USA/Canada Delivery Thread

[KAR120C]

You can't get regulatory approval on a car if the company's sales as a whole won't meet the fleet average standard, they have to meaningfully comply with the regs (and have an expectation of continued compliance) before anything is approved for sale. Then they have a regulatory filing at the end of each model year that attests to the compliance of the company overall with the fleet average standard, showing the math. If there's a situation where the math doesn't turn out to work as expected at the end of a sale period (based on production numbers, balance of different products sold, market shifts, etc) then they are given an opportunity to explain themselves and correct it.

There's some significant risk to winging it and hoping for the best on this topic, because the penalties for knowingly misrepresenting the expected state of multi-year compliance can be severe, including a per-vehicle-sold penalty that can be significant. That's how VW got nailed with such a huge fine over Dieselgate. I'm actually surprised they weren't banned from sale as a punitive measure. I think it's only because they are such a huge market player that they weren't. A company like Lotus would likely not get that kind of special treatment.

Here's the actual text of the law governing corporate fleet averaging for Tier 3 emissions. It's a bit of a word puzzle, but once you noodle through how the different paragraphs affect each other it's relatively straightforward.

40 CFR § 86.1860-17 - How to comply with the Tier 3 and Tier 4 fleet average standards.

www.law.cornell.edu

Thanks! I’m going to trust that you got it right! If I read the regs I’ll just start missing the ‘60s again.

 

[Eagle7]

@Eagle7 Because you mentioned it in a previous reply, Geely is in China :

Yeah but that's a very specialized application. Add the time it takes to make each of those "pre-fabricated" residences, and all of that isn't going to take just a day. Pre-fabricated stackables is something that's been around. I believe there's a company in Germany that's using a giant 3-D printer to print a house on the spot.

Building what Lotus wants to build will take awhile, plus you have to get through inspection approvals throughout the process.

Interesting video though.

 

[morphious]

Yeah but that's a very specialized application. Add the time it takes to make each of those "pre-fabricated" residences, and all of that isn't going to take just a day. Pre-fabricated stackables is something that's been around. I believe there's a company in Germany that's using a giant 3-D printer to print a house on the spot.

Building what Lotus wants to build will take awhile, plus you have to get through inspection approvals throughout the process.

Interesting video though.

I know, I was just poking a little bit of fun. From reading all your posts, you seem like a very analytical thinker. I work in the commercial and utility construction industry from conception to as-built completion, so I understand.

 

[adefeatedman]

Anyone else see this article: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...orts-cars-first-half-2023-eletre-electric-suv

 

[digilotus]

Anyone else see this article: https://www.theguardian.com/busines...orts-cars-first-half-2023-eletre-electric-suv

Yes it has been posted here: https://www.emiraforum.com/threads/lotus-produce-record-number-of-sports-cars-in-h1-of-2023.3486/

 

[EmiraTO]

Just curious if anyone who deposited in early 2022 is getting a call to lock in builds?

 

[GetawayDriving]

Interesting. CARB certification is primarily emissions. Supposed the Emira complies, they're just waiting in the queue to receive the approval for certification. However if what you're saying about fleet emissions is a factor, that would be an interesting ploy.

The problem with the delays though is the schedule for the Type 135, which is supposed take over the production hall the Emira is using. I know Lotus has applied to greatly expand the facility at Hethel, but even if they get approval, that's still not going to happen over night. Then they have to staff up for the new expansion, and get them up to speed. Now add to that the fact they're running out of time (unless things change regulations-wise) to be able to produce the Emira, and they have a 3 year order book for the FE. They probably don't even know yet how many orders for the base model there will be once the configurator goes live.

Basically, right now the Emira is 'in the way' of their electric plans for the Type 135 and whatever the 4 door sports saloon is going to be. Except the Emira is the best selling model they've ever had, so what do you do with that? If the fully loaded FE is backed up 3 years, what's the base model going to be like since it's likely to be the only Emira under $100k?

Interesting times indeed.

I read it so long ago I no longer remember where but, I believe the 135 and Emira are meant to be built side-by-side in that hall. The implication was that Lotus would be discontinuing the V6 to make room for the 135, but not the Emira in general.

The more delays occur, the shorter the v6 run will be at a minimum. I put a 2nd deposit down a year ago to be in the queue for a "Final edition" of the v6 in case the final version was hotter. I think the V6 may sell out soon, and I think it may sell out before Lotus intends it to.

Will be interesting to see if the V6 demand stays higher than the I4, do they continue to build the less popular model that can be sold in more places, or the more popular model that can be sold in fewer places?

 

[Eagle7]

I read it so long ago I no longer remember where but, I believe the 135 and Emira are meant to be built side-by-side in that hall. The implication was that Lotus would be discontinuing the V6 to make room for the 135, but not the Emira in general.

The more delays occur, the shorter the v6 run will be at a minimum. I put a 2nd deposit down a year ago to be in the queue for a "Final edition" of the v6 in case the final version was hotter. I think the V6 may sell out soon, and I think it may sell out before Lotus intends it to.

