888
AC Tax 100
Doc Fee 500
Tire Reco 23
Freight/PDI 3000
____
123510
Luxury Tax 10% 12351
135861
HST 15% 20379
_____
Total est. $156240

Glad I ordered just 1 Emira!

 

[Pops68]

Well yes but they still have to compete in a price range determined by whoever they consider as competitors. Some of their costs are probably dollar linked as well. I cannot see an adjustment on price.

I agree. I have a price in my head I'm willing to pay for this shiny object and it's not over $100kUS. You have to be willing to walk away sometimes.

 

[TomE]

His statement was specifically for the first production year V6 FE, since that's the only car they're producing for the entire first year run. It did not apply to the base price. I'm sure they would like to hold the price, but we'll have to see if they can.

That's not correct. In the video Matt said "the price you've been quoted will be the price you'll pay". He didn't say anything about particular models or model years or about it only applying to people with firm orders.

 

[Eagle7]

That's not correct. In the video Matt said "the price you've been quoted will be the price you'll pay". He didn't say anything about particular models or model years or about it only applying to people with firm orders.

So apparently Matt needs to spell it out, word for word for you. Here's the link to the ENTIRE video, instead of the cherry-picked excerpt you pulled out of context.


Matt is SPECIFICALLY talking about delivery of EXISTING CUSTOMER cars, and why there are delays. He's clearly talking about people who already have their deposit/order in, and since the entire first production year of V6 FE's were sold out long ago, this video is for them. He's explaining why EXISTING CUSTOMER cars are experiencing delays, and his statement about "the price you've been quoted will be the price you'll pay for your Emira" clearly applies to them, so they won't have to worry that the delays will result in an increase in price for them. It should be obvious that he's saying they'll hold the price for those who've ordered and been patiently waiting.

If you want to be so contrary as to try and make that be something else, that's up to you, but when you watch the entire video in context, he's clearly talking about their first production cars to customers.

 

[dgrace]

Matt is SPECIFICALLY talking about delivery of EXISTING CUSTOMER cars,

I’m completely on Eagle’s side on this one. It was clear Matt was only promising to hold pricing for cars with finalized orders. Everything else is speculation but my guess is input costs have significantly increased.

 

[Eagle7]

I’m completely on Eagle’s side on this one. It was clear Matt was only promising to hold pricing for cars with finalized orders. Everything else is speculation but my guess is input costs have significantly increased.

Financially the whole world is in a tumble right now. Inflation is biting everywhere. Costs are going up. Hopefully there isn't too much of an increase for the Emira. The base car is already priced low enough to begin with, that even with an increase of a few thousand it will still be quite attractive.

 

[Twin Cam]

So apparently Matt needs to spell it out, word for word for you. Here's the link to the ENTIRE video, instead of the cherry-picked excerpt you pulled out of context.


Matt is SPECIFICALLY talking about delivery of EXISTING CUSTOMER cars, and why there are delays. He's clearly talking about people who already have their deposit/order in, and since the entire first production year of V6 FE's were sold out long ago, this video is for them. He's explaining why EXISTING CUSTOMER cars are experiencing delays, and his statement about "the price you've been quoted will be the price you'll pay for your Emira" clearly applies to them, so they won't have to worry that the delays will result in an increase in price for them. It should be obvious that he's saying they'll hold the price for those who've ordered and been patiently waiting.

If you want to be so contrary as to try and make that be something else, that's up to you, but when you watch the entire video in context, he's clearly talking about their first production cars to customers.

