U.S. Update: Allocation & Order Date

[nahanni]

You're calculating the luxury tax wrong. It will be 20% of the amount over $100,000.

You're calculating the luxury tax wrong. It will be 20% of the amount over $100,000.

Thanks for the correction. I was using a price on an SL63 quote as a template and 10% of the MSRP fit quite well. Broke the old programmer's rule " never assume".

 

[DerTheDer]

Ill contact my dealer Monday, but I do recall them saying the 93k for mine.

 

[RENDERMAN]

Ill contact my dealer Monday, but I do recall them saying the 93k for mine.

rounding off, It should be $88K for I4 and $94K for the V6 (not exact numbers) with all extras

 

[DerTheDer]

rounding off, It should be $88K for I4 and $94K for the V6 (not exact numbers) with all extras

Yeah, 94k for the FE. I put over 10k down so I would try to get out from under it if Lotus does raise the price to much.

 

[RENDERMAN]

Yeah, 94k for the FE. I put over 10k down so I would try to get out from under it if Lotus does raise the price to much.

Sorry I'm a visual person....

 

[Pops68]

I've watched the entire video, more than once. He says it's a message for Emira customers - I read that as people who have placed a deposit or committed their order. So your definition of "EXISTING" is the same as mine, isn't it? People who have placed a deposit or order. It clearly doesn't mean people who are thinking about placing a deposit, or people who might place a deposit/order in future - they aren't customers yet.

So, what group of cars does that promise apply to? You said only the first year of production V6 First Editions:



He doesn't say that anywhere, or imply it. You've just assumed it.

What about all the people who paid a deposit before this video was released in mid June but are not getting a V6 FE? They got the email too and can reasonably infer this applies to them, even though their delivery might now be in 2022, 2023 or 2024. Lotus have confirmed that to people who have asked. @Twin Cam has confirmed it here too and he will be an i4 in 2023. Why would he be "case by case", when the email and video clearly included him in a large group of deposit holders.

Yes things have changed and inflation pressures, delays, energy costs, exchange rate swings and all manner of things may force Lotus to have to adjust pricing. The point here is, Matt made a commitment to a large group of people in mid June that the prices deposit holders up to that point had been quoted would not increase.

a deposit is not a contract so anything can change. All a deposit does it get you a place in line and create an open purchase order. The thing you want: a car. The thing of substance: a deposit. The thing Lotus offers: a place in line. No agreement on how the car is built or what it will cost, just an open po that says you really want one of these things.. Then once you actually order your car and put down some more earnest money then things become binding with fixed and agreed terms...well except for delivery date as that isn't spelled out in the contract...

 

[Lotustoronto]

a deposit is not a contract so anything can change. All a deposit does it get you a place in line and create an open purchase order. The thing you want: a car. The thing of substance: a deposit. The thing Lotus offers: a place in line. No agreement on how the car is built or what it will cost, just an open po that says you really want one of these things.. Then once you actually order your car and put down some more earnest money then things become binding with fixed and agreed terms...well except for delivery date as that isn't spelled out in the contract...

The question is ; If you place a deposit are you a customer?

 

[Pops68]

The question is ; If you place a deposit are you a customer?

I think it depends on your definition of "customer". You certainly have at least an informal relationship at this point, something like dating, a relationship but no real committment until you are married..

 

[Lotustoronto]

I think it depends on your definition of "customer". You certainly have at least an informal relationship at this point, something like dating, a relationship but no real committment until you are married..

I will have to disagree... If I give you my money, I'm your customer. No question in my mind.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I think the initial deposit equates to Pops definition, but the second deposit is something bigger... you submitted your order, a bigger deposit (non refundable in my case) and confirmation with price then assigned a production month. So definitely a customer at this point.

Why does the first deposit make you less of a customer than the second deposit?

Your first despot is purchasing something of value, which is the ability to move forward and attain an allocation with a second deposit when it becomes available. Without a first deposit, you can not buy an Emira and you are not a customer. When you hand a deposit over you are entering an agreement with the dealer/Lotus, believe me it makes you a customer, legally speaking no question.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Lotus here approved CUSTOMER information - first deposit - believe me you are considered a customer

 

[Lotustoronto]

Ok... let me rephrase. You are a customer, but you are not a customer assigned to anything? No. Nothing more than a list. More in a holding zone. Example... there are many that have submitted deposits for a Porsche 992 GT3RS... doesn't mean you are automatically getting one. Are you a customer, yes... but until you have a commission number passed a certain status (actually assigned a build)... really doesn't mean much. The second to last sentence in your attachment even states it.