Will be interesting to see if the V6 demand stays higher than the I4, do they continue to build the less popular model that can be sold in more places, or the more popular model that can be sold in fewer places?

Interesting thoughts. I just re-watched the A New Dawn video last night, and it's so interesting to see it now compared to when it first came out. In the segments before Goodwood, you can clearly see the apprehension in the body language and face of Carr as he talks about the Emira. Same with Matt. The Emira was unlike any Lotus they'd made before. It was a gamble, and they knew it. They were genuinely worried as to how it would be received. Then in the part when they're at Goodwood, you can see the complete change in Carr with the enthusiasm and excitement on his face as the car was a hit and orders were coming in.

Back before the Goodwood debut, I think Matt had said in an interview they were expecting to produce maybe 500 Emiras a year after the Type 135 came out, so they could do special runs of the Emira, but the production hall would be mostly Type 135. Those plans have changed now. They're going to build another production hall for the electric cars, so the Emira can remain in production where it's at.

It looks like talk about the death of the V6 may have been greatly exaggerated. Toyota has said they aren't switching over to all-electric, so they're going to continue building ICE cars and engines. The regulations Lotus thought were going to prevent them being able to use the V6 have been pushed back, and now concessions are being made for low volume manufacturers beyond that.

According to the latest, the order book for the Emira is now 17,000, and that's the FE models! It's going to be interesting to see what happens when the base models become available to order. Price point is always an issue, and if Lotus can keep a base model version of the Emira under $100k out-the-door, that's likely to be the big seller.

 

[Lotustoronto]

I read it so long ago I no longer remember where but, I believe the 135 and Emira are meant to be built side-by-side in that hall. The implication was that Lotus would be discontinuing the V6 to make room for the 135, but not the Emira in general.

The more delays occur, the shorter the v6 run will be at a minimum. I put a 2nd deposit down a year ago to be in the queue for a "Final edition" of the v6 in case the final version was hotter. I think the V6 may sell out soon, and I think it may sell out before Lotus intends it to.

Will be interesting to see if the V6 demand stays higher than the I4, do they continue to build the less popular model that can be sold in more places, or the more popular model that can be sold in fewer places?

My take - Also what I was told at the factory, they will build both as long as there is demand. I believe the i4 will have the longer life expectancy for two reasons;

1. The i4 can be tuned up for much greater performance - without a huge emissions impact. Also the i4 in other parts of the world will be a bigger seller than the V6. Including Europe!

2. The V6 is the enthusiast’s choice. Yes the demand is there for a couple years of production, no question. But I do not think the V6 demand outside of North America will stay very high. Coupled with the still small dealer network I can see the V6 getting axed once the 135 arrives. Still 3-4 years away I would think? And yes they will most likely do a V6 final edition once 135 is revealed. I4 will continue on until it’s no longer relevant.

The way I look at it - the Emira V6 is already the final edition manual lotus. Special machine in any spec.

 

[Emira2222]

Just curious if anyone who deposited in early 2022 is getting a call to lock in builds?

Let's put it this way... I'm a September 2021 deposit holder (Toronto). I just spoke to my dealer yesterday and they advised that I likely won't be ordering until Q1 2024. I hope that helps.

 

[Need4Speed]

Just curious if anyone who deposited in early 2022 is getting a call to lock in builds?

I put my deposit down in March of 2022 and my dealer told me I would probably be ordering in October.

 

[morphious]

Got a call from my dealer yesterday. Nothing new to report, still expecting deliveries of customer cars December or January.

 

[themeatbaron]

Let's put it this way... I'm a September 2021 deposit holder (Toronto). I just spoke to my dealer yesterday and they advised that I likely won't be ordering until Q1 2024. I hope that helps.

My dealer says soon…. Soon is a relative term lol

 

[JSUNLAND]

Get the Xanax ready as this might send JSUNLAND into a tizzy.

Hahahaha

 

[Callabrator]

FYI, I called Mike over at Lotus of Dallas yesterday. He said they've specced their demo cars and expects to see them in Oct. They're getting both a V6 and an I4! One of them is Hethel Yellow. Donno the color of the other.

 

[Nova]

No updates from CARB, EPA, or NHTSA websites...

Sigh...

 

[Maurice R]

FYI, I called Mike over at Lotus of Dallas yesterday. He said they've specced their demo cars and expects to see them in Oct. They're getting both a V6 and an I4! One of them is Hethel Yellow. Donno the color of the other.

That’s very interesting. V6 and I4 demo’s in October. That would be fantastic it were true.
Cars for NA have not gone into production. There is no US certification yet.
So car’s cannot leave port of entry till certification is approved.
Keep us posted if you hear anything else.

 

[Maurice R]

Oh just a dream if the FE 6 demo is yellow it must be mine. As that’s my spec
They must have mixed the demo with my car.

 

[benjh1028]

I was told today from Charlotte Lotus that demo cars expected late October as well.

 

[DerTheDer]

We want our cars in Oct, not demo cars. My cars supposed to be delivered in Oct but mums the word...