Time will tell, I am a priority customer with a pre launch deposit down. Lotus are aware that I want an i4 BE and they sent me this video along with a letter stating my car would be produced in 2023.Whether we are FE or BE customers we are all facing later delivery dates than first thought. I believe he is addressing all priority customers in the video

 

[Eagle7]

Time will tell, I am a priority customer with a pre launch deposit down. Lotus are aware that I want an i4 BE and they sent me this video along with a letter stating my car would be produced in 2023.Whether we are FE or BE customers we are all facing later delivery dates than first thought. I believe he is addressing all priority customers in the video

That's probably going to be handled on a case by case basis. I would totally support you being included in that promise. I would accept that his promise was to everyone who had made a deposit in 2021, especially those who were pre-reveal, because nobody at that time expected there would be the delays that have happened. They originally thought they were going to have all the U.K. cars delivered by June (when he made the video), and be getting ready to produce the cars for North America. It seems like hardly anything has gone as planned. I truly feel for them, but kudos to all of them for hanging in there, being persistent and still managing to get into production despite all the obstacles.

 

[Captain.Kirk]

That's probably going to be handled on a case by case basis. I would totally support you being included in that promise. I would accept that his promise was to everyone who had made a deposit in 2021, especially those who were pre-reveal, because nobody at that time expected there would be the delays that have happened. They originally thought they were going to have all the U.K. cars delivered by June (when he made the video), and be getting ready to produce the cars for North America. It seems like hardly anything has gone as planned. I truly feel for them, but kudos to all of them for hanging in there, being persistent and still managing to get into production despite all the obstacles.

Also, a further note regarding pre-reveal deposits as I am one. At that (pre-reveal) time my dealer didn’t have the actual prices of the various variants so my sales receipt only states I’ve placed a deposit for $$$ on a special order Emira opposed to also including the final cost amount. My point is that we placed a deposit in good faith and hopefully that will carry some weight when we finally get a price from Lotus USA (they quoted me the CAD prices as far back as March 2022). As well, since I’m in Canada, hopefully being exempt from the new LUX tax based on a pre-reveal deposit. The jury is still out on so many details.

 

[TomE]

So apparently Matt needs to spell it out, word for word for you. Here's the link to the ENTIRE video, instead of the cherry-picked excerpt you pulled out of context.


Matt is SPECIFICALLY talking about delivery of EXISTING CUSTOMER cars, and why there are delays. He's clearly talking about people who already have their deposit/order in, and since the entire first production year of V6 FE's were sold out long ago, this video is for them. He's explaining why EXISTING CUSTOMER cars are experiencing delays, and his statement about "the price you've been quoted will be the price you'll pay for your Emira" clearly applies to them, so they won't have to worry that the delays will result in an increase in price for them. It should be obvious that he's saying they'll hold the price for those who've ordered and been patiently waiting.

If you want to be so contrary as to try and make that be something else, that's up to you, but when you watch the entire video in context, he's clearly talking about their first production cars to customers.

I've watched the entire video, more than once. He says it's a message for Emira customers - I read that as people who have placed a deposit or committed their order. So your definition of "EXISTING" is the same as mine, isn't it? People who have placed a deposit or order. It clearly doesn't mean people who are thinking about placing a deposit, or people who might place a deposit/order in future - they aren't customers yet.

So, what group of cars does that promise apply to? You said only the first year of production V6 First Editions:

His statement was specifically for the first production year V6 FE, since that's the only car they're producing for the entire first year run. It did not apply to the base price. I'm sure they would like to hold the price, but we'll have to see if they can.

He doesn't say that anywhere, or imply it. You've just assumed it.

What about all the people who paid a deposit before this video was released in mid June but are not getting a V6 FE? They got the email too and can reasonably infer this applies to them, even though their delivery might now be in 2022, 2023 or 2024. Lotus have confirmed that to people who have asked. @Twin Cam has confirmed it here too and he will be an i4 in 2023. Why would he be "case by case", when the email and video clearly included him in a large group of deposit holders.

Yes things have changed and inflation pressures, delays, energy costs, exchange rate swings and all manner of things may force Lotus to have to adjust pricing. The point here is, Matt made a commitment to a large group of people in mid June that the prices deposit holders up to that point had been quoted would not increase.

 

[Eagle7]

I've watched the entire video, more than once. He says it's a message for Emira customers - I read that as people who have placed a deposit or committed their order. So your definition of "EXISTING" is the same as mine, isn't it? People who have placed a deposit or order. It clearly doesn't mean people who are thinking about placing a deposit, or people who might place a deposit/order in future - they aren't customers yet.