How about if I place a deposit for a Macan? Or a Toyota Corolla?

I understand that when people place deposits on extremely limited edition cars that they most likely will NOT end up getting a car and therefore are not treated the same as say the guy placing a deposit for a Macan and waiting for the allocation to pop up. But they are all still customers. My Porsche dealer will not take a deposit for GT cars unless they think they can get you an allocation. I have been there when they refuse to take peoples deposits for a GT3 knowing they will not get one. Some dealers are scumbags. If you put down money you are a customer nonetheless.

 

[Pops68]

sigh, ok. I had lots of "customers" in Real Estate give me a deposit but that wasn't a guarantee they were getting the house. Not until a purchase contract was signed by both parties. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are looking for here, sorry.

 

[Eagle7]

Is that really your best answer? Classy.

ROFL now Tom, you know if anyone can give an in-depth answer it's me. I chose that answer for the sake of expediency. You are an obsessive compulsive personality type, and can be a pain in the butt to interact with sometimes (I'm sure you and some others would say the same about me), so in order for things to not go on and on, which would get neither of us anywhere nor add any value to the forum, I chose to not go that route.

If this will make you feel better, how about this: Matt let us know that costs have gone up due to what's going on in the world, but he promised Lotus would hold to the quoted price, and that was for anyone who had already placed a deposit or an order for an Emira based on that price, up until when he made that video.

 

[Pops68]

Why does the first deposit make you less of a customer than the second deposit?

Your first despot is purchasing something of value, which is the ability to move forward and attain an allocation with a second deposit when it becomes available. Without a first deposit, you can not buy an Emira and you are not a customer. When you hand a deposit over you are entering an agreement with the dealer/Lotus, believe me it makes you a customer, legally speaking no question.

Exactly

 

[Lotustoronto]

IMHO, Matt's message was designated to a specific target customer. Not all first deposit customers to date... but I could be wrong and you could be right. Reality of the matter is we won't know what Matt's definition of customer was at that point and won't until we we see future prices announced for people beyond FE confirmed specced orders.

Then they should not have sent the video to all depositors, including base and i4 F/E world wide. They had a list of the allocated customers and would have been a lot smarter to send the video to the people it was intended for. No other CEO of a major corporation would make that mistake.

I also do not know for certain who he considers "customers" either. I guess we will find out.

 

[Eagle7]

The question is ; If you place a deposit are you a customer?

Placing a refundable deposit indicates you're a potential customer with a strong interest to possibly buy. As a salesperson, you would see that person as a strong prospect, but they don't become a full-fledged customer until an actual order is placed with a down payment commitment that's non-refundable. At that point, you are now a buying customer, not just someone who is interested.

 

[Lotustoronto]

sigh, ok. I had lots of "customers" in Real Estate give me a deposit but that wasn't a guarantee they were getting the house. Not until a purchase contract was signed by both parties. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are looking for here, sorry.

I wasn't looking for anything, I was just pointing out that it's not black and white. I do not know for certain who Matt Windle considers customers. I was simply trying to objectively give how someone can see it from the other way. Especially from a pure legal perspective. Which when you are a managing director of a large corporation making a video recorded speech being presented to thousands of people across the world, those types of communications generally go through a legal review for obvious reasons. It would be a big omission and error if he only was suppose to address V6 F/E customers. That's all I was trying to point out.

 

[Eagle7]

Did they? Maybe they did in the UK, but I don't think they did worldwide. I know they didn't for the USA.

I don't think he did. As everyone on the forum was so rabid for any information, it got picked up and went viral throughout the community immediately. That's the way things work on the internet nowadays.

 

[Lotustoronto]

Placing a refundable deposit indicates you're a potential customer with a strong interest to possibly buy. As a salesperson, you would see that person as a strong prospect, but they don't become a full-fledged customer until an actual order is placed with a down payment commitment that's non-refundable. At that point, you are now a buying customer, not just someone who is interested.

There are many forums members that placed non-refundable deposits at US dealers

In all honesty - 100% certain that when placing a deposit you are a customer LEGALLY... whether you personal don't see it that way, fine, I understand how you would not. But legally, depositors for anything fall under consumer protection laws.