So, what group of cars does that promise apply to? You said only the first year of production V6 First Editions:



He doesn't say that anywhere, or imply it. You've just assumed it.

What about all the people who paid a deposit before this video was released in mid June but are not getting a V6 FE? They got the email too and can reasonably infer this applies to them, even though their delivery might now be in 2022, 2023 or 2024. Lotus have confirmed that to people who have asked. @Twin Cam has confirmed it here too and he will be an i4 in 2023. Why would he be "case by case", when the email and video clearly included him in a large group of deposit holders.

Yes things have changed and inflation pressures, delays, energy costs, exchange rate swings and all manner of things may force Lotus to have to adjust pricing. The point here is, Matt made a commitment to a large group of people in mid June that the prices deposit holders up to that point had been quoted would not increase.

Did you miss this post just before yours? The one Captain Kirk quoted above?:

"That's probably going to be handled on a case by case basis. I would totally support you being included in that promise. I would accept that his promise was to everyone who had made a deposit in 2021, especially those who were pre-reveal, because nobody at that time expected there would be the delays that have happened. They originally thought they were going to have all the U.K. cars delivered by June (when he made the video), and be getting ready to produce the cars for North America. It seems like hardly anything has gone as planned. I truly feel for them, but kudos to all of them for hanging in there, being persistent and still managing to get into production despite all the obstacles"

I believe that addresses your comment.

 

[TomE]

No, I didn't miss it. I saw you'd changed your position. So now you think he included people who placed deposits in 2021, not just people getting first year V6 FE cars as you'd originally suggested.

But he didn't say it was just 2021 deposits. Nor did he say people would be treated case by case.

We can debate what Matt meant to say. We can have different interpretations of what he did say. We can change our interpretations based on different views being expressed. It seems you've changed yours. That's fine.

What he did say was "customers", which we seem to agree includes people who had placed a deposit or order before mid June when the video was released.

He also said "the price you've been quoted". For people with firm orders it's clear what that means. For everyone else I interpret that to mean the prices given in Lotus media releases and/or shown on your local configurator in mid June - these were prices Lotus had published. For example in the UK that included the V6 FE and i4 FE base cost, option costs and OTR costs. For Base Edition cars it included the base cost but not the costs of the options. In most other regions it was only full pricing for V6 FE and base costs for i4 FE and Base V6/i4 that had been published by then.

 

[Eagle7]

No, I didn't miss it. I saw you'd changed your position. So now you think he included people who placed deposits in 2021, not just people getting first year V6 FE cars as you'd originally suggested.

But he didn't say it was just 2021 deposits. Nor did he say people would be treated case by case.

We can debate what Matt meant to say. We can have different interpretations of what he did say. We can change our interpretations based on different views being expressed. It seems you've changed yours. That's fine.

What he did say was "customers", which we seem to agree includes people who had placed a deposit or order before mid June when the video was released.

He also said "the price you've been quoted". For people with firm orders it's clear what that means. For everyone else I interpret that to mean the prices given in Lotus media releases and/or shown on your local configurator in mid June - these were prices Lotus had published. For example in the UK that included the V6 FE and i4 FE base cost, option costs and OTR costs. For Base Edition cars it included the base cost but not the costs of the options. In most other regions it was only full pricing for V6 FE and base costs for i4 FE and Base V6/i4 that had been published by then.

Geez... now I'm starting to really understand how the people at Lotus must feel.

 

[TomE]

Geez... now I'm starting to really understand how the people at Lotus must feel.

Is that really your best answer? Classy.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Lotus USA just recently confirmed to me via email the CAD pricing as follows:

**********
Hello Kirk,

Thank you for your email, I can confirm the below pricing for the Emira models below for Canada:

Emira I4 base: $96,393
Emira V6 base: $105,918
Emira I4 First Edition: $110,363
Emira V6 First Edition is $119,888
**********

Of course as we all know things can change based on the many factors we chat about on this forum.

That's not correct. In the video Matt said "the price you've been quoted will be the price you'll pay". He didn't say anything about particular models or model years or about it only applying to people with firm orders.

Hi Tom,

While I agree that when Matt says 'the price quoted is the price paid', would mean for any first year vehicle with a published MSRP.(since the first year was sold out and all are deposits from 2021 / before the video) I quoted @Captain.Kirk from his very recent comms with CS on Canadian pricing. They provided this AFTER it was removed from Can/US websites. To me those are quoted/advertised MSRP prices.

So based on this opinion, why do you think the US/CAN websites have removed base price and the i4 F/E price? If it was just for the Base configurator then why would this affect the i4 F/E price on being removed? Also UK and ROW websites have not had these prices removed either. Any opinion or idea as to why?

The only logical answer would be exchange rate difference. Since it is an extreme difference compared to the USD/GBP from 1 year ago. Outside of that, I do not know what it could be. A price increase, looks possible but very controversial based on Matt Windle's comments, and the fact that only the US market seems to be affected.

 

[DerTheDer]

My signed reservation does not even say a price, just says for the Emira, maybe it was on purpose? I would assume if it says MSRP that is subject to change..........

 

[Captain.Kirk]

Hi Tom,

While I agree that when Matt says 'the price quoted is the price paid', would mean for any first year vehicle with a published MSRP.(since the first year was sold out and all are deposits from 2021 / before the video) I quoted @Captain.Kirk from his very recent comms with CS on Canadian pricing. They provided this AFTER it was removed from Can/US websites. To me those are quoted/advertised MSRP prices.

So based on this opinion, why do you think the US/CAN websites have removed base price and the i4 F/E price? If it was just for the Base configurator then why would this affect the i4 F/E price on being removed? Also UK and ROW websites have not had these prices removed either. Any opinion or idea as to why?

The only logical answer would be exchange rate difference. Since it is an extreme difference compared to the USD/GBP from 1 year ago. Outside of that, I do not know what it could be. A price increase, looks possible but very controversial based on Matt Windle's comments, and the fact that only the US market seems to be affected.

I feel for everyone in the Lotus world right now. The current owners, future owners, Lotus dealers, Lotus management and also Lotus employees. The financial and auto worlds are going through unprecedented changes unlike before. We’re all in this together with I’m sure with the same goals in mind. Lack of concrete data only fuels the speculation engine and causes unnecessary stress. We will get through this but the waiting is sometimes unbearable. I would hope that Lotus management and their marketing team find it within themselves to provide some clarity to their customers and dealers so that we all at least can feel valued by being given the latest information via an official update from Lotus. The longer Lotus continues to avoid official communication with all stakeholders the more they lose credibility and hence brand loyalty. Peace to everyone.

 

[Carbuilder]

This is what I estimate for Canadian price in my area:
MSRP $119888
AC Tax 100
Doc Fee 500
Tire Reco 23
Freight/PDI 3000
____
123510
Luxury Tax 10% 12351
135861
HST 15% 20379
_____
Total est. $156240

You're calculating the luxury tax wrong. It will be 20% of the amount over $100,000.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Also want to mention that this is would not the first time a manufacturer adjusted pricing based on exchange rate;

Porsche back in 2011 did the same when the CAN $ hit parity with the USD. (ahh the good old days) So it is possible.

Porsche announces reduced canadian prices

Effective immediately, price drop includes vehicles and options,making Porsche vehicles more accessible than ever before In recognition of the continuing strength of the Canadian dollar, Porsche Canada today announced a major price reduction, dropping base prices on all car lines by an average...

www.guideautoweb.com

 

[Lotustoronto]

My signed reservation does not even say a price, just says for the Emira, maybe it was on purpose? I would assume if it says MSRP that is subject to change..........

Yes, would make sense if the MSRP changed for everyone. Right now we are seeing price removal's only for the North American market. Specifically US/CAN. If it was removed in the UK and ROW than we can safely assume new pricing will be announced. This does not seem to be the case.